Can Irish Citizens work in Germany freely?

legs11

As I got some weird email from Germany stating there was some law stating I couldnt.

This is Engineering work, so A Germany girl is looking into this and seeing if there is some law in Germany...
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herzlichen Dank für Ihre Bewerbung und Ihr Interesse an einer Tätigkeit bei Brunel.

Wie alle Arbeitgeber in Deutschland müssen wir bei Personalauswahlentscheidungen beachten, dass unseren zukünftigen Mitarbeitern eine Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet ist. An bei uns angestellte Ingenieure, die im Rahmen der Arbeitnehmerüberlassung unsere Kunden in deren anspruchsvollen Projekten unterstützen, stellt der Gesetzgeber diesbezüglich noch höhere Anforderungen.

Vor diesem rechtlichen Hintergrund ist es für Bewerber aus sogenannten Drittstaaten oder den neuen EU-Mitgliedsstaaten - selbst wenn sie einen hochwertigen technischen Hochschulabschluss haben - nicht möglich, eine Arbeitserlaubnis zu erlangen, die eine Beschäftigung bei uns und unseren Kunden erlaubt ( §§ 39,40 AufenthG ). Wir bedauern diese Situation sehr und hoffen angesichts des hohen Bedarfs an Ingenieuren in diesem Land auf baldige Änderung der Gesetzeslage.

Aus diesem Grunde müssen wir Ihnen leider mitteilen, dass wir Sie im weiteren Bewerbungsverfahren nicht berücksichtigen können. Bitte bewerten Sie dies nicht als generelle Aussage hinsichtlich Ihrer sehr guten Qualifikationen.

Wir wünschen Ihnen für Ihre weitere berufliche und private Zukunft alles Gute und viel Erfolg.

Mena

I can't read the german but hey, it's part of the EU so yes, you can.

AARRRGH

There might be some sort of engineering pass you need in Germany (like the "safe site" or whatever safety pass you need to work on building sites in Ireland) but in theory you can work there no problem as they're in the EU.

KTRIC

Does this person actually know where Ireland is ?

I've worked in Germany for nearly 2 years and to be honest the adverage Gerry gets confused when you mention Ireland. Most think of Iraq, Iceland and other countries.

I didn't have to get any special permit, just turned up for work. BTW, I'm classed as an engineer here as well.

Alun

They need reminding that Ireland is a full member of the EU They're saying they can't accept candidates from the new accession states (or Drittstaaten .. not sure what they are) because of them needing to get work permits. So I'd write back to them if I were you, that's not on.

KTRIC

Alun wrote: »

They need reminding that Ireland is a full member of the EU They're saying they can't accept candidates from the new ascension states (or Drittstaaten .. not sure what they are) because of them needing to get work permits. So I'd write back to them if I were you, that's not on.

Thanks Alun, thats what I got from it as well. My German is a little rusty at the moment.

jhegarty

My Geman is terrible, but I think they are suggesting you are from one of the new EU member that require a visa to work in Germany.

craichoe

They got it wrong:

http://www.juraforum.de/gesetze/AufenthG/39/39_AufenthG_zustimmung_zur_ausl%E4nderbesch%E4ftigung.html

(6) Staatsangehörigen derjenigen Staaten, die nach dem Vertrag vom 16. April 2003 über den Beitritt der Tschechischen Republik, der Republik Estland, der Republik Zypern, der Republik Lettland, der Republik Litauen, der Republik Ungarn, der Republik Malta, der Republik Polen, der Republik Slowenien und der Slowakischen Republik zur Europäischen Union (BGBl. 2003 II S. 1408) oder nach dem Vertrag vom 25. April 2005 über den Beitritt der Republik Bulgarien und Rumäniens zur Europäischen Union (BGBl. 2006 II S. 1146) der Europäischen Union beigetreten sind, kann von der Bundesagentur für Arbeit eine Beschäftigung, die eine qualifizierte Berufsausbildung voraussetzt, unter den Voraussetzungen des Absatzes 2 erlaubt werden, soweit nach Maßgabe dieser Verträge von den Rechtsvorschriften der Europäischen Gemeinschaft abweichende Regelungen Anwendung finden. Ihnen ist Vorrang gegenüber zum Zweck der Beschäftigung einreisenden Staatsangehörigen aus Drittstaaten zu gewähren.

der Republik Irlande is not in the list of accession countries.
I would let them know at least so they know in the future.

If you like you could drop solvit and e-mail,
http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/index_en.htm

AFAIK, the same rule in Holland has been dropped this year.

legs11

I am gonna email back this schwine and tell him Ireland Joined the EU on the 1st January 1973, along with Denmark and the UK.

jhegarty

legs11 wrote: »

I am gonna email back this schwine and tell him Ireland Joined the EU on the 1st January 1973, along with Denmark and the UK.

