Thoughts on the state of irish poker and where it may be in 10 years

JonRyan

Where do you think irish poker will be in 10 years. Do you think it has got better or worse and in general how has the game progressed in in this past 5 years.

Ability wise - i think the standard has improved alot. You have lots of young players getting big results and showing that they can and in some cases, already have, made a name for themselves

Tournaments - I personally believe the idea to scrap the irish ept was good. I'm not 100% sure why i think that but in general i think it was good for us. We have great tournaments such as the ipc, ipo and even the fitz monthly is getting to be huge these days:pac:. The irish open run by pp obviously needs drastic improvement. if they don't get with the times then im afraid the irish open, which i believe to be one of the biggest and well know tournaments around, may cease to happen

In general - i think poker in ireland is on the up and the future looks bright what with so many clubs opening, it has to be a sign that more and more people are starting to play



what are your thoughts on the 3 points?

jon

AdMMM

I think scrapping the EPT was in a way bad. I think we should have an EPT, just not at the buyin it previously demanded. Quite simply, only a handful of Irish pros could afford to play it and it would affect their ability to play in other events. There's a big circuit following of the EPT and it would be sure to bring tonnes of players across to our shore. Of course that brings up the question of a Viking-esque Scandinavian hit and run of our tournaments.

I agree with you that we have a lot of great tournaments, one could argue that we probably have too many! The one positive it that we now have the best structured tournaments in Europe and I don't think any of the main organisers in Ireland can be accused of running crapshooty tournaments with little or no value. The downside to the sheer amount of tournaments running is that we have degenerates going bust left, right and centre.

As for where poker will be in 10 years? I don't honestly know. I'd like to think that I have my finger on the pulse of the goings on of the scene, but pokers future is all up in the air. I definitely don't think it's growing at the same rate as it was. Poker was all the rage in colleges up until a year or two a go, but now students are finding something else to keep them entertained and we'll see the effect of this in years to come.

nicnicnic

to say the IPC is a great tournament and the IO needs drastic improvement makes my question your understanding/intentions. I'm knocking the IO structure for the past three years here but the IPC isn't the tournament to compare it to as the structure is practically the same. If your talking about peripherals surrounding and the production of the events then PPP cant be faulted.

The tournaments that are truly innovative and giving the most value to players are the JP Masters, the Macau Classic and the GJP Deepstack (although structure still needs tweaking). These events put the IPC and IO to shame with the structure offered to players. The value being offered in these is mirrored in smaller events offered by operators like the Cueclub/Bigslick, Brucepoker and others.

As to where Poker will be in 10 years time; well I'd say its safe for the next five years holding it current status or even still growing slightly but I'd imagine were close to a peak of a cycle. I think it will go something like snooker as a pass time. Snooker peaked in the 80s with clubs in every town in the country. Gradually the game lost its attraction for most and while there will always be a few clubs around its hayday is well passed. I think tournaments like the IO, IPC and probably 4/5 others will always be with us as will some clubs and the net but the vast majority who play today will not be playing in ten yearts time.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

a-k-47

why have you stopped playing poker? thought you loved the game?... standard online has improved, im sure its the same donkeys live.

Hitman Actual

JonRyan wrote: »

In general - i think poker in ireland is on the up and the future looks bright what with so many clubs opening, it has to be a sign that more and more people are starting to play

This comment would have made sense 3 or 4 years ago, but I don't think it applies now. Admittedly, I haven't been following the poker scene as much as I used to, but how many new clubs have opened in, say, the last 2 years? Also, the one non-Dublin club that I still frequent for the occasional drunken degeneracy seems to be relying very much on the gaming floor for it's profits now (assuming they're still operating in the black). A few years ago there would have been a NLHE game every night it was open (5 nights a week, iirc), it now seems to be limited to a couple of nights a week. The game is also playing a lot smaller- on occasion it played as high as 25-50, but now the regular game is 5-5NL. The players I knew just don't have the money to spare that they used to. Live poker peaked 3 or 4 years ago, imo, at least for clubs outside Dublin, and numbers have dipped considerably in the last year or so.

Lao Lao

JonRyan wrote: »

.

