Those new Irish Rail trains

Sully

So I'm on one of the new trains for the first time, and besides the design and the automatic in service announcements, what's new? Does it go any faster? It seems a lot smoother travel.. Nice enough interior but what else?

Also, what's the hold up rolling it out?

KC61

Sully wrote: »

So I'm on one of the new trains for the first time, and besides the design and the automatic in service announcements, what's new? Does it go any faster? It seems a lot smoother travel.. Nice enough interior but what else?

Also, what's the hold up rolling it out?

Deliveries and commissioning...there are now 29 3-piece sets in service, and 10 6-piece sets. To go in this tranche of deliveries there are 5 6-piece sets and 2 more 3-piece sets, but the latter have to be extensively rebuilt due to damage in transit and won't be back in Ireland until 2011 I understand. Also in 2011, 17 more 3-car sets will be delivered.

In terms of time taken to roll out, each set has to be tested over 10,000 miles before it can go into revenue earning service. It cannot simply hit the rails and start in service. This usually takes 3-4 months.

The units have faster acceleration and deceleration than the locomotive hauled trains, but have not got a higher top speed than existing trains. Remember that speed is dictated also by the track and permanent way - so for many lines trains already run at the maximum speed possible for that route. Rail timetables are generally only changed once a year, so with the next timetable change (due in September at the moment) we should then see the full benefit of the faster acceleration/deceleration of the units as the timetables on the Limerick, Galway, Mayo Tralee, Waterford and Rosslare routes are updated for these trains.

The trains do not require the presence of a guard on board, so the onboard staff are now a driver and ticket checker (although the latter is not required to operate the train).

From www.irishrail.ie, some of the features of the Intercity railcar fleet include:

Automatic PA and information display systems
Electronic seat reservation displays for web bookings
Fully air-conditioned
Internal CCTV system for improved security
Sleek carriage design
Advanced safety features throughout

In a new departure for Iarnród Éireann’s Intercity fleet, the new trains are railcars, with integral engines in each carriage – this delivers greater reliability and performance, as well as operational flexibility. Trains are in 3-car and 6-car sets, with seating for 192 customers and 378 customers respectively.

Victor

Sully wrote: »

Also, what's the hold up rolling it out?

Waterford was also about the last route to get the trains.

KC61

Victor wrote: »

Waterford was also about the last route to get the trains.

There are now only a handful of locomotive hauled trains left, all on the Galway and Mayo routes.

These and the Rosslare services will be the last to be converted.

Sully

Waterford only has it twice a day, the rest are old trains. Iv noticed the faster acceleration alright, how much time should that cut off the timetable? I assume that if it arrives at a station quicker now it will wait till its due departure till the new timetable? Will we ever see a faster train service in ireland?

Overhead displays off here, I assume its only used for reserved seats and not for seat numbers? Neither really benefit the customer, bar the design. No power sockets for laptops etc. Tho I'm not sure that's a biggy.

alpha2zulu

Waterford only has it twice a day

Over the past couple of weeks, all Waterford-Dublin services have migrated to the new trains.

I assume that if it arrives at a station quicker now it will wait till its due departure till the new timetable?

Yes unfortuently until at least the next timetable arrives. Amorning/evening servoce that bypasses Kilkenny on the loop line a few miles outside kilkenny could easily knock 20minutes off a Waterford-Dublin journey Their schedules have a fair bit of slack in them as it is to keep the statistics looking good!

The only gripe I would have about them is the endless stream of announcements in Irish/English before and after each station...not a hope of catching 40winks:mad:, otherwise they are excellent machines in my opinion.

KC61

Sully wrote: »

Waterford only has it twice a day, the rest are old trains. Iv noticed the faster acceleration alright, how much time should that cut off the timetable? I assume that if it arrives at a station quicker now it will wait till its due departure till the new timetable? Will we ever see a faster train service in ireland?

Overhead displays off here, I assume its only used for reserved seats and not for seat numbers? Neither really benefit the customer, bar the design. No power sockets for laptops etc. Tho I'm not sure that's a biggy.

There are no old trains remaining on the Waterford route, the last was converted last week. All services on the route are now operated by 22000 Class railcars.

Yes you are correct - trains obviously must wait until the scheduled departure time.

Journey times should improve by about 2-3 minutes per stop (excluding Kilkenny where the driver still has to change ends), but on single track lines if the number of services increase then these improvements can be eaten into by additional recovery time at passing points (to allow for one train passing the other one usually has extra time built into the schedule).

