Boxer (with a tail :)-obedience issues/Neuter???

thebullkf

Hi All.

I have a boxer whos approx one now-we rescued him along with 6 of his siblings from a selfish/ignorant [EMAIL="tw@t"]tw@t[/EMAIL] (all others in good homes )
and we've just the one.
My quandary is; to neuter or not to neuter?
why would you neuter anyway?
I've been told that it 'ahem' takes some spring out oftheir step...
Mine is extremely boisterous and in fact a tad overwhelming for my young son whos 3.
We brought him for training over a 4 week period (1 night a week)
@ 6months and whilst the girlsthere were excellent it hasn't helped at all !!
In fairness mywife and I didn't keep up with the training for very long for a myriad of reasons but one of them was that it just didn't work for us.
sure he sits when he thinks/knows i have a treat for hm but otherwise he's unresponsive,he strains at the lead constantly and even with the harness itsbecoming more difficult to walk him,so much so that my wife can't!!!

will neutering him make him more receptive/pliable?

he goes crazy when he sees another dog and god forbid when he gets out the gate!-20 mins to cajole him back in and only with the bribery of food

is there anywhere out there that can help us train him better?

i walk him a minimum of once aday-min 35mins but his energy is unreal
i'm wondering am i doing something wrong?

he seems happy enough but he won't;

sit

come when called

listen to anything i say no matter how itry to reinfoce and reward the little good behaviour he does display.

i really want the best for him but maybe i just can't give him the time and one on one company he needs??
i can't really afford an expensive training regime but i feel its what we need as a family-and i do regard him as one of us we all do-

its just..

so frustrating.

any help appreciated.

maybe giving him away to someone who has the time,money and patience to give him what he needs is the best solution...

Jules

Ok you will get a barrage of points of view on neutering pros and cons on him being an puppy and being full of energy and needing to be walked for a good 2-3 hours a day, which he does need!

The professional point of view on neutering is this... YES ITS A GOOD IDEA, and these reason a a few fold which i will lay out!

Neutering male dogs benefits the animal in several ways. It virtually
eliminates unwanted "male behaviors" including marking territory
(urinating) in the house and decreasing aggression. This is very important
when there are young children in the household.

Neutering also decreases the animal’s tendency to escape from the yard
and wander off. Male dogs can sense a female dog in heat from great
distances and will do anything to find her. Animals that get loose
frequently get injured or killed fighting with other dogs or by being hit by a
car.

Neutering also has direct benefits on the animal’s health. By removing the
testicles, the procedure eliminates the possibility of the animal developing
testicular cancer and other testicular diseases. It also significantly reduces
the chance of the animal ever developing prostate gland disease such as
prostatic hypertrophy (enlargement), infection, cysts, or cancer.

Older, intact male dogs often develop cancer of glands that are located in
the skin around the anus (perianal adenocarcinoma). This condition can
lead to severe and very painful ulcers around the anus which may require
extensive surgery to repair. They are also more prone to developing a
"perineal hernia", which is a tear in the pelvic wall. Abdominal organs
such as the rectum or bladder can travel through this hole and become
entrapped. Both of these conditions can be prevented by early neutering.

So basically it is a good idea, but as i said you have to remember you are dealing with a puppy, who like a small child will push boundries etc you need to put the time and energy into training them. You have do a very honourable thing by rescuing him and his siblings, but maybe rehoming him will be better if you don't have enough time on your hands.

thebullkf

Jules wrote: »

Ok you will get a barrage of points of view on neutering pros and cons on him being an puppy and being full of energy and needing to be walked for a good 2-3 hours a day, which he does need!

The professional point of view on neutering is this... YES ITS A GOOD IDEA, and these reason a a few fold which i will lay out!

Neutering male dogs benefits the animal in several ways. It virtually
eliminates unwanted "male behaviors" including marking territory
(urinating) in the house and decreasing aggression. This is very important
when there are young children in the household.

Neutering also decreases the animal’s tendency to escape from the yard
and wander off. Male dogs can sense a female dog in heat from great
distances and will do anything to find her. Animals that get loose
frequently get injured or killed fighting with other dogs or by being hit by a
car.

