What do you think happens when you die?

TheKnowledge

I know this is one of the great mysteries that can never be answered but near death experiences have given a small insight (if believable). Do you see your dead relatives? Do you see a bright light at the end of a tunnel? Do you stay around until your spirit is ready to go to heaven? Or something else? I'm not looking for a debate, just opinions.

Atheists needn't leave a post with their traditional input of saying nothing happens. We get it, ye dont believe.

PDN

I believe that I will go to be with Jesus Christ. I have no idea what that will be like.

kelly1

TheKnowledge wrote: »

I know this is one of the great mysteries that can never be answered but near death experiences have given a small insight (if believable). Do you see your dead relatives? Do you see a bright light at the end of a tunnel? Do you stay around until your spirit is ready to go to heaven? Or something else? I'm not looking for a debate, just opinions.

Atheists needn't leave a post with their traditional input of saying nothing happens. We get it, ye dont believe.

From a Catholic perspective, I believe we are judged by Christ immediately after death. If at that time the Holy Spirit doesn't dwell in your soul (i.e. a state of mortal sin), your spirit goes immediately to hell while your body remains in the grave. If, on the other hand, the Holy Spirit dwells within your soul, you go to Purgatory or Heaven. Purgatory is necessary for those who haven't achieved perfection in this life and are in need of purification and I personally believe that very few of us will be perfecly pure when death comes. Some fortunate souls will go straight to Heaven e.g. martyrs and those recently baptised and saintly people. I believe that when we do eventually get to see the "face" of God, we will be totally overawed by His infinite perfections and His love. We will praise His mercy eternally.

I believe we will see our relatives in heaven who have been saved by Christ but I don't accept that souls "hang around" in some non-descript place as some "mediums" would have us believe.

At the general judgment, the bodies of all deceased, including the damned with be resurrected and remade. The bodies of the just will be glorious and the body of the damned will be ugly/vile.

God bless,
Noel.

anunknownuser

Hello everybody :
death is the stage where the soul leaves the body and thus turning an individual into total energy.
this energy is whats eternal in all religions.
this energy (soul) exists an a scientific fact.
this energy is a part of the existence but religion is just words of men and not the entire existence.
positivity is the key .

Owen

anunknownuser wrote: »

this energy (soul) exists an a scientific fact.

No, no it doesn't.

homer911

Noel, why would God judge us twice? Doesnt make sense to me..

kelly1

homer911 wrote: »

Noel, why would God judge us twice? Doesnt make sense to me..

Apparently this means God can take into account the lasting effects of our life after we die.

Here's an article about it.

JimiTime

My 'present understanding', based on my understanding of scripture is that when we die, we are concious of nothing. No spirit floating off etc. We are 'asleep in death' until gods appointed day of Judgement where there will be a resurrection to eternal life, or eternal destruction. This eternal life will be earthly or heavenly, as God says he is creating a new heaven 'and' new earth. I don't believe that the common doctrine of hell is a correct one. My reading of it, is that it is what Revelation says it is, 'the second death of which there is no resurrection'. So the wicked will be destroyed forever along with death. No eternal life of torture, or being eternally denied the presence of God (which i find is a bit of a cop out for those who are uncomforatable with the common concept of hell, but can't let go of the fundamental concept).

Again, this is my 'present understanding', and as an uninspired (spritually speaking) man, is based on my wit and (lack of) wisdom.

I've never been convinced by any near death experience stories I've heard neither.

toiletduck

kelly1 wrote: »

At the general judgment, the bodies of all deceased, including the damned with be resurrected and remade. The bodies of the just will be glorious and the body of the damned will be ugly/vile.

Curious, what 'age' will the bodies be in your opinion.

homer911

kelly1 wrote: »

Apparently this means God can take into account the lasting effects of our life after we die.

Here's an article about it.

But if God knows everything...

Sorry, still doesnt make sense. I'm sure the bible says something about being judged once, will have to look it up.

homer911

JimiTime wrote: »

We are 'asleep in death' until gods appointed day of Judgement where there will be a resurrection to eternal life, or eternal destruction.