Real improvements in journey times may be possible on the Cork route and on other routes using part of that line, but this and any other improvements are dependant on the track and infrastructure being upgraded.

There are laptop power sockets at every row of seats on the new railcars.

corktina

KC61 wrote: »

.

In terms of time taken to roll out, each set has to be tested over 10,000 miles before it can go into revenue earning service. It cannot simply hit the rails and start in service. This usually takes 3-4 months.



QUOTE]



WHY?

Sully

So a couple of mins per stop, prob 10mins earlier to dublin for example.. The new trains, no moving engine from one end over, right?' surely it doesn't take that long to walk from one end of the train to the other? Also, have they improved first class?

Just got held up before kildare, no train passed our way but I assume there was decent reason. Track beside the one I'm on looks unused but up further looks new. Lots of that around I guess. Irish rail don't seem to invest much in rail lines.

What happens to the old trains? Also, I see no power sockets.. Where are they?

fitzyshea

Sully wrote: »

So a couple of mins per stop, prob 10mins earlier to dublin for example.. The new trains, no moving engine from one end over, right?' surely it doesn't take that long to walk from one end of the train to the other? Also, have they improved first class?

Just got held up before kildare, no train passed our way but I assume there was decent reason. Track beside the one I'm on looks unused but up further looks new. Lots of that around I guess. Irish rail don't seem to invest much in rail lines.

What happens to the old trains?

They get scrapped or sold on.

pointofnoreturn

More info on wikipedia IE Class 22000
€79 million the cost and don,t go any faster, look at the older class 200s
Class 22000 160km/h
Class 201 161km/h

and most of the time they cant reach these speeds because of the rail line, poor rail management etc.. single lines on most routes

first time i saw these new trains when when i came back from travelling around europe, was on the ICE and IC all did a min of 200km/h and about half the price with a rail card (bahn card)
So i dont understand what IR are doing they just dont have any competition the also major problem with our rail network is the gaude of the track is larger then europe and most of the UK so it makes it expensive to do anything, it would be nice if we could have years ago buy all the old TGVs for example.

but any further improvements will cost huge!!

i dont take the train anymore in ireland

Sully

I see no power sockets btw, where are they on the seats?! Shame our infrastructure for rail is so poor but I assume no competition could use the current lines if they wanted?

corktina

Sully wrote: »

Just got held up before kildare, no train passed our way but I assume there was decent reason. Track beside the one I'm on looks unused but up further looks new. Lots of that around I guess. Irish rail don't seem to invest much in rail lines.

kildare is the heart of a widening project currently, those unused lines are two NEW lines in addition to existing two to increase capaciity. Irish Rial DO you see invest in rail lines, they just arent very good at telling people...Id say they'd be finished if they werent having to waste money and resources on the WRC

Sully

Iv seen the new lines but its back before it, grass growing over it and looks like it hasn't been used in ages. Same as you leave Waterford. These widening and new tracks I assume still have the old problems?

corktina

oh you mean a disused siding then?

monument

Sully wrote: »

I see no power sockets btw, where are they on the seats?!

Under the tables.

Zoney

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

the also major problem with our rail network is the gaude of the track is larger then europe and most of the UK so it makes it expensive to do anything, it would be nice if we could have years ago buy all the old TGVs for example.

but any further improvements will cost huge!!

I think the main thing making it more expensive in Ireland are the inflated costs generally here in Ireland that the government have allowed (e.g. encouraging the housing boom - for one thing it meant people all looked for more wages, making the costs problem worse). Second for railways here, we are talking small fry orders - other European operators, many of them would surely be buying in bigger quantities - economies of scale and bigger choice of suppliers.

As far as I know, the extra cost of fitting different bogies (what the wheels are attached to) is not a significant factor even if it is a small bit of extra cost. Our gauge may not be common, but there are other places with different gauges - so rolling stock suppliers accommodating different gauges isn't unusual.

L1011

Zoney wrote: »

As far as I know, the extra cost of fitting different bogies (what the wheels are attached to) is not a significant factor even if it is a small bit of extra cost. Our gauge may not be common, but there are other places with different gauges - so rolling stock suppliers accommodating different gauges isn't unusual.

Its a far more major impedement for powered units (engines, railcars) than it is for trailer units (the Mk4's basically). We ended up with the very unsuitable 201 class locos due to the wider gauge.