Neutering also has direct benefits on the animal’s health. By removing the
testicles, the procedure eliminates the possibility of the animal developing
testicular cancer and other testicular diseases. It also significantly reduces
the chance of the animal ever developing prostate gland disease such as
prostatic hypertrophy (enlargement), infection, cysts, or cancer.

Older, intact male dogs often develop cancer of glands that are located in
the skin around the anus (perianal adenocarcinoma). This condition can
lead to severe and very painful ulcers around the anus which may require
extensive surgery to repair. They are also more prone to developing a
"perineal hernia", which is a tear in the pelvic wall. Abdominal organs
such as the rectum or bladder can travel through this hole and become
entrapped. Both of these conditions can be prevented by early neutering.

So basically it is a good idea, but as i said you have to remember you are dealing with a puppy, who like a small child will push boundries etc you need to put the time and energy into training them. You have do a very honourable thing by rescuing him and his siblings, but maybe rehoming him will be better if you don't have enough time on your hands.

thanks jules... i think my heart is ruling my head as we'd all be devestated to give him away... but i think itmay be the best option for him.
my son especially has developed a strong bond with him and even though he easily over[powers him hes never even snapped at him -despite the ear pulling and tail grabbing(now no more thank god)..

we just don't wanna lose him-but methinks the reality is that he'll have to go.... unless

do you know of any reasonable trainers in the dublin area?

or anyone else for that matter??

i live in north dublin.

thanks again.:)

Jules

I'm south side so not sure of northside trainers. Your local vet should be able to give you info on some or if you jsut ring around, and honestly take the time you explain your situation to them and im sure they should be able to help you out in some way. I would also, as always, suggest you get this boy insured. Even if you don't keep hold of him you can cancel it if you change your mind. And also the insurance does cover some behaviour aspects too.

I understand the head and heart thing, and it can be a killer to make a decision. Boxers in general are great dogs with kids, they take an aweful lot but they are extremely, well silly dogs as in they have boundless energy and will run all day if you let them. They are smart but, again, you have to have the time. And even if you increase your walking time and maybe even taking him out for a run around with a ball to tire him out you will see a difference.

thebullkf

will do

thanks a mill

spiderdog

id def neuter him:)
also...have a look at what food you`re feeding him, if its too high protien it could make him more hyper.....id feed a food around 20% protien.
be careful feeding treats too as these can add to the protien level.

whereabouts in dub are you? i know a very good trainer...i`ll pm you:)

perservere with him....he`s at a rowdy stage too...you`ll look back at this and smile:D

i`d increase his exercise too...a tired dog is good.

BlackCat2008

Neuter no question about it, the reason he came to be with you in the first place was because mammy and daddy weren't neutered, fair play to you for taking them all on and getting them homes, but what about the ones he could father, they could end up in the same situation or a pound to be put to sleep because there just isn't enough homes to go around.

If he is a white boxer make sure you have a long cheat with your vet before going ahead I do know white ones are high risk under anesthetic but there is no reason it can't still go well.

The spring in his step will not be effected by any means, he'll really only start to mature and settle down when he is about 2yrs old as I have found with most dogs, you could try agility classes help him use up some of that energy or get him interested in playing ball and run the legs of him every day for a while, that helps with the high energy collie I have at the minute.

sorella

Diet may help; one of ours gets hyper on red meat but is fine on chicken. We learned that the hard way:)

Phsyche

Hi thebullkf.

Reading your post was like reliving the time with my first boxer
She was exactly the same!
When it became impossible to leave her at home on her own(she chewed everything-even a wall at one stage) I decided to bring her with me everywhere I could. Going to the shop, meeting friends etc. This and going for long walks helped to settle her down.
I talked to her a lot too and she became more receptive to my commands when I started training her.

I know it's hard to have a big dog and train him properly around a 3 year old child but if you succeed you might end up with a very loyal and loving companion for your family in the future.

Oh and yes I would definitely neuter him:)

peasant

Neutering is a good idea for all the reasons outlined above ...but... it won't change his current behaviour one bit.

