ableton: good or bad?

alan kelly

Alright lads. Have got a trial version of ableton live . It is probably just that i dont understand what im doing but i am totally underwhelmed. It seem like its a full studio but not in the same league as logic or other programs. Obviously people have their favourites but am i missing the whole point of the program. I know i am not seeing the big picture but can someone explain what are ableton advantages/disadvantages..

jtsuited

alan kelly wrote: »

Alright lads. Have got a trial version of ableton live . It is probably just that i dont understand what im doing but i am totally underwhelmed. It seem like its a full studio but not in the same league as logic or other programs. Obviously people have their favourites but am i missing the whole point of the program. I know i am not seeing the big picture but can someone explain what are ableton advantages/disadvantages..

advantages:
1. great for jamming stuff in session view (as opposed to arrange view)
2. Great for playing live (obviously)
3. Great for sketching ideas.

Disadvantages
1. EVery version up until 7 sounds like crap
2. Pain in the ass to arrange in.
3. Mixer sucks
4. Can be counterintuitive to some.

I find it a pain in the ass to use as a standalone DAW, but one of my favourite producers (Sian) does his stuff this way.

Horses for courses. Some people love it, some hate it.

ball ox

I think the problem with Ableton is that alot of people approach it as they would Pro Tools or Logic and get thrown off. You have to come at it from a different angle. Check out the video tutorials and stuff online and see how other people use it, it can be tiresome to watch through them when so much of what they teach sounds familiar but its the only way you can quickly spot the advantages and tweaks that it has to offer as a "different" kind of DAW.

alan kelly

Cheers for the replies. Think i was expecting much the same as protools ect but will try check out some tutorials. I am guessing it is easier for live use(it says it in the title) but in what way. Can u trigger songs to start or maybe edit songs live?

PMI

I use ableton 7 live only as a VST host, its great and sturdy as funk for what i want.....

would need a brain transplant if I wanted to do a studio session on it though haha

hubiedubie

I did things the other way around. Learnt Live first. Then tried (unsuccessfully) to work with Logic. I found with Logic it took way too long to get anything I wanted done. A learning curve issue no doubt, but I wasn't prepared to stick with it.

The main benefit with Live is session view. Each clip is effectively a musical "idea" that can be auditioned with any other clip in the project. This can't be done as easily in timeline-based sequencers - you generally have to move stuff around the timeline.

As stated in an earlier post this (session view) is great for sketching ideas during compisition. Also if you set it up with a midi controller you can 'play' it like an instrument ie jamming. This definitely gives it a little more fun factor and allows for more playability than other DAWS.


Advantages:

- Session View: although it's only one benefit this is massive (for the reasons outlined above)
- Auto warping of loops / tracks: Live automatically warps loops and tracks to the project's tempo. In logic, you have to tell it how long the loop is and then timestretch / time-compress the file.

- Device Racks: You can create complex combinations of instruments / effects, assign multiple parameters to macros and then morph between them using the chain selector. This is great for sound design.

- Routing: Maybe a learning curve issue but I found routing in live way quicker / more intuitive and more flexible

- Unique instruments and effects: ie Beat Repeat, Collision, Operator

Disadvantages:
- Instruments and Effects: Certainly with logic, the quality of some of the Instruments is considerably better (Delay Designer, Space Designer, Sculpture) than than Live's which are somewhat basic.
- Midi editing: Much more advanced than live.
- Library: The library that comes with Logic is far more extensive than the one that comes with Live. You'd have to buy the Suite to really come close.

Valcin

Yep, i think the Session view is the selling point for Live as well. I started using Live first and have now moved on to Logic because of the superior sound in Logic and much superior plug ins but for writing music Live is much, much better.

The session view is great because you can come up with ideas and song structures that you would never come up with otherwise.

The session view works as whole collection of loops. For your verse you could put down maybe 10 different riffs for and have 10 different basslines and 10 different beats. You can alternate between any of them checking out what works well with what. I've written loads of stuff that I would never have come up with because of this.

It saves you loads of time when you are writing because of the use of loops. You can just loop a short beat then put down one bar of your verse, loop it, put down one bar of your chorus or whatever, loop it and you have the bones of a song in 5 mins by just clicking through the scenes to hear what they sound like.

I found that my finished mixes sounded like sh!te though when done through Live. The effects sound pretty crap to me and I wouldn't recommend the Suite, I have it and don't like any of the instruments compared to Logic's bar maybe the drum machines.

Drum racks is a pretty cool feature too that Logic doesn't have.

I write the tune in Live and then when I have it all worked out I'll rewire it or redo it in Logic. And it's a myth that Live is only for Dj's and electronic music. I make electronic and live instument music and I find it great for both.

