Reporting an incident - Lack of Interest

BrianD

hi

Perhaps some members of the Garda might be able to help with this. As an upstanding citizen - or so I like to think so - if I see something worth reporting I always will. It doesn't happen very often but every occasion I seem to be greeted with a combination of amateurishness and a lack of interest. Why is this? IS there not a set procedure to follow when a member of the public reports an incident or something of note?

This morning for example, I saw two very drunk individuals at the corner of Macken and Pearse St. One was urinating on a shop window while his colleague went to grab a passing woman. The guy was so drunk that he missed (almost cartoonish) and the woman walked on oblivious to her near miss. Clearly these guys were going to cause trouble.

So I drive on, pull in, ring directory enquiries, get the number for Pearse St Garda Stn. A female answers the phone. I tell her what's happened, she interrupts and asks "was he endangering traffic" and generally sounds uninterested. I had to volunteer discriptions and then she says thanks and hangs up. Now unless she has a great mind or fast with a pencil she would have no details of where the incident happened. She didn;t ask my name or number. Nor did she say if they would take any action.

Surely the Garda should have a short form that they can record and then verify and incident a member of the public calls in? Can they not even pretend that there will some follow up? I can only describe this type of behaviour as amateurish and it doesn't instill any respect or confidence of ordinary people in the Garda.

Any comments?

Hooch

BrianD wrote: »

hi

Perhaps some members of the Garda might be able to help with this. As an upstanding citizen - or so I like to think so - if I see something worth reporting I always will. It doesn't happen very often but every occasion I seem to be greeted with a combination of amateurishness and a lack of interest. Why is this? IS there not a set procedure to follow when a member of the public reports an incident or something of note?

This morning for example, I saw two very drunk individuals at the corner of Macken and Pearse St. One was urinating on a shop window while his colleague went to grab a passing woman. The guy was so drunk that he missed (almost cartoonish) and the woman walked on oblivious to her near miss. Clearly these guys were going to cause trouble.

So I drive on, pull in, ring directory enquiries, get the number for Pearse St Garda Stn. A female answers the phone. I tell her what's happened, she interrupts and asks "was he endangering traffic" and generally sounds uninterested. I had to volunteer discriptions and then she says thanks and hangs up. Now unless she has a great mind or fast with a pencil she would have no details of where the incident happened. She didn;t ask my name or number. Nor did she say if they would take any action.

Surely the Garda should have a short form that they can record and then verify and incident a member of the public calls in? Can they not even pretend that there will some follow up? I can only describe this type of behaviour as amateurish and it doesn't instill any respect or confidence of ordinary people in the Garda.

Any comments?

Im quite disappointed with this. As you said at the very least she should have sounded interested!!

I cant, nor wont, offer excuses for this type of public interaction. I cant explain it tbh.

There is no short form or set procedure for answering calls, just a pen and blank paper!! As I said im disappointed. Maybe someone from the DMR can shed light on their procedures, us in the country could be different

bravestar

BrianD wrote: »

hi

Perhaps some members of the Garda might be able to help with this. As an upstanding citizen - or so I like to think so - if I see something worth reporting I always will. It doesn't happen very often but every occasion I seem to be greeted with a combination of amateurishness and a lack of interest. Why is this? IS there not a set procedure to follow when a member of the public reports an incident or something of note?

This morning for example, I saw two very drunk individuals at the corner of Macken and Pearse St. One was urinating on a shop window while his colleague went to grab a passing woman. The guy was so drunk that he missed (almost cartoonish) and the woman walked on oblivious to her near miss. Clearly these guys were going to cause trouble.

So I drive on, pull in, ring directory enquiries, get the number for Pearse St Garda Stn. A female answers the phone. I tell her what's happened, she interrupts and asks "was he endangering traffic" and generally sounds uninterested. I had to volunteer discriptions and then she says thanks and hangs up. Now unless she has a great mind or fast with a pencil she would have no details of where the incident happened. She didn;t ask my name or number. Nor did she say if they would take any action.

Surely the Garda should have a short form that they can record and then verify and incident a member of the public calls in? Can they not even pretend that there will some follow up? I can only describe this type of behaviour as amateurish and it doesn't instill any respect or confidence of ordinary people in the Garda.