The irish open run by pp obviously needs drastic improvement. if they don't get with the times then im afraid the irish open, which i believe to be one of the biggest and well know tournaments around, may cease to happen

Could you elaberate on this please?

AdMMM wrote: »

Poker was all the rage in colleges up until a year or two a go, but now students are finding something else to keep them entertained and we'll see the effect of this in years to come.

Apparently, they're all into photography now!

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hmm. What do people make of this? It was god awful when I stopped playing last year. Could it really have gotten any better in a few months - particularly when there appears to have been an influx of new players in the live arena?

I don't play live nearly as often as I used to but when I do venture out, I don't think the overall standard has improved much, if at all. A lot of people talk a very good game when playing live but very seldom play it.

Fatboydim

To pick up Nic's points - I actually think that some of the deepstack tournaments are over indulgent in so far as they favour a certain type of play. Some people will prefer them no doubt and some won't. I particular like the 6 handed table tourneys for example - but their just a different beast. It's an interesting argument about value and play, and I think that Nic is right that the IO as a flagship tournament could be improved in terms of levels and maybe even clock, but then again I never saw anything wrong in the classic WSOP structure.

Overall I don't think play is better or worse - just different. Sitting tight waiting for big hands was the way to play a few years ago - now it's hyper aggresion. The button was the place to raise in days gone by, now it's the cut off. Although Irish position UTG is now a favourite position to bluff in. However it all comes back round again.

For the size of our population we punch well above our weight.

scull2009

AdMMM wrote: »

Poker was all the rage in colleges up until a year or two a go, but now students are finding something else to keep them entertained and we'll see the effect of this in years to come.

i agree with this, we played poker every day at uni about 4 years ago, that was at the time of no decent games consoles, now at uni's its more xbox 360 and ps3 online gaming i think

karpov33

i think the down turn in the economy will effect poker in Ireland in the next few years. Poker clubs will have to run cheaper buy in tourneys, and fewer players will play cash . Dont go on dragons den with a poker club idea

nicnicnic

Fatboydim wrote: »

To pick up Nic's points - I actually think that some of the deepstack tournaments are over indulgent in so far as they favour a certain type of play. Some people will prefer them no doubt and some won't. I particular like the 6 handed table tourneys for example - but their just a different beast. It's an interesting argument about value and play, and I think that Nic is right that the IO as a flagship tournament could be improved in terms of levels and maybe even clock, but then again I never saw anything wrong in the classic WSOP structure.

When I'm talking about good structures Len I'm not looking for loads of starting chips per se. Generally Tournaments have to much play early and to little late. With huge amounts of money a stake players whom battle there way through huge fields find themselves at the meat of a tournament playing 10-20 bigblinds average stacks. There is no poker left in this average and 19/20 times its the person whom runs the best wins rather the person that plays the best.

For decent buy in multi-day events I think the average bigblind should remain over 30 BBs at least. It's about balance and people like JP and Ken in the Macau have produced events over the last couple of years that have achieved balanced structures that allow good play in later stages yet finish in the same time frame as lesser structured events.

Personally I feel if I have an average stack I should be able to 3-bet fold, which I can with a 30/40 stack but cant with a 10/20.

corkie123

nicnicnic wrote: »

When I'm talking about good structures Len I'm not looking for loads of starting chips per se. Generally Tournaments have to much play early and to little late. With huge amounts of money a stake players whom battle there way through huge fields find themselves at the meat of a tournament playing 10-20 bigblinds average stacks. There is no poker left in this average and 19/20 times its the person whom runs the best wins rather the person that plays the best.

For decent buy in multi-day events I think the average bigblind should remain over 30 BBs at least. It's about balance and people like JP and Ken in the Macau have produced events over the last couple of years that have achieved balanced structures that allow good play in later stages yet finish in the same time frame as lesser structured events.

Personally I feel if I have an average stack I should be able to 3-bet fold, which I can with a 30/40 stack but cant with a 10/20.

double burger chips and bean free next time in cork for u, ken said might even give fish if your really nice ;):D:D

phantom_lord

nicnicnic wrote: »

Personally I feel if I have an average stack I should be able to 4bet shove with air, which I can with a 30/40 stack but cant with a 10/20.

fyp :pac:

Slash/ED

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Could it really have gotten any better in a few months -

No, basically. Not that I've seen.