Lukasz.

alan kelly wrote: »

Alright lads. Have got a trial version of ableton live . It is probably just that i dont understand what im doing but i am totally underwhelmed. It seem like its a full studio but not in the same league as logic or other programs. Obviously people have their favourites but am i missing the whole point of the program. I know i am not seeing the big picture but can someone explain what are ableton advantages/disadvantages..

You clearly havnt spent enough time on your free trial version.

Stick it out,go at it a good bit until you get your head around it and then youll know if its suitable for you.

Even when you know the trial version inside out,its still hard to know whether its right for you or not!

Ive had pieces music hardware that i took ages trying to figure out,and when i did,i couldnt produce work that i was happy with,so i got rid of it.But it took me a few moths to get to thatconclusion.

give it time man,plenty of time.

Lateralus359

I use it for recording the whole time. Recorded many tracks with it without problem. Sure Logic is better but that's on the piece of balls that is Mac. Ableton is good enough for the amateur and even though i don't like him that much Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails uses this to record his albums. Plus Ableton is the easiest program on earth to record on. I've had Sonar(good but buggy) and Fruity Loops(Bad,Bad,Bad) and have to say i prefer ableton for it's ease of recording.


If you have problems with it go check up recording review forum and go the sub forum in ableton. Loads of help.

woodsdenis

Lateralus359 wrote: »

I use it for recording the whole time. Recorded many tracks with it without problem. Sure Logic is better but that's on the piece of balls that is Mac. Ableton is good enough for the amateur and even though i don't like him that much Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails uses this to record his albums. Plus Ableton is the easiest program on earth to record on. I've had Sonar(good but buggy) and Fruity Loops(Bad,Bad,Bad) and have to say i prefer ableton for it's ease of recording.


If you have problems with it go check up recording review forum and go the sub forum in ableton. Loads of help.

http://www2.digidesign.com/digizine/dz_main.cfm?edition_id=43&navid=676&next=1


I think you will find that Trent Reznor uses ProTools to record and mix his albums. Click on link.

Lateralus359

Sorry buddy. I think you'll find we're both right.
http://www.ableton.com/pages/artists/nine_inch_nails

woodsdenis

Lateralus359 wrote: »

Sorry buddy. I think you'll find we're both right.
http://www.ableton.com/pages/artists/nine_inch_nails

From the Ableton website

"For years, Trent Reznor and his crew have been using Ableton Live as a production and sound design tool as well as a partner in sonic experimentation. Reznor says, "Live is a powerful and fun program to use. We use this extensively in the studio for a variety of purposes."



I have no doubt that NIN use ableton and many other programs as a production and sound design tool as well as a partner in sonic experimentation. You said "i don't like him that much Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails uses this to record his albums" which to anybody reading it would imply that NIN use ableton as their primary recording medium which clearly is not the case.

I have no issue with whatever program you think is good or bad but please get your facts right. Of all bands to use as an example, NIN are Protools
poster boys for gods sake.

Lateralus359

Man there's no need to get prissy about it. He uses BOTH Pro Tools and Ableton. I said we were both right. Not that you were wrong. You also impled by your statement that trent reznor does not use ableton at all. I was merely defending myself. But let's put this behind us.

woodsdenis

Lateralus359 wrote: »

i don't like him that much Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails uses this to record his albums. .

I am not being prissy. Read my posts carefully. You dont have to defend yourself nobody is attacking you. You made the above statement. I read it as
NIN use ableton as their primary recording medium, this assumption is at best
naive, and at worst misleading. If I misunderstood your statement please clarify it .
We are not talking about what Trent Reznor "uses", I am sure he "uses" many different software packages. You specifically said he uses this to record his albums. There is a huge difference .

I am sure he has used Garageband at some time but to say that Trent Reznor uses Garageband to record his albums wouldn't
be correct would it. Its a distortion of the facts, would you not agree?

Unfortunately you picked the one band on the planet that are avid Apple/Digidesign fanboys and who regularly promote these products.

End of discussion:D Peace:)

Lateralus359

Alright man i can see where your coming from. Fair enough i used a poor choice of words but anyone could take the statement "he uses this to record with" any way. It could mean what i thought(he uses it to record) or what you thought i meant(he only uses it to record). But this thread was if ableton was any good and i wanted to use an example of an artist who uses it.I also assumed from reading the ableton site and from the fact that he released a track before in ableton format for people to remix i assumed he used it as his primary recording tool. And true i didn't research much about it but again i don't really like NIN that much and didn't really care. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

For anyone else ableton have a list of artists that (i'll pick my words carefully) have ableton(and possibly some other DAW) and have used it at some point in the recording process.Check the link out.
http://www.ableton.com/pages/artists/list

Later.:)