The most important bits when trying to train your dog are:

-Be clear in what you want and what you tell him to do, always. (No speeches, no sermons, no contradicting commands) Everybody uses the same commands

-Insist on commands being followed through (That only works when he knows already what he's supposed to do. While training, only give a command when there is a reasonable chance of it being followed through. No point in shouting "here" after a dog that is running away, that only makes the command useless)

-Routine(s): Simple things like making him sit before he gets fed, making him go to his bed when there is someone at the door or whatever else suits your situation will help him to understand commands and practice them

-read your dog: anticipate what he is going to do and re-inforce that with a command if you want him to do it or make him stop before he does it.

-correct your dog: in order to learn what he's supposed to do he also needs to be sure of what he isn't supposed to do. Correction is only effective when it is timed right. The dog needs to be corrected (by saying "no" or "ah-ah" or even just by a look) while he is doing the wrong thing, or even better, while he is just about to do it.
Especially with young dogs, correction is very important as they will constantly test their limits. If not shown their limits, all obedience will go out the window. When you are doing training, it has to be serious and he needs to understand that this wis "work" now and not play. Keep the training sessions short, just a few minutes and let him let off steam inbetween.
But also correct him during the day ...there will be a multitude of occasions where he's doing undesirable things and just needs to be reminded. However, don't go after him shouting "no" every 30 seconds, he'll just learn to ignore you.
Watch your dog and time your intervention right. Nothing brings home your "god like powers" to a dog but a well timed "ah-ah" just a split second before he's going to steal that sausage off the worktop:D


-patience !!!!


-close the gate and keep it closed

cloudy day

Yes definitely nueter.

You don't want him entire as he won't be a stud dog. and male dogs pee everywhere. i hear lots of stories from people about "mad" boxers and some of them are absolute heartbreakers to keep. I've had one or two myself over the years.

It seems the problems with these "mad" ones is that they need an environment where they have a lot of space to run all day long and a friend to burn it off with. My dogs are on the go with each other outside all day long. they rest very little, but it makes them calmer as they burn off the energy. Like hyper kids. So if you haven't got this environment you need to create the next best thing. Also not knowing his breeding, dogs generally get to be very big and very strong so you need to get on top of this immediately.

In my opinion harnesses are the world's worst for powerful breeds as that is exactly what they do "harness" power, think sled dogs, pulling.

if he's on canned food gradually change him over to a low protein dry food. I find Massbrook very good. Then keep him on dry food always.

Get a choke chain and a very long extendi lead. Do some one on one in the back garden with the choke chain so that he gradually understands not to pull ( be gentle obviously ). then take him out on short lead with choke chain and short lead and walk very fast keeping him to heal. Have a pocket with dry food or broken up chew sticks to use as rewards. Go to a very large green area and take off the choke chain and attach extendi lead. If you have a pull rope or toy also this is helpful. You can throw the toy play and this will help burn off hhis excess. when he is a bit calmer then you can work some more on traing and recall. You may have to repeat repeat repeat until he starts to listen, then he will start thinking and learning. then it should get easier. It's sounds like a lot of hard work but you will find it fun.

When he is listening to you and things are improving I would suggest you get a bike. then you can take him out beside you and he can trot along and burn it off.

I've never ever known a boxer to be aggresive with kids, but they can get very excited and develop bad habits so training is vital to prevent this.

I hope this helps and I hope he improves so you can keep him. Have a look and see if there are any clubs in your area or agility training classes. best of luck.

Madame Razz

Is there a beach near you where you could run the dog regularly??

My boxer loves this and it really tires them out.

They are pretty receptive to discipline if you try to apply it, but I can appreciate the difficulty of doing so with such an exuberent breed.

Even encouraging calmness around the dog can work wonders, and make them calm also.

We tried a choke chain with ours but she pulled regardless:rolleyes:, we found the halti worked well, the dog herself woudln't be a fan though, so we just run her loose wherever possible and it works a treat.

A second dog or even a cat could be a good ditraction for your dog also.

I can't comment on neutering as mine is female and unneutered on the vets advice, it definately seems to genrally have very positive effects on male dogs though.

As for the tendency to fight, this seems to be a big problem generally throughout the breed, I know ours is the same. It does improve with age though you'll be glad to hear.

