PWC Defer Almost All Grad Intake. My Brother's options?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Hi guys,

Just got the bad news that PWC is deferring almost all, if not all grad intake until next year. At least my brother and all the guys he knew that got offered contracts there have been deferred.

Anyway, what's the best thing my brother could do?

They said they would fund him to do a Masters or fund him to do some of the AITI exams part-time.

I guess it's all down to what exemptions you would obtain?

The only pain is that some of the application closing dates for Masters have already passed, such as the Accounting in NUIG and UCD.

He of course is busy searching the net at the moment at home, I just thought I'd see what response I might get here.

Running Bing

Logan Teeny Beast wrote: »

Hi guys,

Just got the bad news that PWC is deferring almost all, if not all grad intake until next year. At least my brother and all the guys he knew that got offered contracts there have been deferred.

Anyway, what's the best thing my brother could do?

They said they would fund him to do a Masters or fund him to do some of the AITI exams part-time.

I guess it's all down to what exemptions you would obtain?

The only pain is that some of the application closing dates for Masters have already passed, such as the Accounting in NUIG and UCD.

He of course is busy searching the net at the moment at home, I just thought I'd see what response I might get here.

You sure about that? Seems very harsh and short notice?

So is it all the people who are due to start this year or just people who got offered a job in the last milkround (i.e. does it include people on masters or diploma courses)?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Running Bing wrote: »

You sure about that? Seems very harsh and short notice?

So is it all the people who are due to start this year or just people who got offered a job in the last milkround (i.e. does it include people on masters or diploma courses)?

Definitely sure about it, he was talking to them.

As far as I can tell right now, it appears that it's affecting most, if not all the degree grads.

He was offered the job and signed a contract a few months back. They were due to start in October.

It's quite an unfortunate shock. At the moment he's looking at college websites for post-grad courses and see what he can do.

Running Bing

Logan Teeny Beast wrote: »

Definitely sure about it, he was talking to them.

As far as I can tell right now, it appears that it's affecting most, if not all the degree grads.

He was offered the job and signed a contract a few months back. They were due to start in October.

It's quite an unfortunate shock. At the moment he's looking at college websites for post-grad courses and see what he can do.

Is the profession really in that bad shape?

Anybody else feel maybe the accountancy firms are living up to stereotypes and being overly prudent?

I mean obviously every profession is going to be feeling the recession but audit has to be safer than most. All these pay cuts, pay freezes deferred intakes and general doom and gloom just seem overblown to me looking from the outside in.


I mean the banks are in a torrid shape but as far as employees go there doesnt seem to be the same pessimism as with accountants e.g. no pay cuts in the banks who are taking millions in tax payers money to stay afloat.

jayteecork

Funding your brother to do a masters sounds sweet.

What's the problem?

um7y1h83ge06nx

jayteecork wrote: »

Funding your brother to do a masters sounds sweet.

What's the problem?

The pain in the neck is that the application closing date has expired for some of them, plus with things being the way they are these days, the demand for courses will be increasing quite a bit.

He'd probably being happy enough if he got accepted for a decent Masters I suppose.

Running Bing

jayteecork wrote: »

Funding your brother to do a masters sounds sweet.

What's the problem?

If pwc are deferring their whole intake its going to be very hard to get onto a masters programme I would imagine.

Plus even aside from that everybody seems to be doing masters now. Anyway even if accepted it just would'nt suit a lot of people and could be a pain in the arse. Im starting in another firm in September and certainly would not like to be deferred.

prinz

Running Bing wrote: »

Is the profession really in that bad shape?

Anybody else feel maybe the accountancy firms are living up to stereotypes and being overly prudent?

I mean obviously every profession is going to be feeling the recession but audit has to be safer than most. All these pay cuts, pay freezes deferred intakes and general doom and gloom just seem overblown to me looking from the outside in.


I mean the banks are in a torrid shape but as far as employees go there doesnt seem to be the same pessimism as with accountants e.g. no pay cuts in the banks who are taking millions in tax payers money to stay afloat.

To a large degree yes. I work in a small enough firm but I certainly feel as if they are using the current economic climate to their advantage.

I know from seeing the breakdown of fee notes that what is being billed per hour for my work since I started in 2007 has more than doubled, but the firm has not done any pay review in my case anyway, in 2007 I was told it would be done after I passed CAP 1, when I passed CAP1 I was told it would be done in January of this year, when January came around due to present economic difficulties a pay review could not be done and may be done at the end of this year (frankly I cannot see any change then).