Didnt Jesus tell the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise"

Seaneh

I can't think of a single biblical reason to believe in purgatory to be honest... so I'm pretty much a Heaven or Hell person.

I'm going to heaven btw, hope to see you all there .

wolfsbane

TheKnowledge wrote: »

I know this is one of the great mysteries that can never be answered but near death experiences have given a small insight (if believable). Do you see your dead relatives? Do you see a bright light at the end of a tunnel? Do you stay around until your spirit is ready to go to heaven? Or something else? I'm not looking for a debate, just opinions.

Atheists needn't leave a post with their traditional input of saying nothing happens. We get it, ye dont believe.

With the apostle Paul, I believe the Christian who departs this life goes to be with Christ immediately:
2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

The unbeliever goes straight to Hades, the remand prison where the guilty are held under punishment to await the final Judgement:
Luke 16:22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

midlandsmissus

I want to be deadly serious here and say that I definitely had a vision once.

I was a little girl and I was in bed, wide awake, and I had this really shiny hard backed plastic black desk chair in my room.

I looked at the chair that night and on the back of the chair was a glowing picture of a man's face. I'll never forget it. I looked at it for ages, and it stayed there for ages.

I was in an atheist family at the time, but I knew what Jesus was said to look like from pictures in school and stuff like that, and the face was his.I'm sure of it. I told my mum and of course she said I was being ridiculous, and as a child I lost interest in it after a while and went on with my life.

I never saw anything again, but a glowing face definitely appeared to me in that room that night. It wasn't moving, just stayed there glowing.

Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? And what do you think it could mean? Or even when Jesus appears to anyone? Maybe because I didnt believe in him at the time? I dont know, but it was profound and I'll never forget it.


Edit: sorry mods I meant to put this post as a new thread, could you please change it for me?

JimiTime

homer911 wrote: »

Didnt Jesus tell the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise"

Was Jesus in Paradise that day? Decended to hades is what I recall, then risen after 3 days. Unless you are aware that Jesus did in fact go to paradise that day?

b12mearse

i believe we become one with the positive energy force that drives all life.

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

Was Jesus in Paradise that day? Decended to hades is what I recall, then risen after 3 days. Unless you are aware that Jesus did in fact go to paradise that day?

The Jewish belief of the day was that Hades (Hebrew 'Sheol' - the place of the dead) was divided into two parts. Lower Hades was for the wicked and was a nasty place to be. Upper Hades, know as 'Abraham's bosom' or as 'Paradise', was a pretty cool place where you got to chat to the patriarchs etc. You can this two tier concept of Hades in Christ's parable about the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).

The New Testament would appear to teach that Jesus, at some stage after His death on the Cross, emptied upper Hades and took everyone there to the Father's presence (what we know as 'heaven'). Jesus also, since the Ascension, is in the presence of the Father. So now every believer who dies, such as Stephen or Paul, goes to be with Christ. Unbelievers, however, still go to Hades.

At the end of the book Hades is emptied and dumped into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) - or what we commonly think of as 'Hell'. So Hell is one final destination.

Also at the end of the book, there will be a new heaven and a new earth where God will dwell with his people. So, being with God on this new earth in our resurrected bodies (rather than heaven) is the other final destination.

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

The Jewish belief of the day was that Hades (Hebrew 'Sheol' - the place of the dead) was divided into two parts. Lower Hades was for the wicked and was a nasty place to be. Upper Hades, know as 'Abraham's bosom' or as 'Paradise', was a pretty cool place where you got to chat to the patriarchs etc. You can this two tier concept of Hades in Christ's parable about the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).

The New Testament would appear to teach that Jesus, at some stage after His death on the Cross, emptied upper Hades and took everyone there to the Father's presence (what we know as 'heaven'). Jesus also, since the Ascension, is in the presence of the Father. So now every believer who dies, such as Stephen or Paul, goes to be with Christ. Unbelievers, however, still go to Hades.

At the end of the book Hades is emptied and dumped into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) - or what we commonly think of as 'Hell'. So Hell is one final destination.

Also at the end of the book, there will be a new heaven and a new earth where God will dwell with his people. So, being with God on this new earth in our resurrected bodies (rather than heaven) is the other final destination.

