BER Data Review Audit No. 10

Dubliner81

Hi All,


Long time reader, first time poster....I need some advice. I got the below email requesting that I submit my written quote to the client for a BER. To be honest this is not something I have been doing all the time due to the impracticality of it as it would slow the business considerablly. I do however have a website where it is very clear of the cost and that the price is inclusive of all costs, I also outline this to any potential client over the phone. As I have not provided a written quote what will happan? Does anyone have any expeirence with this situation? Thanks for your help, greatly appreiceated.





Dear Assessor

We are writing to notify you that, in accordance with BER Assessors Code of Practice and in line with S.I. No. 666 of 2006, BER Assessment Number ****** has been selected for a Data Review Audit10 which relates to your quotation to your client detailing BER services as per you obligations under Section 11 of the Code of Practice.

Please send a copy of your quotation to the client for the above BER detailing (i) a description of the proposed cost (including VAT and expenses) for such services including all details of any circumstances where the client may incur additional costs, VAT or expenses and (iii) a disclosure of relevant business interests if applicable.

Please submit by the ****, in order to show of your compliance with Section 11 of the Code of Practice.

You can submit this data in electronic format to this email address or by post to QA Manager, SEI, Glasnevin, Dublin 9. The findings of this audit may be used to initiate additional audits by SEI.

Many thanks in advance for your co-operation.


Kind regards,

QA Manager
BER Scheme

SilverBER

Dubliner,
I have never issued a written quote to a client and I don't ever intend to unless they specifically ask me to. The nature of this business has become so unprofessional that everything seems to be handled by text, email or phone call. The only paperwork I bring with me is the survey form, a sketch pad and an invoice.
I find it extremely ironic that SEI have sent something like this to you given that they are presiding over a shambolic system that militates against the very ethics that the system is designed to protect.
I don't know about you but in my case I find that 99% of the assessments I have done to date were undertaken with a new tenant in place watching what I am doing. I don't get the opportunity to issue a written quote as the landlord usually leaves the BER to the last minute possible to order it to be done - I guess it is because they are waiting for the deposit and first months rental so that they have the money to pay for the BER - and in most cases I don't even get to meet the landlord as the only contact I have with them is either by email or text. I then email the cert, advisory report and invoice to them and they mail a cheque to me by return.
I think SEI would be better employed in focusing on enforcement, registering assessors who are qualified, requiring proper indemnity cover, suggesting a sustainable fee structure and on supplying a more interactive support system for registered assessors than on this ridiculous nonsense about written quotes and badgering honest assessors who are labouring to make a stupid system work for them.
I met a young lad the other day who was basically touting for work as an assessor. He looked like someone who was at his wits end. He had spent all the money on training, registering with SEI, purchasing blower door equipment and infra red equipment he even had a new van with his name and stuff on the side. He has been registered with SEI since February and done 6 assessments for €170 each. I asked him what he worked at before he was a BER assessor and he said 'the building game', on further enquiry he told me that he wasn't a tradesman but he 'could do a bit of everything'. I felt awful for this lad but who is at fault for his, and many others, situation?
If it was me, Dubliner, I would send the SEI QA Manager a snotty letter or email pointing out the vagaries that they perpetuate in the system. That way they cannot say that you ignored them.

No6

Its part of the code of practice to issue a written quote and get a accecptance of terms and conditions form signed, there are templates on the SEI website. I don't always get them issued first but I always make sure they get issued and the accecptance form signed and returned to me, usually with the payment. Just because them system is rubbish SilverBER it dosnt to my mind mean you or I should be we should be as professional as we can at all times much and all as we'd like to beat SEI around the head till they get some sense!!

sinnerboy

I got this one too . In my case BER was part of the overall architectural service - so no BER specific quote.

Happy client so I can issue a retrospective "quote" I suppose. Waste of time though - SEI could be doing many many more usefully things

Pkiernan

The standard Letter of Engagement, issued by SEI for assessors, has an area left blank for you to insert the price.

I would imagine that this would suffice, as SEI drafted this document for our use.

sinnerboy

Will certainly use that in future PK to have to hand for future audits .

I did not in this case for the reasons posted before.

Dubliner81

Thanks for all your replys, very helpfull, I understand I can fill in the figure or use a retrospective quote, but what if I was honest with them, what would they say?

Thanks again

Dubliner81

sydthebeat

Dubliner81 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replys, very helpfull, I understand I can fill in the figure or use a retrospective quote, but what if I was honest with them, what would they say?

