KI Legal Diploma

The Advocate

I am considering applying for the Diploma in King's Inn. In the experience of those who have undertaken it or are familiar with it, how hard is it to combine with a full time job? I see there are evening lecture four days a week, but how long for and when do they run? Also, do the end of year exams take part during 9-5 working hours?

impr0v

4 days a week? It used to be five. Most people doing the diploma will be working at the same time, and some outside of Dublin. As for how hard it is, I guess that depends on the person. It means kissing every evening good bye for two years, which can get annoying, but you can always skip a few. The term times will be on the KI website.

Yes, the exams take place during the day. usually over the course of two weeks. Do a search, there have been plenty of questions asked about this course here.

The Advocate

I've been trawling through the forum but can't find all the information I'm looking for. I work about an hour away from Kings Inns and don't finish work until 5. The website indicates that lectures start at 5:45 from Monday to Thursday. I know attendance is compulsary but are they flexible with not always making it quite on time provided you're always there?

impr0v

They used to start at 6:45, I think, 5 days a week, so there's obviously been a regime change. They say attendance is compulsory, but in reality you can skip a large proportion of classes if you're so inclined and are capable of catching up from books or copied notes yourself. Or you used to be able to at least. However, individual lecturers may get annoyed if you're habitually late.

Tutorials used to start at 5:30 or so, if i remember correctly, so you should check out the story with them, perhaps with the King's Inns directly.

The Advocate

impr0v wrote: »

They used to start at 6:45, I think, 5 days a week, so there's obviously been a regime change. They say attendance is compulsory, but in reality you can skip a large proportion of classes if you're so inclined and are capable of catching up from books or copied notes yourself. Or you used to be able to at least. However, individual lecturers may get annoyed if you're habitually late.

Tutorials used to start at 5:30 or so, if i remember correctly, so you should check out the story with them, perhaps with the King's Inns directly.

As I say, I have no trouble giving up any amount of evenings but it's getting there on time that will be problematic. I will contact them directly but I was just wondering if anyone here knew. Thanks for the responses, impr0v.

stringy

just finished first year.

5:45 to 8 mon to wed
5:45 to 9 thurs
9:15 to 12:30 every second saturday

it's tough going, a huge amount for work

with 4000 word assignment due every month

and work to be done for tutorials every week

huge amount of reading.

if you're prepared to work you'll do fine but it is tough going.

half work fulltime, some dont work at all and some work p/t

The Advocate

Stringy, how strict are they on attendance? Do many people arrive a bit late within the first 20/30 mins?

stringy

some people arrive late but attendance is mandatory, you have to sign in. I think they may change this next year.

However I wouldn't plan on arriving 20/30mins late every day as you'd miss half the first lecture, surely you could make an effort to arrive on time, start work 30 mins earlier?

the exams are 9.30 - 12.30 for 2 weeks, 6 exams, mon, wed, fri.

the class is a mix of all ages and backgrounds, quite diverse, the lectures are interesting and the tutorials engaging. There is a lot, I mean a lot of extra reading to do, so be prepared for this.

The Advocate

stringy wrote: »

However I wouldn't plan on arriving 20/30mins late every day as you'd miss half the first lecture, surely you could make an effort to arrive on time, start work 30 mins earlier?

There's pretty much no flexibility in my job in terms of getting out any earlier than 5.

the exams are 9.30 - 12.30 for 2 weeks, 6 exams, mon, wed, fri.

the class is a mix of all ages and backgrounds, quite diverse, the lectures are interesting and the tutorials engaging. There is a lot, I mean a lot of extra reading to do, so be prepared for this.

I appreciate the heads up. Sounds challenging but rewarding.

Curunina

I completed the Kings Inns Diploma 3 years ago, and over the entire two years I attended a sum total of 6 lectures. I spent 2 weeks before exams studying very hard, and passed without any issues at all.
I received one slightly cross letter (in my first year) reminding me that attendance was mandatory, but nothing ever came of it.
I went to registration both years, and got my ID card and internet log in details, and submitted my 2 land law essays by hand. They actually posted the land law essay questions to my home address.

I know several other people who completed the diploma in the same way - in fact, I know one who has just completed 2nd year exams having lived in New York for the past 2 years.
Neither I nor any of these people ever asked anyone to sign in for us.

The Diploma is as hard as you make it. If you want to do it out of an interest in law, I suggest doing a proper law degree part time elsewhere. The Diploma is not even HETAC accredited.
If, like me, you just wanted to get into the Inns BL programme, I reccommend not letting it ruin your life.

stringy

the programmes was restructured last year so it differs from what was done 3 years ago, there are 9 assignments to be completed. Notes manuals are handed out at each class so if you don't turn up you don't get the printed notes.