Thanks for that PDN. Would you have any source material which indicates that the OT Jews believed in Hades as the two tier system described? I was under the impression that Sheol was understood to be 'pit' or 'grave'?

I myself seem to find flaw in all the doctrines of the afterlife. Obviously, I trust God so its not like I'm worried about it or anything, but including my own 'current' understanding, each doctrine seems to throw up questions.

Could pan out to an interesting discussion.

kelly1

I just had two nice Jehovah's Witnesses at my door. They told me the just will live on earth in the kind of paradise that Adam and Eve lived and that a chosen 144,000 will go to heaven but she couldn't tell me who would go to heaven. She was happy to remain on earth for eternity!

PDN

JimiTime wrote: »

Thanks for that PDN. Would you have any source material which indicates that the OT Jews believed in Hades as the two tier system described? I was under the impression that Sheol was understood to be 'pit' or 'grave'?

I myself seem to find flaw in all the doctrines of the afterlife. Obviously, I trust God so its not like I'm worried about it or anything, but including my own 'current' understanding, each doctrine seems to throw up questions.

Could pan out to an interesting discussion.

Hope this link works: J Sidlow Baxter - The Other Side of Death

JimiTime

PDN wrote: »

Hope this link works: J Sidlow Baxter - The Other Side of Death

The link worked thanks. I just a brief look at it. It alludes to some Talmudic references. Would I be right in thinking that no such idea is alluded to in the OT? Also, would this Talmudic reference be post Jesus?

Thanks again.

Overblood

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I want to be deadly serious here and say that I definitely had a vision once.

I was a little girl and I was in bed, wide awake, and I had this really shiny hard backed plastic black desk chair in my room.

I looked at the chair that night and on the back of the chair was a glowing picture of a man's face. I'll never forget it. I looked at it for ages, and it stayed there for ages.

I was in an atheist family at the time, but I knew what Jesus was said to look like from pictures in school and stuff like that, and the face was his.I'm sure of it. I told my mum and of course she said I was being ridiculous, and as a child I lost interest in it after a while and went on with my life.

I never saw anything again, but a glowing face definitely appeared to me in that room that night. It wasn't moving, just stayed there glowing.

Has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? And what do you think it could mean? Or even when Jesus appears to anyone? Maybe because I didnt believe in him at the time? I dont know, but it was profound and I'll never forget it.


Edit: sorry mods I meant to put this post as a new thread, could you please change it for me?

What age were you?

xxborderline

TheKnowledge wrote: »

I know this is one of the great mysteries that can never be answered but near death experiences have given a small insight (if believable). Do you see your dead relatives? Do you see a bright light at the end of a tunnel? Do you stay around until your spirit is ready to go to heaven? Or something else? I'm not looking for a debate, just opinions.

Atheists needn't leave a post with their traditional input of saying nothing happens. We get it, ye dont believe.

I can only imagine that it is like falling asleep. You just loose contact with reality and then you "wake up" in heaven or not . I have seen this poster which said: " Evil life ends with death".

electrogrimey

I'd just like to know what kind of conciousness you believers expect to have after death, because if there is some form of life after death, naturally it wouldn't be life as we know it, as we wouldn't have eyes, ears etc. Just a thought...

PDN

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'd just like to know what kind of conciousness you believers expect to have after death, because if there is some form of life after death, naturally it wouldn't be life as we know it, as we wouldn't have eyes, ears etc. Just a thought...

Surprisingly enough we Christians believe that our resurrected bodies will have eyes, ears etc. Just a thought ......

kelly1

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'd just like to know what kind of conciousness you believers expect to have after death, because if there is some form of life after death, naturally it wouldn't be life as we know it, as we wouldn't have eyes, ears etc. Just a thought...

I think the very first thing that would hit us would be the reality of the majesty of God as we come before Jesus to be judged. I like to think of death like a kind of lifting of a veil which allows us to see a higher reality which is hidden from us on earth. Where on earth we could only begin to imagine what God is like, we will be faced with the ultimate source and destiny of all humans and angels. I think our consciousness with become very clear and unclouded free of any restraints that the physical body and brain impose.

togster

PDN wrote: »

Surprisingly enough we Christians believe that our resurrected bodies will have eyes, ears etc. Just a thought ......