Any comments?

While I agree that this is unacceptable I can offer an insight. I can only speak for the busy DMR stations by the way. These type of calls come in one after another, constantly. The female Garda you spoke with has probably responded to these type of calls a hundreds of times. Arrested said offenders, brought them to court, only to have them issued with a small fine, which they will never pay because they cant afford it. Lodged them in said prison (overcrowded and doesnt want them) for not paying the fine and then returned to their station only to find said offender back on the street before they are.

In the process they may have had to miss a christening, birthday, family occassion, the only night this month they could get a baby sitter because they were required in court/had to stay late in work etc.

After you do this a hundred times getting nowhere and see the lads you arrested back on the streets before you can get your lunch it tends to get a little disheartening.

I am not offering this as an excuse for her lack of interest on the phone to you. Just trying to show the other side of the coin.

Random

They were busy eating donuts!

****

Really though, it would be nice if she could just simply enter "John Doe called and told us about 2 drunks pissing on a wall next to Easons. He gave us xyz info". Then she could give you a reference number and off we go.

I guess it would be pointless because "there's more important things for Gardai to do" but at the same time at least the information would be recorded if it was required in the future.

Turner

In the Dublin Region (although they can be answered by busy stations if you ring them direct) calls would be answered by call takers in Garda command and control following a 999 call.

These people only take calls and recieve call after call for eight hours.

All they want is the type of call (eg public order, robbery, burglary,suicide ect ect), location, your name, your phone number.

They, although they have to listen to it - do not want a story or how you feel about the incident or even want to tell you what the gardai if anything are going to do about it!

They input the above details onto a computer and a seperate despatcher allocates the calls (based on priority) to available patrol cars as they become available.

it can take anything from 30 seconds up to 6 hours for a patrol car to respond to this call depending on how busy it is.

Dont blame the Gardai because they do their best with their resources.

Call takers are not told when a patrol car gets to the call and do not ring people back (although they can check out of interest)

poisonated

bravestar wrote: »

.

In the process they may have had to miss a christening, birthday, family occassion, the only night this month they could get a baby sitter because they were required in court/had to stay late in work etc.

QUOTE]

This really annoys me!oh no they are going to have to work at an inconveniant time:rolleyes:.We are living in a recession here and if they dont want to do their job,there are plenty of people willing!My opinon on the gardai is that there are some very good ones but then there are those who wannabe james bond...give me a break

bo-bo

poisonated wrote: »

bravestar wrote: »

.

This really annoys me!oh no they are going to have to work at an inconveniant time:rolleyes:.We are living in a recession here and if they dont want to do their job,there are plenty of people willing!My opinon on the gardai is that there are some very good ones but then there are those who wannabe james bond...give me a break

it really annoys me too, i hate having to go to court on my rest days

seriously though, there is no excuse for bad manners.

TheNog

poisonated wrote: »

This really annoys me!oh no they are going to have to work at an inconveniant time:rolleyes:.We are living in a recession here and if they dont want to do their job,there are plenty of people willing!My opinon on the gardai is that there are some very good ones but then there are those who wannabe james bond...give me a break

i guess if you read the rest of BraveStar's post you might get an understanding of what he/she actually trying to say

poisonated

bo-bo wrote: »

it really annoys me too, i hate having to go to court on my rest days

seriously though, there is no excuse for bad manners.

I didnt mean to be rude but surlely you can understand that they should atleast make the effort to sound interested.afterall the person was looking out for public interest

TheNog

BrianD wrote: »

hi

Perhaps some members of the Garda might be able to help with this. As an upstanding citizen - or so I like to think so - if I see something worth reporting I always will. It doesn't happen very often but every occasion I seem to be greeted with a combination of amateurishness and a lack of interest. Why is this? IS there not a set procedure to follow when a member of the public reports an incident or something of note?

This morning for example, I saw two very drunk individuals at the corner of Macken and Pearse St. One was urinating on a shop window while his colleague went to grab a passing woman. The guy was so drunk that he missed (almost cartoonish) and the woman walked on oblivious to her near miss. Clearly these guys were going to cause trouble.