Ham'nd'egger

MYOB wrote: »

Its a far more major impedement for powered units (engines, railcars) than it is for trailer units (the Mk4's basically). We ended up with the very unsuitable 201 class locos due to the wider gauge.

Not so on the size. The 201 Class is just a variation of the generic EMD JT42 generic loco. In slightly adapted styles, it has been supplied all over the Europe as the Series 66, the UK alone having about 400 of them where it is known as the Class 66. Some models have variations on them such as engine size and power, traction motors and gear rations but the base design and dimensions are standard; the 201's were the first JT42's built, explaining the lower spec over newer models. Adapting bogies isn't much of a expense, you are only talking of 3 inches per wheel.

EMD are actually adapting the design due to the UK having a narrower loading gauge than Ireland or parts of Europe so if anything, Irish Rail can opt for European specced wider stock over UK stock; the Enterprise and mark 4 stock being good examples in term of this.

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

kildare is the heart of a widening project currently, those unused lines are two NEW lines in addition to existing two to increase capaciity. Irish Rial DO you see invest in rail lines, they just arent very good at telling people...Id say they'd be finished if they werent having to waste money and resources on the WRC

Really some of you anti-WRC campaigners are as bad as the zealots promoting the project! It used to be blame the Brits and 800 years of oppression for everything that's wrong with Ireland and now it's blame the WRC for everything else that's wrong on CIE/IE. I can't for the life of me see what the pace of the Kildare fourtracking has got to do with the WRC and the financing of the two projects is entirely seperate. Incidentally, Irish Rail do not invest in anything - it is we the impoverished taxpayers that pick up the tab for the various projects and, indeed, the monumental losses incurred by CIE/IE through their mismanagement of the railways.

corktina

Really? the WRC doesnt use any management resources then that could be used elsewhere? or manpower? or equipment? Oh well I stand corrected then

Judgement Day

Yep. If the WRC wasn't being rebuilt we would have Metro North, the Interconnector and the Newmarket branch built by now.

Run_to_da_hills

I was passing through Crusheen yesterday, one of the towns that will be served by the Western Corridor, saw a promotional poster depicting a 22000

Judgement Day

Why am I not surprised? We have had public timetables for the Sunny South East with photos of MkIIIs and 201-class locos for years now. I have raised it, amongst many other things, with the CEO of Irish Rail but you would get more sense from Bosco! Still if it wasn't for the WRC the Connolly/Rosslare line would be quadruple track with TGVs by now.

trellheim

the 22s are ok but no real advance. The main issue I've seen is major overcrowding when they stick 1x3 car units on peak routes like Dublin-Limerick at peak hours

Zoney

trellheim wrote: »

the 22s are ok but no real advance. The main issue I've seen is major overcrowding when they stick 1x3 car units on peak routes like Dublin-Limerick at peak hours

I can imagine. I was impressed at the efficiency of IÉ in using a 1x3 car unit on a non-peak Limerick-Dublin service I took recently, but I hadn't thought about the instances where they inappropriately schedule such a train (presumably more to do with availability of units rather than misjudging passenger numbers).

I find the seats on the 22000s rather uncomfortable and the ride quality poorer, but the trip generally is more pleasant as you aren't overheated and oxygen-deprived the way you were with Mk3s, and the bright clean decor is condusive to a more pleasant trip. Also I do like having power for the laptop.

Sully

I had a chat with the driver at KK heading to Waterford. He says the 10mins for the delay at KK will be removed on the new timetable but that the acceleration is slower then the old train so no other reduction timewise. There was no engine running at the front, he said there were 3 running elsewhere on the train.

fitzyshea

Sully wrote: »

Iv seen the new lines but its back before it, grass growing over it and looks like it hasn't been used in ages. Same as you leave Waterford. These widening and new tracks I assume still have the old problems?

Your talking about sidings that have been there for years. The new lines dont have grass growing over them. What do you mean by old problems? Once the Kildare Rail Projetct is complete, there will be an increased service of commuter and general train services.

Judgement Day

And don't forget pigs will fly too!

Get a grip, this is CIE were talking about. :mad:

www.irishrailways.blogspot.com

noelfirl

Oh good grief, why would they bother putting in the KRP if they didn't intend on using it? Even in the current economic downturn, there inevitably will be usage for the quad tracked sections eventually. I know there are problems and inadequacies in IE and the perpetual incompetence of much of the middle and upper management, but this continuous whinging and doom mongering over every little thing they do is starting to drive me mad.