I am just curious, but why do you believe that?

Can someone tell me what is the Christian definition in heaven? If you believe in this afterlife, you must have a definition of what heaven is? Now i realise most will say that it boils down to faith. But where does the idea of this heaven/afterlife come from. I realise Jesus must have said it? But where does he say, that when your body dies that your soul goes to this place known as heaven.

I'm seriously just very curious about it and am trying to learn as much about lots of religions as possible lately.

togster

kelly1 wrote: »

I think the very first thing that would hit us would be the reality of the majesty of God as we come before Jesus to be judged. I like to think of death like a kind of lifting of a veil which allows us to see a higher reality which is hidden from us on earth. Where on earth we could only begin to imagine what God is like, we will be faced with the ultimate source and destiny of all humans and angels. I think our consciousness with become very clear and unclouded free of any restraints that the physical body and brain impose.

Isn't that possible through the body and mindfullness on this earth? What makes us think we cannot attain that in this lifetime? If you look at it from this perspective, you can see that what Jesus said regarding heaven is also applicable to life here.

electrogrimey

togster wrote: »

Isn't that possible through the body and mindfullness on this earth? What makes us think we cannot attain that in this lifetime? If you look at it from this perspective, you can see that what Jesus said regarding heaven is also applicable to life here.

Yes, isn't this what people seek to achieve with meditation and/or mind-altering drugs?

PDN

togster wrote: »

I am just curious, but why do you believe that?

Can someone tell me what is the Christian definition in heaven? If you believe in this afterlife, you must have a definition of what heaven is? Now i realise most will say that it boils down to faith. But where does the idea of this heaven/afterlife come from. I realise Jesus must have said it? But where does he say, that when your body dies that your soul goes to this place known as heaven.

I'm seriously just very curious about it and am trying to learn as much about lots of religions as possible lately.

I believe in the resurrection from the dead because that is one of the foundational truths of Christianity. According to the apostle Paul, without it we don't have anything worth calling a Gospel at all.

Heaven is, in my opinion, being in the presence of God until the resurrection takes place. I think it quite likely that it will not be like anything at all - since God inhabits eternity. So, it may be that we die, then step out of time into eternity, then a split-second later step back into time to find ourselves at the point in the future where the resurrection occurs. Then, according to the Bible, there will be a new heaven and a new earth and we will dwell with God, in our resurrection bodies, for all eternity.

The Bible says very little about heaven because the resurrection from the dead, not heaven, was the believer's hope in early Christianity. The idea of floating around in heaven for all eternity is more based on false Greek philosophies (that saw the body as evil or base) rather than on the Bible.

kelly1

togster wrote: »

Isn't that possible through the body and mindfullness on this earth? What makes us think we cannot attain that in this lifetime? If you look at it from this perspective, you can see that what Jesus said regarding heaven is also applicable to life here.

Nobody on earth knows what God "looks" like. Those who are very, very close to God still relate to God through faith and even those who have had visions of Jesus still haven't seen the Beatific Vision. Sure we can have a close bond with Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit but nobody knows what God has in store for us in heaven.

togster

kelly1 wrote: »

Nobody on earth knows what God "looks" like. Those who are very, very close to God still relate to God through faith and even those who have had visions of Jesus still haven't seen the Beatific Vision. Sure we can have a close bond with Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit but nobody knows what God has in store for us in heaven.

I know what god "looks like" as you put it. But my god and your god are two different things. My "god" is here all around us. Didn't Jesus say something alon the lines of "cut a piece of wood and i am there"? This to me would mean that Jesus knew "god" was in everything and every being on this planet. Or am i missing something? Again i see heaven as being completely at peace (holy spirit) no matter what arises around you or within you. i.e the seperation of our soul from our emotions and thought processes. So for me "hell" is mental anguish and unconciousness (i.e acting because of old mind processes) and heaven is attainable every moment, as there only ever is one moment, i.e everlasting life. I believe resurrection is the knowing or development beyond mind and emotion and transcending it to be in heaven with god.