JonRyan

nicnicnic wrote: »

If your talking about peripherals surrounding and the production of the events then PPP cant be faulted.

The tournaments that are truly innovative and giving the most value to players are the JP Masters, the Macau Classic and the GJP Deepstack (although structure still needs tweaking). These events put the IPC and IO to shame with the structure offered to players. but the vast majority who play today will not be playing in ten yearts time.

This is all very true. PP organisations skills are 100% but when talking about stucture wise, they are very poor. Someone mentioned about the fact that they where happy with the old WSOP main event so in turn where happy with the irish open. Thats all well and good but poker has moved on a lot from that and in turn pp need to do the same

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hmm. What do people make of this? It was god awful when I stopped playing last year. Could it really have gotten any better in a few months - particularly when there appears to have been an influx of new players in the live arena?

Imo it really has improved a lot. Gone are the days when you could make a living playing the .50/1 game in the fitz

Hitman Actual wrote: »

This comment would have made sense 3 or 4 years ago, but I don't think it applies now. Admittedly, I haven't been following the poker scene as much as I used to, but how many new clubs have opened in, say, the last 2 years?

You would be quite suprised. I know of at least 6 myself but i'm sure there are a lot more

Lao Lao wrote: »

Could you elaberate on this please?

As nicnicnic says the structure is terrible. For such a large event it really needs to get with the times. you see big name pro's flying from all over the world to take part in the ept's. there is no reason why the irish open can't have a lot more big names. i'm not sure why they are not willing to tweak it. Would ading another day help at all? I admit i am not the person to be talking to about structures but i know a good one when i take part in a tournament and you should always have 20-30 bbs to use

Goodluck2me

JonRyan wrote: »

The irish open run by pp obviously needs drastic improvement. if they don't get with the times then im afraid the irish open, which i believe to be one of the biggest and well know tournaments around, may cease to happen

Why do you think it is, if it needs DRASTIC improvement. Tweaks maybe, but hardly drastic!

JonRyan wrote: »

You see big name pro's flying from all over the world to take part in the ept's. there is no reason why the irish open can't have a lot more big names. i'm not sure why they are not willing to tweak it.

Eh Doyle Brunson, Andy Black, Phil Laak, Esfandiari, Jennifer Tilly, Brian townsend, Sorel Mizzi, Todd Brunson, Annette_15, Think Barry Greenstein amongst others - what are you on about?

Lazare

Poker in 10 years time?

Same degens with less hair.

karpov33

and less money

JonRyan

goodluck2me wrote: »

Why do you think it is, if it needs DRASTIC improvement. Tweaks maybe, but hardly drastic!

Eh Doyle Brunson, Andy Black, Phil Laak, Esfandiari, Jennifer Tilly, Brian townsend, Sorel Mizzi, Todd Brunson, Annette_15, Think Barry Greenstein amongst others - what are you on about?

With regards to the players. Would Doyle come if it was not in memory of his old friend? You would expect Andy to play anyway as it is his home tournament. I assume Todd only came because his dad came. Same reason for Brian with regards to kara going by what he said in his blog. I don't think Sorel would even be back had he not final table an earlier one. I guarantee you if the structure does not change in the near future, less and less people will play it and the so called pro's that come, will be considerably less

JonRyan

The fact is that when all of the pro's from around the world are doing up their list at the start of the year of which events to play, the irish open is definately not on their mind. Imo it should be an event that they are bending over backwards to play. But if you think that everything is fine with the irish open and it will continue, then you are wrong

max_power

Who the **** cares about the 'pro's' and what tournies they play. The structure should be improved for the average punter and not just for his holiness doyle. Anyway the main reason none of the big names play is cause it's only a 3.5k buyin, no American pro in his right mind would bother his arse.

dannydiamond

JonRyan wrote: »

Imo it should be an event that they are bending over backwards to play.

Why?

They have a 10k buyin practically every week without having to fly across the atlantic to play?

You seem to be terribly misguided in how you perceive the Irish open,why would all the 'big name pros' be so keen to play it?

JonRyan

Dedication
Balls
Courtesy

these things are all required and paddy power have none of them

KevIRL

I think we have pandered to this clown long enough