Basically I feel cheated, and my work/study motivation has gone through the floor. I am actually worse off per month now with the Income Levy, than I was when I started with the company, despite almost 2 and half service and doing my CAP2's in a few weeks. Yet they are expecting more hours/responsibility/commitment etc.

All I know is that is not going to be me in years to come. It's put me off the profession, practice anyway.

Hanley

prinz wrote: »

To a large degree yes. I work in a small enough firm but I certainly feel as if they are using the current economic climate to their advantage.

I know from seeing the breakdown of fee notes that what is being billed per hour for my work since I started in 2007 has more than doubled, but the firm has not done any pay review in my case anyway, in 2007 I was told it would be done after I passed CAP 1, when I passed CAP1 I was told it would be done in January of this year, when January came around due to present economic difficulties a pay review could not be done and may be done at the end of this year (frankly I cannot see any change then).

Basically I feel cheated, and my work/study motivation has gone through the floor. I am actually worse off per month now with the Income Levy, than I was when I started with the company, despite almost 2 and half service and doing my CAP2's in a few weeks. Yet they are expecting more hours/responsibility/commitment etc.

All I know is that is not going to be me in years to come. It's put me off the profession, practice anyway.

Seems to be pervasive (wahey, been studying auditing all day) speaking with the guys in the intakes ahead of me in a large medium firm too!!

The thing that's really hard to reconcile (oh yes!) is that as the fully qualified guys are leaving/being let go the wage bill is being reduced, intakes are moving up a grade and their fees are following, and despite this two pronged attack on the fee income and wage bill, no-one's getting uplifts in their reviews, and most are just happy not to be having their pay cut.

I can't say how bad a state the industry is in at the moment because I haven't seen the financials, but from an employee's perspective, things are very bad.

And OP, see if PWC HR can swing a deal with the college's re: getting accepted to a course with a passed deadline since they're the ones who've dropped the ball. Alternately go IATI!!

I heard someone I went to college with just fnished in Smurfit after being bankrolled by PWC and they asked them to defer this year and offered around 5k, but they refused.

tywy

I heard PWC were offering €5k to defer... I didn't think it was compulsory...

meriwether

Your brother should do whatever it is that makes it less likely he will end up as an accountant.
I work in a big 4 firm, but in a Corp Finance/Restructurng function. I observed with awe the way newly out of contract audit/tax people were discarded after the busy season was over.

Life's too short to deal with these people. See if he can get 5k, and head off travelling, or do a masters, or something. But dont end up looking at audit accounts for the rest of his life.

defiantshrimp

tywy wrote: »

I heard PWC were offering €5k to defer... I didn't think it was compulsory...

Yeah, that's the case AFAIK.

Super_Sonic: what divison was your bro to join? Did he get the deferral offer like the rest of the grads?

DJDC

Your brother should do whatever it is that makes it less likely he will end up as an accountant.

This. Accountancy as a profession in Ireland is moving towards a low paid low status profession. Salaries for qualified ACA's are dropping all the time. If your brother has any balls/smarts he will be looking elsewhere like London to get a real job.

ninty9er

PWC has entered into a contract, it's a legally binding document. Seek legal advice from a VERY good local solicitor. Looking at your location I would suggest Holmes O'Malley Sexton or Sweeny McGann.

It may amount to nothing, but if he's been left out of pocket to the tune of a year's salary with not enough time to apply for a masters, PWC will not want to drag that sort of publicity on itself.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Well he and the rest of the lads got the letter about a month or two ago, saying that there was the optional deferral of a year with €5K taxable.

Yesterday they got a phone call from HR, saying that they were making it compulsory.

With the economic climate changing so rapidly, my brother and his friends were rapidly lowering their expectations, being open to taking paycuts and just wanted to be kept on long enough to do all their professional exams.

Anyone here have any opinion of the different Masters of Accounting and related courses in the different colleges?

As one poster said, I told him to try and speak with HR to help him as much as possible to get him onto a course.

The one thing we're fearful of is what happens in things get worse over the coming year? There is no guarantee that they will take him in next year either.

Running Bing

meriwether wrote: »

Your brother should do whatever it is that makes it less likely he will end up as an accountant.
I work in a big 4 firm, but in a Corp Finance/Restructurng function. I observed with awe the way newly out of contract audit/tax people were discarded after the busy season was over.

Life's too short to deal with these people. See if he can get 5k, and head off travelling, or do a masters, or something. But dont end up looking at audit accounts for the rest of his life.

and what do you suggest he does after he p1sses away 5k travelling around the world?


Law perhaps? Banking (AIB had no grad recruitment this year as far as I know)? Maybe he can land himself a job with Viper Foley's debt collection agency?

um7y1h83ge06nx

Running Bing wrote: »

and what do you suggest he does after he p1sses away 5k travelling around the world?