I'm sorry, i know this is not the right place for my ramblings. But i have my own interpretation of what Jesus meant. Does that mean i'm not christian even though i believe in Jesus Christ as a great man and spiritual teacher? Didn't he say "we are all son's of god"?

PDN

togster wrote: »

Didn't Jesus say something alon the lines of "cut a piece of wood and i am there"?

No. He didn't.

togster

Apologies, and i am probably getting in way over my head here, but according to the gospel of thomas

Saying 30 + 77b (pOxy. 1.23-30)

[Jesus sa]id, ["Wh]ere there are [th]r[ee] t[hey ar]e [without] God. And [w]here there is only o[ne], I say, I am with hi[m]. Li[f]t the stone and there you will find me. Split the wood and I am there."

Or maybe i'm wrong

I'm not trying to debate this with people who know far more but what is he saying there then?

PDN

togster wrote: »

Apologies, and i am probably getting in way over my head here, but according to the gospel of thomas

Saying 30 + 77b (pOxy. 1.23-30)

[Jesus sa]id, ["Wh]ere there are [th]r[ee] t[hey ar]e [without] God. And [w]here there is only o[ne], I say, I am with hi[m]. Li[f]t the stone and there you will find me. Split the wood and I am there."

Or maybe i'm wrong

I'm not trying to debate this with people who know far more but what is he saying there then?

Apologies, I thought we were talking about Jesus as revealed in the Bible (this being the Christianity forum and all that). If we're going to go to all other books written about Jesus then I guess we can say anything at all about him.

togster

PDN wrote: »

Apologies, I thought we were talking about Jesus as revealed in the Bible (this being the Christianity forum and all that). If we're going to go to all other books written about Jesus then I guess we can say anything at all about him.

I can see i've annoyed you. I have to admit i don't know quite enough about the bible and other books to debate anything with you. One last question, why is the gospel of thomas not included in the bible? and why do Christians dis-regard other books? I realise it is not your duty to teach me, i'm just curious!

Apologies.

PDN

togster wrote: »

I can see i've annoyed you. I have to admit i don't know quite enough about the bible and other books to debate anything with you. One last question, why is the gospel of thomas not included in the bible? and why do Christians dis-regard other books? I realise it is not your duty to teach me, i'm just curious!

Apologies.

Don't worry, I'm not annoyed in the slightest.

The early churches included those books in the New Testament which they judged to be authentically inspired by the Holy Spirit. These met the following criteria:
a) Written early. Within the lifetime of eyewitnesses to the life of Jesus.
b) Apostolicity. Written by an apostle or a close associate of an apostle.
c) Doctrinally Correct. In line with the truths revealed by Jesus or by the apostles.

kelly1

togster wrote: »

I know what god "looks like" as you put it. But my god and your god are two different things. My "god" is here all around us.

Yes, I think we have very different ideas about what God is.

You seem to subscribe to pantheism. Am I correct?

My idea of God is an infinite Spirit with infinite intelligence, knowledge, wisdom, power, mercy and love. God loves each and every one of us personally and through His grace acts upon all people in order to draw them towards Himself.

Our nature in itself is nothing compared with God and all good comes from Him. i.e. Without God we are nothing. We might think we're good people but it's God grace that gives us the will to do good in the first place whether we know it or not.

togster wrote: »

I'm sorry, i know this is not the right place for my ramblings. But i have my own interpretation of what Jesus meant. Does that mean i'm not christian even though i believe in Jesus Christ as a great man and spiritual teacher? Didn't he say "we are all son's of god"?

I suppose that depends on who you believe Christ to be. If you believe Christ was nothing more than a very wise teacher and all round good guy, then I wouldn't call that being Christian.

If you believe that Christ is the only true Son of God (or God the Son in terms of the Trinity) and you believe that there is no other way to God other than through Christ, then there's a good chance you're a Christian. Regardless of who is saved on this planet, it's only through Christ's death on the cross that any of us is going to heaven.

jhegarty

I think it will be something none of us (with our tiny mortal brains) can even hope to comprehend.

bernardo mac

lots of relief and applause.For me Peace and Sanity;)