The EEC to be technical. (But you are dealing with ze germans)

legs11

Germans huh//...

janullrich

Some people's ignorance here of Germans and Germany is quite unbelievable. It clearly states if people bothered to check it out that new countries of the EU (those who came in from 2004) must have a visa before entering the country and working in most places in the country. Germany have this restriction. Only Ireland, Sweden and the UK allow these countries to come in without visas. Legs11 As a half German its a great country but do a bit of reading on it beforehand and learn some German. You would not need to write emails such as this. With ignorance like yours and won't get u far. Ktric what are u talking about -Iraq, Iceland????? U really have not met many Germany at all have u or have u stayed in a Paddy bar all the time?

Photojoe

janullrich wrote: »

Some people's ignorance here of Germans and Germany is quite unbelievable. It clearly states if people bothered to check it out that new countries of the EU (those who came in from 2004) must have a visa before entering the country and working in most places in the country. Germany have this restriction. Only Ireland, Sweden and the UK allow these countries to come in without visas. Legs11 As a half German its a great country but do a bit of reading on it beforehand and learn some German. You would not need to write emails such as this. With ignorance like yours and won't get u far. Ktric what are u talking about -Iraq, Iceland????? U really have not met many Germany at all have u or have u stayed in a Paddy bar all the time?

I think you are the ignorant one in this.

KTRIC

janullrich wrote: »

. Ktric what are u talking about -Iraq, Iceland????? U really have not met many Germany at all have u or have u stayed in a Paddy bar all the time?

:rolleyes:

I've been living in Munich for 2 years and before that spent 6 years coming and going from Bayreuth.

I've expierienced first hand the ignorance that officials have here regarding Ireland. I was questioned for 20 minutes by immigration in Munich airport as to why I thought I could live in Germany without a residents permit. When it came down to it they didn't even realise Ireland was part of the EU.

leeroybrown

The obvious thing to do is contact the person who sent the e-mail and explain that there must be some confusion as your are an Irish citizen and as such there is no work permit restriction on you in Germany. A polite response could sort this out quickly and simply.

cailinoBAC

But what has that got to do with the situation? The email states they can't employ people from new EU countries.This doesn't affect Ireland in any way. I've worked in Germany a few times, no problem, and there are plenty of Germans working here. It's just very strange, were you not very clear on your nationality? Maybe they just got loads of Polish applicants and sent out a standard reply to everybody.

Edit to say....was reply to Janullrich, others got in inbetween.

jhegarty

janullrich wrote: »

Some people's ignorance here of Germans and Germany is quite unbelievable. It clearly states if people bothered to check it out that new countries of the EU (those who came in from 2004) must have a visa before entering the country and working in most places in the country. Germany have this restriction. Only Ireland, Sweden and the UK allow these countries to come in without visas. Legs11 As a half German its a great country but do a bit of reading on it beforehand and learn some German. You would not need to write emails such as this. With ignorance like yours and won't get u far. Ktric what are u talking about -Iraq, Iceland????? U really have not met many Germany at all have u or have u stayed in a Paddy bar all the time?

You do know Ireland isn't one of the new countries ?

Agent Smith

if libertas has their way you'll be needing a blue card visa.

axer

KTRIC wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I've been living in Munich for 2 years and before that spent 6 years coming and going from Bayreuth.

I've expierienced first hand the ignorance that officials have here regarding Ireland. I was questioned for 20 minutes by immigration in Munich airport as to why I thought I could live in Germany without a residents permit. When it came down to it they didn't even realise Ireland was part of the EU.

I have never heard anything like this before and I have never met any germans that did not know where Ireland is. I lie, actually there was one but he was 5 years old. I have lived in a very small town in Sachsen, in Cottbus (Brandenburg) and in another small town in Brandenburg for nearly 3 years.

I agree with janullrich, there is alot ignorance here regarding Germans and Germany. It is a wonderful country and I have found German people to be very nice.

OP, there is no restriction unless your particular job is regulated.

x in the city

My German gf tells me its a restriction alright, as the agency will be hiring me and paying me and not an actual company.

something along the lines of this.

Normal work for a company without headhunters would be fine of course... if I could get an interview..:(

axer

x in the city wrote: »

My German gf tells me its a restriction alright, as the agency will be hiring me and paying me and not an actual company.

something along the lines of this.

Normal work for a company without headhunters would be fine of course... if I could get an interview..:(

huh?

Eoin

axer wrote: »

I agree with janullrich, there is alot ignorance here regarding Germans and Germany. It is a wonderful country and I have found German people to be very nice.

OP, there is no restriction unless your particular job is regulated.

The ignorance in this case seems to be entirely on the German person's side. I don't think anyone is being too derogatory about the country or the people.

janullrich

Eoin. How the hell did u become moderater? Part of ur job is to read the threads and u have not done a good job here. I would advise u to spend a extra minute or two looking at the various threads on the first page. If you still don't see ignorance then you are like Basil Fawlty in Fawlty Towers!