Thanks again

Dubliner81

i think both you and they know the answer to that question....
take the easy road....

ill guarantee that this auditing scheme is only a PR exercise by SEI to give the scheme more credibility.... ill bet you will see propaganda in the coming months saying stuff like 'every BER assessor has gone through the auditing process and 100% passed, showing that the training and professionalism of the assessors are of the hoighest order'.....

SilverBER

They seem to be breaking down the audit procedures into segments. I was asked for the photographs that I took of a house I recently surveyed to show that it was a mid terrace dwelling.
I always take photographs during a survey but what if I didnt? I could simply go to a similar property and take the required photographs and email them over to SEI. The way these audits are being done renders the system questionable at best. What ever happened to a registered body performing site visits to audit registrants?

Count1

Dubliner81 wrote: »

Thanks for all your replys, very helpfull, I understand I can fill in the figure or use a retrospective quote, but what if I was honest with them, what would they say?

Thanks again

Dubliner81

Interesting problem Dubliner. I have looked up more on the SEI website and attach a link you might find useful:

http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/Administration_for_BER_Assessors/

But here is the important bit ( in my mind!) I have highlighted the wrod "recommends"...............

"Templates



The BER Assessor's Code of Practice recommends that BER Assessors make a written offer of service, including price and any circumstances where the client may incur additional cost, and to obtain the client's written acceptance of this offer, except in cases where it is impractical to do so. To assist BER Assessors in discharging this obligation a template has been prepared for use by any BER Assessor who might consider it to be a useful basis on which to contract with their clients. To view or download the Letter of Engagement templates, please click here for New Dwellings and here for Existing Dwellings."

brianmacl

Count1 wrote: »

The BER Assessor's Code of Practice recommends that BER Assessors make a written offer of service

Good point, if you quote over the phone or by mail there is a contract by implication as soon as the owner either allows you into the property or organises access. so why this impractical written offer.

I get loads of my jobs through a really good estate agents, they arrange access for me, often the landlord pays after I discuss terms with them. but I never meet them so how can I get them to sign the document. I know the agent won't PP as they are worried about any poosible litigation after all the rubish put out by the IAVI

sydthebeat

most of these audits are simply to see if good practise is being followed.

Ok, so many people give a quotation by phone or mail and sometimes may never even meet the client, but is that 'good practise'?? Isnt in both the assessor and the clients interest to have a written outline of services seen and signed by both parties?

could anyone doing a survey without taking photos be considered good practise?

personally i think these are simply a PR exercise created to make it as easy as possible for assessors to pass the audit, so that SEI look good when the publish auditing figures....

take the easy way out and give them what they want... thats what im going to do...

brianmacl

sydthebeat wrote: »

sometimes may never even meet the client, but is that 'good practise'?? Isnt in both the assessor and the clients interest to have a written outline of services seen and signed by both parties?

Therer is a difference between taking pictures while at the property as evidence of your findings and meeting your client in person and having them sign a contract that is there anyway by implication.

Next week I am doing a BER in Dublin for a guy in Donegal should I drive to Donegal to meet him or should he come down to meet me? and who's interest does this serve?

sydthebeat

brianmacl wrote: »

Therer is a difference between taking pictures while at the property as evidence of your findings and meeting your client in person and having them sign a contract that is there anyway by implication.

Next week I am doing a BER in Dublin for a guy in Donegal should I drive to Donegal to meet him or should he come down to meet me? and who's interest does this serve?

my post was to outline that fact that people may not meet, i agree with you.... i was just asking if that was good practise?

however, you do not have to meet to get something signed by both parties??

mail, email or fax can be used....

brianmacl

I was chating to a supervisor in SEI and checked with him, anyway he doesn't beleive that the instruction is that important unless you try sell ad on services or there may be a conflict of interest. But I will be sending out a mail from now on at the botom it will say something along the lines off. the usual please reply to show that you accept these terms but if you do not reply but if you or someone acting on your behalf allow or arrange access to the property this will be considered an agreement by implication.

greener&leaner

Have BER said that the contract has to be counter-signed etc.?

Email will count as "issuing a written quote"
If you're emailing them about anything, just make sure to stick your final quote into one and attach the extra letters/additional costs/codes of practice/terms and conditions etc.

Even if they don't email you back, it's done, and if everything ever goes horrifically wrong with a client, it's an excellent arse covering tool.

If you're communicating by phone, either ask for an email address and send it through or do yourself up a tick box check list. Write down everything you need to go over with a client and make a few copies. Then when you're on the phone go through the list, tick them off and sign it yourself and date it at the end. For completeness you can copy it and enclose a copy with the clients final report.

*Note - tactics described are developed based on experience with non-irish organisations operating similar schemes and having a similar obsession with paperwork. May not entirely apply to SEI.