So I drive on, pull in, ring directory enquiries, get the number for Pearse St Garda Stn. A female answers the phone. I tell her what's happened, she interrupts and asks "was he endangering traffic" and generally sounds uninterested. I had to volunteer discriptions and then she says thanks and hangs up. Now unless she has a great mind or fast with a pencil she would have no details of where the incident happened. She didn;t ask my name or number. Nor did she say if they would take any action.

Surely the Garda should have a short form that they can record and then verify and incident a member of the public calls in? Can they not even pretend that there will some follow up? I can only describe this type of behaviour as amateurish and it doesn't instill any respect or confidence of ordinary people in the Garda.

Any comments?

Did you see any patrol car pull up to these two men sometime afterwards?

bo-bo

poisonated wrote: »

I didnt mean to be rude but surlely you can understand that they should atleast make the effort to sound interested.afterall the person was looking out for public interest

sorry, the second part of my last post wasnt directed at you, i was refering to the ops experience.

Dave147

Random wrote: »

They were busy eating donuts!

****

Really though, it would be nice if she could just simply enter "John Doe called and told us about 2 drunks pissing on a wall next to Easons. He gave us xyz info". Then she could give you a reference number and off we go.

I guess it would be pointless because "there's more important things for Gardai to do" but at the same time at least the information would be recorded if it was required in the future.

They're too busy collecting revenue.. :P No harm in sending a car over and moving the two lads on.. I've often pulled in and reported an incident, be it a fight or something that looks like kicking off. My personal opinion is that these drunks and junkies should just be put down, they're a drain on our resources and offer nothing of any benefit to anyone except other junkies.

Relevant

Someone else may have just called about it and they may have had all the necessary information. Since they werent endangering traffic they may have been down the priority list. The Garda who answered may have recieved previous calls and had all the info ond all she needed to know was whether there was any material change from the information already to hand. Also it may have been all on CCTV

Doesnt excuse rudeness obv

BrianD

BrianD wrote: »

hi

Perhaps some members of the Garda might be able to help with this. As an upstanding citizen - or so I like to think so - if I see something worth reporting I always will. It doesn't happen very often but every occasion I seem to be greeted with a combination of amateurishness and a lack of interest. Why is this? IS there not a set procedure to follow when a member of the public reports an incident or something of note?

This morning for example, I saw two very drunk individuals at the corner of Macken and Pearse St. One was urinating on a shop window while his colleague went to grab a passing woman. The guy was so drunk that he missed (almost cartoonish) and the woman walked on oblivious to her near miss. Clearly these guys were going to cause trouble.

So I drive on, pull in, ring directory enquiries, get the number for Pearse St Garda Stn. A female answers the phone. I tell her what's happened, she interrupts and asks "was he endangering traffic" and generally sounds uninterested. I had to volunteer discriptions and then she says thanks and hangs up. Now unless she has a great mind or fast with a pencil she would have no details of where the incident happened. She didn;t ask my name or number. Nor did she say if they would take any action.

Surely the Garda should have a short form that they can record and then verify and incident a member of the public calls in? Can they not even pretend that there will some follow up? I can only describe this type of behaviour as amateurish and it doesn't instill any respect or confidence of ordinary people in the Garda.

Any comments?

Hey Brian, you did the right thing in calling and should keep doing so when you believe it is necessary.

I don't agree with Bravestars account of things. I work in the DMR (Dublin for those who don't know) and some people do call the station rather than 999. Normally the Garda will ask you for lots of details of what you have seen. Others just take the bare minimum. Either way the call gets entered onto our dispatch system and a resource is sent to the call if available. A call like your one doesn't require much info and a call could have been generated within 20 secs.

As for her lack of interest, she may have been passing through the public office and answered the phone for other collegues who were busy. She may have been the only person working in the public office having to take calls and dealing with people calling in person to the counter. That part of Pearse Street may be covered by CCTV and they were aware of the call. Then again she might just be a grumpy person.

BrianD

Relevant wrote: »

Someone else may have just called about it and they may have had all the necessary information. Since they werent endangering traffic they may have been down the priority list. The Garda who answered may have recieved previous calls and had all the info ond all she needed to know was whether there was any material change from the information already to hand. Also it may have been all on CCTV

Doesnt excuse rudeness obv

This guy took a swing at a woman. Had he not been so drunk he would have grabbed her and she would have been on the pavement. I would regard this as serious. The time was 9am in the morning. It's good to see that traffic gets priority!