Law perhaps? Banking (AIB had no grad recruitment this year as far as I know)? Maybe he can land himself a job with Viper Foley's debt collection agency?

Well said.

I don't want to say too much to indicate who my brother is, but he wasn't going to be working in auditing.

He was hoping that this department wouldn't get hit as bad as auditing. Look like he was wrong though.

I'm in the I.T. industry and as an outsider looking into accounting, I always saw the big 4 as being very safe and very optimistic about their future. I know of a girl, fully qualified in one of the big 4. It sounded like it was all party, party. Herself and her boyfriend (in a dfferent one of the big 4) are renting a €1900 a month 2 bed apartment :eek:.

It seems that the wheels have rapidly came off the wagon in recent months. All the optimism and party, party outlook has been replaced by a sense of fear for their own jobs.

I'm open to correction here, but I have seen accounting as bit of a bandwagon, just like I.T. was a few years back. It seems like a good bet, good money, good prospects, so everyone wants to do it. However I thought it would be another 5 years or so before things might turn sour.

I don't want to be too negative, but with so many bad news stories about jobs in different industries, it just shows (as if we needed to be shown) that our economy is in dire trouble.

meriwether

Running Bing wrote: »

and what do you suggest he does after he p1sses away 5k travelling around the world?


Law perhaps? Banking (AIB had no grad recruitment this year as far as I know)? Maybe he can land himself a job with Viper Foley's debt collection agency?

You're right. Looks like Viper Foley's debt collection agency is the only option to someone who doesn't do accounting.

And as for pissing away 5k travelling, travelling is a great experience. It is also a nice way to spend part of this recession as you wait for things to turn around.

I mean, what would you prefer to do - collect debts for the Viper in Arklow until he gets his PWC spot (nothing else for ther poor sod to do), or see South America, Oz or Africa?

viztopia

is it true that Deloittes are offering staff paid leave of 3 - 4 months?

Hanley

viztopia wrote: »

is it true that Deloittes are offering staff paid leave of 3 - 4 months?

They offered a year off to a lot of their tax grads with circa 50% of their salary.

I REALLY doubt they're offering 3-4 months fully paid leave. Would make absolutely no sense tbh.

brickmaster

As far as i know, they have delayed the start date of some tax employees until april. So its not paid time off

censuspro

Do a masters and get exempt up to the FAE's or,

Go traveling and enjoy himself.

JD1763

DCU MBS in Accounting is accepting apps until July:

http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=MBS&mode=full&originating_school=

As long as he's already exempt from CAP 1, completing this just leaves CAP 3. So glad I didn't go with PWC now.

LightningBolt

Maynooth's course is open for application till July also.

http://graduatestudies.nuim.ie/prospectivepostgrads/taughtcourses/socialsciences/mhh62

aoibhebree

God, I'm so relieved I didn't accept their offer, I was very tempted to but went for one of the other big firms instead ... but does anyone know what's the likelihood of the rest of them doing the same??

LightningBolt

To be honest there's a lot of shuffling about going on in the big firms. It was gonna happen given how quickly the economy declined and the massive amounts of grads they took on in 2006 and 2007. I'd imagine it'll take a year or two to correct staffing levels at lower levels and then things will be back to normal work wise(just a hell of a lot harder to get into).

For anybody without a contract the institute have also made a special provision this year for masters students with full cap 2 exemptions to go and do the FAE solo. Not sure if it'd be wise given that most people do them with a mininum of 18-20months work experience behind them.

Innervision

I know people starting in PWC this autumn, they were offered the €5k but declined it and they have start dates in October...so it's not happening everyone starting in PWC anyway!

MrMatisse

Logan Teeny Beast wrote: »

Well said.

I don't want to say too much to indicate who my brother is, but he wasn't going to be working in auditing.

He was hoping that this department wouldn't get hit as bad as auditing. Look like he was wrong though.

I'm in the I.T. industry and as an outsider looking into accounting, I always saw the big 4 as being very safe and very optimistic about their future. I know of a girl, fully qualified in one of the big 4. It sounded like it was all party, party. Herself and her boyfriend (in a dfferent one of the big 4) are renting a €1900 a month 2 bed apartment :eek:.

It seems that the wheels have rapidly came off the wagon in recent months. All the optimism and party, party outlook has been replaced by a sense of fear for their own jobs.

I'm open to correction here, but I have seen accounting as bit of a bandwagon, just like I.T. was a few years back. It seems like a good bet, good money, good prospects, so everyone wants to do it. However I thought it would be another 5 years or so before things might turn sour.