Eoin

janullrich wrote: »

Eoin. How the hell did u become moderater? Part of ur job is to read the threads and u have not done a good job here. I would advise u to spend a extra minute or two looking at the various threads on the first page. If you still don't see ignorance then you are like Basil Fawlty in Fawlty Towers!

I am not a moderator in this forum, and I'd appreciate if you could try and be civil. Incidentally, I am part German.

All I can see is people stating that many Germans do not appear to realise that Ireland is a full member of the E.U. Your own post seems to prove this.

Photojoe

janullrich wrote: »

Eoin. How the hell did u become moderater? Part of ur job is to read the threads and u have not done a good job here. I would advise u to spend a extra minute or two looking at the various threads on the first page. If you still don't see ignorance then you are like Basil Fawlty in Fawlty Towers!

Why don't you explain what you think is ignorant.

The ignorance is entirely on the German side in this thread.

EastWallGirl

Directive 2004/38/EC

This is what enshrines free movement (and work) within the EU for EU citizens and their spouses.

Most EU countries have issues within officialdom regarding this right and the implementation of it.

jester77

You'll have a few ignorant people no matter where you are. I've had dealings with a 1 or 2 here in Germany who have asked if I have a visa. I tell them I'm from Ireland and that is the end of it. These people are usually dealing with a lot of non-EU people where the common language would be English so they often overlook where you are from.

OP, just get back to the Beamte or HR person you were dealing with and explain that you are from Ireland and would like to have your application re-accessed.

testicle

janullrich wrote: »

Eoin. How the hell did u become moderater? Part of ur job is to read the threads and u have not done a good job here. I would advise u to spend a extra minute or two looking at the various threads on the first page. If you still don't see ignorance then you are like Basil Fawlty in Fawlty Towers!

Did someone mention the war ?

janullrich

KTRIC wrote: »

Does this person actually know where Ireland is ?

I've worked in Germany for nearly 2 years and to be honest the adverage Gerry gets confused when you mention Ireland. Most think of Iraq, Iceland and other countries.

I didn't have to get any special permit, just turned up for work. BTW, I'm classed as an engineer here as well.

Well there is a quote that is pretty ignorant. Almost every German knows where Ireland is and certainly most don't think of Iraq, Iceland and other countries or are anyway confused by it. Just 1 example of it Photojoe or maybe u deliberately decided to overlook it or maybe you should get out more and go to Germany for a look and speak to some Germans.

Photojoe

janullrich wrote: »

Well there is a quote that is pretty ignorant. Almost every German knows where Ireland is and certainly most don't think of Iraq, Iceland and other countries or are anyway confused by it. Just 1 example of it Photojoe or maybe u deliberately decided to overlook it or maybe you should get out more and go to Germany for a look and speak to some Germans.

I go to Germany about 3 times a year. Plenty there just think Irish people are English.

The ignorance displayed by that HR person would be common enough.

x in the city

Its not to do with Germany not recognising that Ireland as EU at all.

Its this bit of the email people are not picking up

'§§ 39,40 AufenthG'

Its to do with the fact these headhunters actually pay you for the clients work.

My gf looked into this and confirmed it.

Its still grand of course to get work in Germany but it seems there is a problem with headhunters who hire non german citizens for work, freelance or whatnot.

Micamaca

I just wanted to echo the sentiments that Germany is a lovely country. I have spent a year there a small town called Trier. When I told people I was from Ireland, they always knew where it was and they always expressed positive feelings about the country.

Why are people so quick to judge? Even if the agency wasn't the reason for the restriction, there could be other reasons for this...such as a clerical error. It is a much bigger country. Agencies must get thousands of applications. Has nobody ever had to query a mistake made in Ireland I know I have!

Eoin

I don't think anyone is saying that Germany isn't a lovely country. They are just saying that not all Germans might know that much about Ireland (why would they?). "Ignorant" also means uninformed; it's not necessarily a pejorative term.

Micamaca

Fair enough...I am a little overly defensive of Germans and Germany.

WIZE

you will have no problem working in Germany . I was a Manager there for 9 years and only came back last year. when you get there you have to go to the town hall and register . This will get you the proper paper and tax card which you will then give to your boss . No problems

Oh and Germany is one of the nicest Countries is Europe

janullrich

Totally agree. The country is very beautiful especially when you go into the countryside. I still speak the language everyday and keep up with politics, football etc but miss the beautiful countryside. Don't get me wrong. Ireland is also very beautiful.

unkel

janullrich wrote: »

do a bit of reading on it beforehand and learn some German. You would not need to write emails such as this. With ignorance like yours and won't get u far. Ktric what are u talking about -Iraq, Iceland????? U really have not met many Germany at all have u or have u stayed in a Paddy bar all the time?

Back on yore bike, Jan.



Sorry, couldn't resist