Is she had the info she could have said so and thanks for the call. There still should be a set form to record the who, what , where and when of a situation and the caller advised that the information is in the system for follow up. My number wasn't taken. What if I was required as a witness?

TheNog wrote:

Did you see any patrol car pull up to these two men sometime afterwards?

No, I didn't nor did I stay around to see if one turned up. The distinct impression I got from the tone of the voice of the garda and the manner in which conversation took place was that follow up was unlikely.

I have reported crimes in both Northern Ireland and Australia by phoning a local police station. On both occasions, a comprehensive report was taken (not a long one but a pertinent one). In the case of the PSNI (or then RUC), I was told that I would be contacted about the progress of my report. Every month for three months, I got a call from the RUC outlining progress. The final call was that my mobile phone was unlikely to be recovered!

In Dublin, I have gone into a shop with two plain clothes gardai and recovered about €500 of my property (that was stolen from my car) and I never heard a word what happened to the shop owner after. Even a call to say that there would be no prosecution or whatever.

It seems to me that the public interface of the Garda is very poor. I know it is unfair to generalise but this is my impression of the force. They would benefit from more "customer service" training and a better system of recording and updating the public when they make a report. It would instill far more public confidence.

BrianD

BrianD wrote: »

This guy took a swing at a woman. Had he not been so drunk he would have grabbed her and she would have been on the pavement. I would regard this as serious. The time was 9am in the morning. It's good to see that traffic gets priority!

Is she had the info she could have said so and thanks for the call. There still should be a set form to record the who, what , where and when of a situation and the caller advised that the information is in the system for follow up. My number wasn't taken. What if I was required as a witness?


No, I didn't nor did I stay around to see if one turned up. The distinct impression I got from the tone of the voice of the garda and the manner in which conversation took place was that follow up was unlikely.

I have reported crimes in both Northern Ireland and Australia by phoning a local police station. On both occasions, a comprehensive report was taken (not a long one but a pertinent one). In the case of the PSNI (or then RUC), I was told that I would be contacted about the progress of my report. Every month for three months, I got a call from the RUC outlining progress. The final call was that my mobile phone was unlikely to be recovered!

In Dublin, I have gone into a shop with two plain clothes gardai and recovered about €500 of my property (that was stolen from my car) and I never heard a word what happened to the shop owner after. Even a call to say that there would be no prosecution or whatever.

It seems to me that the public interface of the Garda is very poor. I know it is unfair to generalise but this is my impression of the force. They would benefit from more "customer service" training and a better system of recording and updating the public when they make a report. It would instill far more public confidence.

Brian, just because you called the Gardai does not mean that a crime has been recorded. The woman who the fella took a swing at would have to make a report as she was the injured party. If she didn't make a report then there is no offence. If a Garda had of witnessed it that is a different story. And if the Gardai met these fellas after you had left the scene they may still have been arrested for one of the Public Order offences.

bravestar

poisonated wrote: »

bravestar wrote: »

.

In the process they may have had to miss a christening, birthday, family occassion, the only night this month they could get a baby sitter because they were required in court/had to stay late in work etc.

QUOTE]

This really annoys me!oh no they are going to have to work at an inconveniant time:rolleyes:.We are living in a recession here and if they dont want to do their job,there are plenty of people willing!My opinon on the gardai is that there are some very good ones but then there are those who wannabe james bond...give me a break

As the Nog already pointed out, if you read the rest of my post you would understand my reason for saying that. Taking it out of context changes the point I was trying to get accross.

BrianD, An Garda Siochana rates far higher on the Public service opinion poll than the PSNI or Australian Police. Do a bit of research on it if you dont believe me. As for more customer service training, better system of updating members of the public etc... There are far more important things in this organisation that need to be sorted out first.

Relevant

BrianD wrote: »

This guy took a swing at a woman. Had he not been so drunk he would have grabbed her and she would have been on the pavement. I would regard this as serious. The time was 9am in the morning. It's good to see that traffic gets priority!