I don't want to be too negative, but with so many bad news stories about jobs in different industries, it just shows (as if we needed to be shown) that our economy is in dire trouble.

Have to agree with this post. It was a bandwagon. Too many people signed up (like me) and now there is oversupply, wages are falling and job security is gone. This is a long term problem as two huge intakes will hit a shrinking jobs market in 2011 and 2012. You tolerate the boring work and slog to get the qualification and good money at the end but when that goes.....

stepbar

I do know BOI were offering grads 5k to walk away from contracts as early as last year, so it does not surprise me that PWC are doing same to reduce the headcount. HR folk are so full of sh1te. If one was smart enough, a contract has been signed and as such (unless there is a specific condition) must be honoured.

djdeclan

Am I not right in saying that you don't actually sign your training contract until you actually start (thats how it was for me anyway) the mickey mouse thing you sign before you start is pretty worthless I would have thought..

Hanley

djdeclan wrote: »

Am I not right in saying that you don't actually sign your training contract until you actually start (thats how it was for me anyway) the mickey mouse thing you sign before you start is pretty worthless I would have thought..

Your institute contract isn't signed until after you start, but the actual contract of employment is signed in November/December the year before you start afaik. That was the process I went thru anyway.

Hackysack

viztopia wrote: »

is it true that Deloittes are offering staff paid leave of 3 - 4 months?

Yes. My friend is taking that. It was only offered to first years in the firm. They can take from 1-4 months for a fixed sum (my friend said it was less than half of his monthly pay).

The bastard's going traveling. Grr.

defiantshrimp

Hackysack wrote: »

Yes. My friend is taking that. It was only offered to first years in the firm. They can take from 1-4 months for a fixed sum (my friend said it was less than half of his monthly pay).

The bastard's going traveling. Grr.

I take it that taking the time off would increase your training contract's length? So your 3 years becomes 3 years and 1-4 months? Seems like a good deal though!

Hackysack

Yeah I'd imagine so.

It wouldn't exactly be fair on the rest of us would it!

Arkle

I dont know how your Brother got on in the end, but I know from my cuz who works there that they didnt defer all grad offers, only some. I know they handled it reasonably well, and rang her, and other people personally and offered people options to do a Masters etc too. Seems like they did the decent things as much as they cud. My cuz was shocked initially but thinjs they handled it well. Dont know if the other big 4 did the same?

clearya

Well I'll tell you what I know about EY so far...I'll be starting there on Aug 28th and they flyin us over to london the day before for induction!

Was supposed to be getting 24k but got a letter this week and as there are pay cuts we now getting 22.5k. Also paid overtime and time in lieu are out the door.

Apart from that I haven't heard about them deferring grad intake, I suppose they do take in less grads than the other 3 but will be receiving more info from them over the coming weeks.

I'd imagine anyone who misses the 2:1 grade will be deffo out the door.

prinz

clearya wrote: »

Was supposed to be getting 24k but got a letter this week and as there are pay cuts we now getting 22.5k. Also paid overtime and time in lieu are out the door.

Be grateful you're getting that much. Sitting my CAP2 soon, two and a half years with the company and I'm on less than that.

Arkle

Think that 2.1s are the norm everywhere now.

clearya

prinz wrote: »

Be grateful you're getting that much. Sitting my CAP2 soon, two and a half years with the company and I'm on less than that.

I'm extremely grateful to have a job the way things have gone...especially when I have friends struggling to get anything.

And doesn't seem fair that you'd be getting less than the newbies Do you work at EY or are you PWC??

prinz

clearya wrote: »

And doesn't seem fair that you'd be getting less than the newbies Do you work at EY or are you PWC??

No, small practice :pac:. They can screw us over much more. Big firm wouldn't get away with it.

Any good job getting hired, best of luck.

clearya

prinz wrote: »

No, small practice :pac:. They can screw us over much more. Big firm wouldn't get away with it.

Any good job getting hired, best of luck.

Thanks, just have to wait until the 22nd to see if I've secured my 2:1...what I'd give to never have to sit an exam ever again!

Best of luck with your exams

Running Bing

prinz wrote: »

No, small practice :pac:. They can screw us over much more. Big firm wouldn't get away with it.

Thats not comparing like with like then. There would be plenty of people who would say just be happy you have a job. Personally I think its a bit of a naive self depreciating attitude.


Starting salary in EY is higher than in some other big 4's (although I have not heard of a freeze on paid overtime....that seems very harsh!).

Pretty sweet going to London for the induction too:D