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Sight Extension Tubes

  • 30-05-2009 10:47am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭


    Playing with the idea of trying out a tube, and looking for recommendations. My gun's an Anschutz 1807 with the dovetail block for the foresight, so I'm not sure whether that will restrict or otherwise affect my choice of tubes. Has anyone any suggestions?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭FLOYDSTER


    I am going that way at the mo!, I'm getting one made at an engineering place close to me as I couldnt find anything I liked for the Feinwerkbau!

    Anschutz do a "Terminator" I think which looks good and sounds good with a "pop"!!

    http://www.nealjguns.com/ss_store/Sight-Extensions.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    FLOYDSTER wrote: »
    I am going that way at the mo!, I'm getting one made at an engineering place close to me as I couldnt find anything I liked for the Feinwerkbau!

    Anschutz do a "Terminator" I think which looks good and sounds good with a "pop"!!

    http://www.nealjguns.com/ss_store/Sight-Extensions.html

    Might have a look at that when you get it FLOYDSTER. I was looking at the MEC Strike myself. I was going to get an adjustable foresight, so I'd say I'll get the two together when I have a bit of cash, My foresight is for a block dovetail and won't fit in those low profile grooves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭kay 9


    If ye don't mind me askinng lads, what are the sight extension tubes for and their purpose? Thanks. Excuse my ignorance:d


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    kay 9 wrote: »
    If ye don't mind me askinng lads, what are the sight extension tubes for and their purpose? Thanks. Excuse my ignorance:d

    The longer the sight-base, the more movement is seen, so with good hold, you can add finesse to the aiming process. That's the theory anyway. In addition, they add weight and therefore inertia to the muzzle, reducing recoil signature. A lot of people seem to report improved barrel performance as well, possibly due to a tuning effect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    The downside is that it's another gadget to worry about, and you have to clean them (shotgun cleaning felts and the like seem to be recommended) or every so often you can get a nice afterburner effect as build-ups of particulate crud on the inside of the tube is ignited by the muzzle flash.

    Like everything else, I'm certain that with enough training, they'll work.

    And like everything else, I'm also certain that with enough training, anything will work :D And without that training, nothing works. :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Sparks wrote: »
    The downside is that it's another gadget to worry about, and you have to clean them (shotgun cleaning felts and the like seem to be recommended) or every so often you can get a nice afterburner effect as build-ups of particulate crud on the inside of the tube is ignited by the muzzle flash.

    Like everything else, I'm certain that with enough training, they'll work.

    And like everything else, I'm also certain that with enough training, anything will work :D And without that training, nothing works. :)

    I'm pretty much just trying to refine my hold, as there's no perceptible movement, and alignment is good, so if it tidied up a few of those bogey 9's around the edge, that would be worthwhile. Should do the trick for that from what I'm seeing. Was also going to change to a 22mm Centra Foresight in the same movement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    I'd definitely go with the larger tunnel, but I wonder if the idea of narrowing down the aim like that isn't similar to the idea of using a smaller foresight ring in air rifle - folks using down to something like a 4.0 foresight getting either fantastic tens or bad eight's because either everything was perfect or else something small was out and they overcorrected from a 10.1 to an 8.9 ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Sparks wrote: »
    I'd definitely go with the larger tunnel, but I wonder if the idea of narrowing down the aim like that isn't similar to the idea of using a smaller foresight ring in air rifle - folks using down to something like a 4.0 foresight getting either fantastic tens or bad eight's because either everything was perfect or else something small was out and they overcorrected from a 10.1 to an 8.9 ...

    Yeah, I tried changing down a foresight size (and up one, just in case). Been using a 3.9 indoors, experiments with a 3.8 led to blurring and fuzy sight picture, while 4.1 meant too much white visible, eye got tired quickly. Thinking trying something like a 4.8 with a good 12 inches or so of tube and a 22mm tunnel would possibly yield better results.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Or you could try a 4.2 with an ND (gray) filter to cut down the light intensity so the eye doesn't tire so fast....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Sparks wrote: »
    Or you could try a 4.2 with an ND (gray) filter to cut down the light intensity so the eye doesn't tire so fast....