Is she had the info she could have said so and thanks for the call. There still should be a set form to record the who, what , where and when of a situation and the caller advised that the information is in the system for follow up. My number wasn't taken. What if I was required as a witness?

Ah now hold on... You say the guy "took a swing at a woman" Whereas earlier you said "his colleague went to grab a passing woman. The guy was so drunk that he missed (almost cartoonish) and the woman walked on oblivious to her near miss" There is a slight difference between taking a swing at someone and pathetically reaching out at someone in but are so drunk that you miss.

Also you clearly are looking at the justice system through tinted glasses if you think being drunk on Pearse street would get to the stage where witnesses would be required.

BrianD

Relevant wrote: »

Ah now hold on... You say the guy "took a swing at a woman" Whereas earlier you said "his colleague went to grab a passing woman. The guy was so drunk that he missed (almost cartoonish) and the woman walked on oblivious to her near miss" There is a slight difference between taking a swing at someone and pathetically reaching out at someone in but are so drunk that you miss.

Also you clearly are looking at the justice system through tinted glasses if you think being drunk on Pearse street would get to the stage where witnesses would be required.

Relevant ... Taking a swing or going to grab. Same difference for me. The woman was oblivious to the matter. However, if this chap had of made contact the woman would have been on the ground. This was a serious enough event for me to report to the local station. The fact of the matter is that there were two very intoxicated on the police at 9am who were trouble. Any other police force in a civilised country would take action.

I have noted from the above that there seems to be a culture of apology, excuses and "sure what would you know" for what seems to be bad proceedures in the force and this seems to be endemic. Many of my friends have often remarked of a lack of interest and blase treatment by Gardai when they take the time to report an incident. Policing has a preventive element as well.

Personally, as a law abiding citizen I regard the Garda has a shambolic badly trained force that just aren't proactive and seem to be lacking in people skills. This may appear like a sweeping generalisation and I'm sure that I will offend a number of Gardai who take great pride in their work and strive to be better.

Hooch

BrianD wrote: »

Personally, as a law abiding citizen I regard the Garda has a shambolic badly trained force that just aren't proactive and seem to be lacking in people skills. This may appear like a sweeping generalisation and I'm sure that I will offend a number of Gardai who take great pride in their work and strive to be better.

Last time i'll be answering you then, even though I agreed with you at the start, how dare you generalise us. What a childish imature statement, I dont get my way so i'll slag ever Garda in the country.

Get your facts straight before you post. AGS is considered to be one of the best trained Police Services in the world. AGS regularly give advice to other colleges on training and a year doesnt go by when a couple of other services call to Templemore to see the college! Also AGS has a very high ratio of Degrees and Dipliomas.

bo-bo

BrianD wrote: »

I'm sure that I will offend a number of Gardai who take great pride in their work and strive to be better.

that seems to have been you aim from the outset. you opened discussion on a topic you had no real intention of discussing.

you were given answers, comments, possible courses of action etc

what more do you want - this is a public discussion forum, not a vehicle of change for AGS.

Relevant

BrianD wrote: »

Relevant ... Taking a swing or going to grab. Same difference for me. The woman was oblivious to the matter. However, if this chap had of made contact the woman would have been on the ground. This was a serious enough event for me to report to the local station. The fact of the matter is that there were two very intoxicated on the police at 9am who were trouble. Any other police force in a civilised country would take action.

I have noted from the above that there seems to be a culture of apology, excuses and "sure what would you know" for what seems to be bad proceedures in the force and this seems to be endemic. Many of my friends have often remarked of a lack of interest and blase treatment by Gardai when they take the time to report an incident. Policing has a preventive element as well.

Personally, as a law abiding citizen I regard the Garda has a shambolic badly trained force that just aren't proactive and seem to be lacking in people skills. This may appear like a sweeping generalisation and I'm sure that I will offend a number of Gardai who take great pride in their work and strive to be better.

I reckon you were just looking for an excuse to give out when you posted originally. If someone had come on and given a full apology and posted a video of the commissioner kicking the crap out of the person who answered the call you'd still have had a go.

TheNog

BrianD wrote: »

Relevant ... Taking a swing or going to grab. Same difference for me. The woman was oblivious to the matter. However, if this chap had of made contact the woman would have been on the ground. This was a serious enough event for me to report to the local station. The fact of the matter is that there were two very intoxicated on the police at 9am who were trouble. Any other police force in a civilised country would take action.