Now you can not go and be ok, there is/was a guy in my tutorial group who gave up going but sat some of the exams and handed in the assignments, so it'll be interesting to see how he does. You do get sent letters reminding you that attendance in compulsory and then you'll get called in for a meeting

But to pay 5k to do it and then not bother going seems a bit crazy, especially if you are interested in doing it!

Personally I think if you're going to do it, you should be committed 100% to doing it, especially if you're paying 10k for a 2 year diploma

Curunina

Hey - I'm glad you seem to have enjoyed the Diploma, Stringy, and I'm not being smart, but I do know someone who finished 2nd year this year and never attended a lecture.

As far as I know she got the manuals somehow, whether she popped up there to collect, or had someone else do it, I'm not sure, but there were no cross letters at all.

The thing with the Diploma is that it is basically a KI money-making racket. I don't think that paying them 10K is a good enough reason to give up my evenings for 2 years to listen to lectures on topics that I can just read about.

To me, the Diploma was just a hurdle that had to be climbed to qualify as a Barrister, and all I am saying is that the OP shouldn't let herself be put off by the hours etc, if the only reason she is doing it is also to get into the BL programme.

stringy

i agree, it is simply what you need to get in to the BL if youre a non law grad, but I just feel if youre going to do it, you should try your best to attend, and get value for the money you're spending, in addition to benefiting from the lectures and tutorials so you have a better chance in the exams and when you do the BL.

OP I woudn't worry about the time issues, I'm just trying to advise how you can get the best from it

The Advocate

Allow me to clarify, I'm considering taking it with a view to getting into the BL degree in Kings Inns but obviously also as an interest in law in general. I'm committed to attending every day but my work conditions cannot be altered and I'm facing the risk of being a little late most days. I've done a couple of dry runs from my work place in the last few days and it has taken about 40 mins to get there so I should scrape it most days. Thursday will be problematic as I can't get away until 5:20-5:30. I had heard about the mandatory attendance so I wanted to know first hand how stringent they are in reality. Stringy, I appreciate the advice, your first hand perspective is exactly the kind of information I want and I agree about availing of the tuition available and not wasting your money.

Tom Young

The Diploma was upgraded last year by the Inns. The modifications are better and the attendance and course work requirements are monitored.

The Dip is a good course alright and tailored towards the BL degree entrance exam.

I'd recommend going to work earlier and leaving earlier. But I do know you won't be alone in the work commitment area where people simply cannot be there etc.

Tom

Vainglory

I just finished 2nd year of the Diploma and I have to say that I don't think the wide ranging changes to the course that the current first years have experienced are for the better; I appreciate the sentiment behind them in terms of more continuous assessment, more tutorial hours, and that it's probably better from a pedagogical perspective, but the fact of the matter is that this is pitched as a part time course. It's at night to enable people to work full time. At the moment, to do all the work and preparation required of you and work full time as well is extremely difficult and I know a good few of the first years had to leave their jobs during the year as it was too difficult to do both. It seems almost to be a full time course workload on a part time basis and that was not what it was intended to be. I think it is likely to put people off who at the end of the day have to fund their studies through full time work so if the course becomes incompatible with full time jobs then enrollment will suffer accordingly.

I worked full time for my first year when they didn't require all those assignments and it nearly killed me - I'd never put myself through that again.

However in saying that I did go to most of the lectures and it is true that you can get through without doing that; however OP says she wants to go to the lectures so be under no illusions; doing so will be very very tough with a full time job.

There are plenty of people in my class who never really turned up and just crammed at the end. They mostly got through first year and it remains to be seen whether they will also get through second year (which is a good bit harder than first year IMHO). However these people, for the most part (although there are exceptions - mostly very dedicated people who read extensively and study widely during the year) do not have a good knowledge of the law and have just done it very short term over a two week period and then pretty much immediately forgotten it all. I think that to succeed at the Bar you genuinely have to love what you do and that it takes time to cultivate an interest to that level, and that attending classes certainly helps in that regard.

I also think that making it 4 days a week is a nice idea but that the Fridays are important for socialising with your class and with the rest of the college - surely they could have made it Mondays off instead? I know a lot of people will probably think I am mad for suggesting that they should reinstate Friday evening classes but I think it's an important element given the type of career we're getting ourselves into and how contacts-based it is.