    Interesting idea. Will play with that next time I'm at the range. With light like we've been having lately, it's a good time to test filters. Last time I was out, my ususal yellow wasn't cutting the mustard.

    What are thoughts on the tube in terms of improving barrel performance actually? Improved inertia and recoil signature.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Not sure about barrel performance. A removable tube's just another variable you have to learn to set correctly - which isn't to say you can't do that, just that it's adding more time to your training
    Way I figure it is this - to be good at anything (as in, an expert), you're looking at doing it over and over again, a set number of times. For argument's sake, lets say that to be an expert at 50m rifle, you need to fire 10,000 rounds (the number may not be 10,000, but that's not the point here).

    That's not 10k rounds all fired willy-nilly. That's 10k rounds fired in a set shot routine. At the end of that, your shot routine should be utterly consistent.

    Now, here's the rub - change that shot routine and you'll need to shoot it a number of times to re-develop that consistency and expertise. Maybe the number won't be 10,000, maybe you only need to fire 5,000 rounds this time. But nonetheless - you have to go fire them. Which means that if you have a "not perfect, but does the job" shot routine, changing it requires a significant degree of investment of time and training. It also means that if you've got a shot routine going, and you're not seeing the results after two or three matches, you've only shot 300 rounds or so - so you're not near the 10,000 number. Meaning that if you chop and change stuff every time you have a bad match, you might be doing more harm than good.

    The way I think of it, and the way I was taught to think of it by Matt and Geoff, is that you get the basics right - zero position, sight alignment, sight picture, triggering. Get those right, go shoot ten thousand shots with them right, then worry about things like wind, light, batch testing ammo, headspace gauging, etc, etc, etc. those things earn you a point or two in a match (okay, with wind, a point or two in a shot in dodgy conditions - but if you just shoot in the same conditions, it comes down to a few points in a match).

    Zero, alignment, picture & triggering though - they get you 9 to 10 points per shot.


    Now, if I could only manage to do so myself well enough that M&G didn't lose more hair when watching me shoot ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Yeah, still waiting on the new jacket to come back, and when it does, I'm doing a fundamental setup to my perfect comfort and satisfaction, then giving that serious range-testing time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭FLOYDSTER


    Tried my new tube at the weekend, although it wasnt a great weekend weather wise for testing anything! lol:D
    The guys who made it really did do a great job as I was only a few clicks out when fitted compared to the standard tube which comes on the Feinwerkbau!
    I need a calm day to give it a good testing but found no real difference in groups at the weekend, I upped the foresight size to a 4.0 ring size 1.3 and will try moving it a little closer to me over the next week or so and note the results!;)

    On another note I saw the disadvantage of tubes as Leslie had a disaster and was unable to shoot the comp when because of some sort of alignment issue couldnt get the shots down on the target!!, he ran out of clicks and had to give up!
    All sorted now though!, and this is one of the reasons I wanted a fit the same as the original and not a clamped system!;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Sight extension tubes - the pros and cons:

    Pros
    • Increases 'wobble' :), so improves your hold.
    • Makes rearsight adjustment clicks slightly finer
    • Can improve your foresight clarity
    Cons
    • Can slow down sighting in process as attachment can be variable.
    • Foresight becomes smaller and harder to centre.
    • Foresight aperture diameter needs to increase.
    • Increased 'sail' area so rifle becomes more unstable in wind.
    • Can affect visibilty of foresight depending on eyesight.
    • Can adversely affect recoil characteristics of rifle.


    I think that covers everything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    Thanks for the list there rrpc. I think I'll hold on for the end of the summer and then make the call dependent on my progress and whether there's money in the kitty.


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