Everyone here would agree with me in saying that it would be the better result if these men were scoupped up moments after your report. No one would argue with that. Sometimes arrests are made where possible, sometime not.

I have noted from the above that there seems to be a culture of apology, excuses and "sure what would you know" for what seems to be bad proceedures in the force and this seems to be endemic. Many of my friends have often remarked of a lack of interest and blase treatment by Gardai when they take the time to report an incident. Policing has a preventive element as well.

Brian no one here is offering excuses, we are simply offering possiblities to may have happened after you reported the incident. Remember none of us were there so all we can do if offer possiblities of what may have happened afterwards.

But my above text does not address the overall issue of blase Gardai or "sure what would you know". I have been on this forum since its birth and I can put my hand on my heart and say there is not one AGS member posting here who wants to portray that image. We are trying to inform people and give people an insight into our job. We are doing this against the wishes of our management staff and we are doing so at great risk to ourselves and our jobs but I think we feel its time for transparency in our job.

Somethings people will not like what they see and definitely there are somethings we dont like within the job/criminal justice but we are trying. Of course there are members out there who are dis-interested or may appear lazy but tbh you have possibly seen an incident which you havent witnessed before and maybe (and I say maybe) taking it to heart or more serious than it actually is. To us this incident is witnessed time and time again and so we are not shocked by it. Keep in mind though we see some terrible things as do the guys in Ambulance and Fire. Things such as burnt bodies, suicides, cot deaths etc. These are the sort of incidents we do get upset and shocked about.

Personally, as a law abiding citizen I regard the Garda has a shambolic badly trained force that just aren't proactive and seem to be lacking in people skills. This may appear like a sweeping generalisation and I'm sure that I will offend a number of Gardai who take great pride in their work and strive to be better.

Not taking away from your opinion cos you are quite entitled to it but when I was training in the College we were told - "hundreds of good members out there will spend hundreds if not thousands of hours creating good relations with the people of Ireland but it takes one muppet in a uniform to wreck all that in a few minutes. People tend to remember the bad experiences rather than the good ones".

So is that an excuse? Certainly not. So if/when you come across a Garda who treats you badly remember there are a hundred Gardai trying their best. The Criminal Justice system is a very complicated one and yes sometimes we all make mistakes but we make those mistakes with the best of intentions. On occasion those mistakes can result in the loss of life of a Garda.

I hope this never happens to you but just an example for you that I have actually experienced myself:

A woman in her house with her new born baby rang my station on the 999 at 4am saying someone was trying to break into her house. Naturally she was terrified for her safety and the safety of her baby. I was driver in the car ( a 1.4L Focus) with an observer and the public order van (Ford Transit) responded to the call. Now we were in the town about 6 miles from her house with the worst and bendiest (spelling??) road in the country. I dont know how long it took us to get there (time slows down when you are filled with adrenaline) but I will tell you I almost crashed the patrol car three times just to get there. Now I have 2 children whom I love with all my heart and would never do anything to hurt them especially to have to attend my funeral but I still did it cos someone could have been in severe danger and I wanted to help that person who did I not know. The end result of it well it worked out well for that woman. The next day she dropped in a box of chocolates for us with her number for us to call her. We called her to make sure she was okay and to ensure her. We also gave out to her for the box of chocolates (which we finished) saying we were on a diet!! (we were only kidding of course).

The point Im trying to get across is alot of us do this job to help people. To try to make them feel safe in their homes and on the streets. Yes we make mistakes and yes we can be impatient but the same as you can be impatient with people within your job. We are human too.

Having said all that I am a strong believer that if you feel you have been mistreated by any member of AGS then report it to the Ombudsman. Your complaint will be investigated and hopefully you will get some satisfaction from it. The AGS is no longer a closed shop that it was and is something I want to encourage and promote.

I hope you find this post somewhat informative. I am not trying to sway your opinion with heart breaking stuff (cos I do have alot more of it) but I base my reply to show you what our our job is like. It is up to you to make your decision on us.

Just one last note, dont make the mistake that the above example I shared with you applies to me only. This type of incident occurs every day of the year up and down the country