Don't give up on him just yet. A year is very young and he still has a lot of calming down to do. They are such a loving breed and he'll be so good with your child in the future, maybe it's worth making a final effort with a few changes that could make all the difference??

kildara

I don't agree with the use of full choke chains, as - depending on the breed - some dogs will fight them until they pass out.
You can get a check collar (also called a martingale) which uses the same idea as the choke collar but there is a limit on the maximum choke it apples.
If you do get one of these don't get one with a plastic catch as they can break if the dog bolts. Get one with a standard metal buckle on it.

thebullkf

Many,many many thanks to you all for your advice...think the oul cojones won't be working this time next week :eek:

ironically enough i just bought a bike and had him out with me this evening
running alongside me...(took a while admittedly)

and i feel a whole lot better about him now-he was so docile this evening
not to mentioned knackered;)

had him out this morning as well so defo think 2 good sessions is the way to go.

i see hills have just started tinned wet food.. €2.20 a tin:eek::eek:


honestly just can't afford it...mixing good dry food with the odd tin of fray bentos chicken meatballs..third of the price of hills and actually fit for human consumption(JUST!)

feel a lot more positive tonight

i feel he might just get the exercise he needs..:):)

cloudy day

Bravo, well done, that's brilliant news. happy days.
onwards and upwards and remember to keep in touch.

and no matter what anyone says, whip off the tenders, he doesn't need them and it will make life so much easier.

you'll be fit as a fiddle yourself in no time with all the bike riding. but don't forget to keep up the one on one training and discipline, that way you'll stop them bad habits before they even start.

cloudy day

ps i forgot to say. look at the other posts about buying feed. lots of others have put up what works for them. personally i get my local shop to order in massbrook as it's affordable and my dogs seem to do ok on it. they really love the beefy crunch and trainer. now i need to persuade a butcher to give me some really big bones as they keep them occupied for hours. handy trick if ya have to leave them alone for a few hours.

thebullkf

cloudy day wrote: »

ps i forgot to say. look at the other posts about buying feed. lots of others have put up what works for them. personally i get my local shop to order in massbrook as it's affordable and my dogs seem to do ok on it. they really love the beefy crunch and trainer. now i need to persuade a butcher to give me some really big bones as they keep them occupied for hours. handy trick if ya have to leave them alone for a few hours.

cheers CD,

never heard of massbrook,emailed them this am for details.

only bought a big bone yesterday!!-its called a postmans leg:D:D:D:D

€3-in petmania.

cloudy day

no massbrook not very well known but i see the reps are pushing it a bit more now and it's in more shops. the ones like farm store etc unfortunately most shops only tend to stock the expensive stuff. i have my bags ordered now and just collect from there when i need.

€ 3 for postman's leg, that was good he'll be happy out.

Bluefrog

I'll throw into this that you can't expect improvement on the lead over night. Been working with my pup for the last 5 months on this and he's only really now getting it reliably and consistently to the point where my partner feels comfortable walking him.

For the first few weeks you have also to be prepared to give up the idea of actually going anywhere on your walks. Better to stop and/or turn when he pulls ahead than try to pull him back. He'll catch on eventually and you will get better at pre-empting him. Lead training goes easier too with a calm dog so don't make a big deal of it before you go out.

Walking them can definitely be a workout but that's exactly how I looked at it while we were going through that stage - some pay hundreds to be bored in a gym - I take Iggy out and we both see a hundred interesting things

Regarding what cloudy day said about the bones, there is unfortunately the possibility of bones splintering and doing some internal damage, so its not something I would leave with an unattended dog for a few hours. A kong toy filled with something tasty and sticky is just as, if not more effective to keep them occupied and without the risk.

cloudy day

oops sorry bout that i forgot bout cooked and uncooked as i don't buy cooked myself but always try to get raw ones.

spiderdog

yes, those smoked bones you buy in the pet shop are leathel:eek:

raw marrow bones or stuffed kongs, def the way to go:)

Honey-ec

Jules wrote: »

Ok you will get a barrage of points of view on neutering pros and cons on him being an puppy and being full of energy and needing to be walked for a good 2-3 hours a day, which he does need.

Under no circumstances should a 1 year old Boxer be walked for 2 - 3 hours a day. Their growth plates don't close until approximately 18 months old and overexercising before that can cause permanent damage to the joints. The rule of thumb is 5 minutes exercise per month of age until the growth plates close, so a yearling should be getting no more than an hour's walk per day.