Mobile Broadband and VoIP directly from handset

kommersz

Hello,

most probably this has been asked before - I just can't find it:
Does anyone know if it is possible to use a VoIP enabled phone (e.g. Nokia E51) for making VoIP calls directly using a 30 day Broadband subscription on a Meteor PAYG account (19.99€, 5GB limit)?

I have been to a Meteor branch where they told me that it would not work out, as I have to buy the USB modem and install some special connectivity tool to use that broadband solution.

I do actually not want to believe it that much... it is quite obvious that they are not interested in me making virtually unlimited amount of VoIP calls over a fixed price internet connection.

So does anyone have experiences about this?

Thanks,
k.

watty

It's possible, technically, but it may work less than 25% of the time and be poor. 3g/HSPA is a MOBILE data sytem, not Broadband at all. It's very illsuited to run any form of VOIP. The external dedicated Modem will work just as badly.

3's own Skype phones get round it by not running skype at all. They use an application to communicate to a Skype server and then a regular 3G voice phone call in made on the 3 network to the Skype server.

You can get such an application as a 3rd party app, but you pay mobile voice rates of course.

SIP works best on an E series phone in that it is built in. It's really intended for in office use on WiFi to a local SIP server (asterisk is free).

There are now Skype "lite" clients for s60, but these are poor even on WiFi as there isn't really enough CPU power. Obviously the "Fake" skype clients work fine. (they are detected by fact that they ONLY work on 3G as it's a voice call, so can't work on WiFi).

Fring is Web2.0 where you give all your login details to Fring (and thus trust them). The Fring Client uses the SIP built in to E series phone and converts it to Skype elsewhere. It works much less good than laptop on same WiFi and pretty poor on 3G Data.


The other aspect (apart from fact that VOIP really is fairly rubbish on 3G) is of course
that VOIP calls take up to x20 capacity of 3G calls on a mast sector, yet data is subsidized by voice calls.

For the same price to customer Data cost 150x to 500x more for Operator than Voice (depending on exact package and operator).

So even if it did work reliably (which mostly it doesn't) eventually data prices will be 20x to 50x higher eventually anyway.


To call people that DON'T have VOIP you need either Skype Out Credit or a Blueface account also.


Finally you mostly won't receive calls via VIOP unless you are using SIP presence via Blueface or Skype online. Keeping the 3G connection up like that will run your battery down rapidly. There is no way for Skype or SIP to know your IP if you are off line (or online but not logged in) and thus can't connect an incoming call.

kommersz

watty wrote: »

It's possible, technically, but it may work less than 25% of the time and be poor. 3g/HSPA is a MOBILE data sytem, not Broadband at all. It's very illsuited to run any form of VOIP. The external dedicated Modem will work just as badly.

3's own Skype phones get round it by not running skype at all. They use an application to communicate to a Skype server and then a regular 3G voice phone call in made on the 3 network to the Skype server.

You can get such an application as a 3rd party app, but you pay mobile voice rates of course.

SIP works best on an E series phone in that it is built in. It's really intended for in office use on WiFi to a local SIP server (asterisk is free).

There are now Skype "lite" clients for s60, but these are poor even on WiFi as there isn't really enough CPU power. Obviously the "Fake" skype clients work fine. (they are detected by fact that they ONLY work on 3G as it's a voice call, so can't work on WiFi).

Fring is Web2.0 where you give all your login details to Fring (and thus trust them). The Fring Client uses the SIP built in to E series phone and converts it to Skype elsewhere. It works much less good than laptop on same WiFi and pretty poor on 3G Data.


The other aspect (apart from fact that VOIP really is fairly rubbish on 3G) is of course
that VOIP calls take up to x20 capacity of 3G calls on a mast sector, yet data is subsidized by voice calls.

For the same price to customer Data cost 150x to 500x more for Operator than Voice (depending on exact package and operator).

So even if it did work reliably (which mostly it doesn't) eventually data prices will be 20x to 50x higher eventually anyway.


To call people that DON'T have VOIP you need either Skype Out Credit or a Blueface account also.


Finally you mostly won't receive calls via VIOP unless you are using SIP presence via Blueface or Skype online. Keeping the 3G connection up like that will run your battery down rapidly. There is no way for Skype or SIP to know your IP if you are off line (or online but not logged in) and thus can't connect an incoming call.

Thanks for the answer!

Is the low quality due to the fact that mobile broadband has a large response time, or due to insufficient network coverage on average (or maybe network operators intentionally decreasing quality by removing packets :rolleyes: )?

unfortunately I did not understand the calculation about the 20x to 50x higher costs - broadband costs a fixed amount of money up to 5GB, doesn't it?

watty

1) The Mobile system has very variable speed from 50k to 5000k and may not connect at all. VOIP needs same speed upload and download. Often upload is too slow. The delay or latency is too high for comfort (VOIP itself has delay, which is why non-voip voice works better on satellite than VOIP). Delay varies from 80ms to 2000ms. The Jitter is too high for echo correction. Packet loss is too high for codecs like G.729, so much more hungry G.711 is needed. Skype has problems due to the rapid changes in available speed and Jitter too. The problem is a combination of that Mobile data is a compromise system for Mobility, not reliability. It's not Broadband. 3G/HSPA uses w-CDMA, an inferior technology to WiFi (can just about do VOIP), GSM's EDGE (which also is poor at VOIP), WiMax and LTE.

Even Mobile WiMax and LTE will only just be good enough for VOIP (and they have 4 to 5 times capacity) but would need about 4 x as many bases as GSM uses. There also may not be enough 3G cells in many areas as priority in planning is NOT data capacity but voice call capacity. Why have 3 times as many masts to suit something with no profit in it?



2) The current pricing is FAKE. It is to build customer base. Or else they can't do sums. I mean that in reality the prices will rise x10 to x50 if data becomes predominant as it is costing the operator x150 to x500 more for same sales revenue as voice calls. SMS infact is practically free to the operator, Internet data is very different. Obviously if VOIP did work well (it is rubbish on Mobile on handset or modem for 75% of situations approx), then if there was the SAME profit margin on data as voice calls, data would be x150 to x500 more.

Data packages are sold well below the actual cost. They make a loss on average. They are of course hope that on average people use 1/200th or less of the cap or they loose money. My conclusion is that Mobile Data pricing is deliberately predatory to build customer base.

Phone line penetration on the population has dropped from 82% to 66%.

kommersz

Thanks for the info - considering all the above I still decided to buy a Nokia E51 just to be able to browse the internet while I'm on the move.
Right now I'm browsing through meteor's website to find information about how could I make broadband available on my phone - with not much luck overall. All the instructions available are about installation of the device used in a laptop. Do any of you have a clue how to get meteor broadband running on my phone (how to order th service, how to pay for it, how to set it up on the phone)?

Just to avoid misunderstandings: I'm talking about the 5GB/30 days for 20€ offer, not the lousy 50MB/day for 1€ stuff.

watty

ring them.
They will give you the APN settings and enable your SIM.
otherwise you pay by the Mbyte.

If they don't understand, or don't offer it (ie. the 5GB/30 days for 20€ offer is for a modem), tell them you have a modem and get the SIM. Modem SIMs work in phones and vice versa.

The cost of calls with the Modem sim in phone is higher. You can swap sims too for cheaper calls.

Sometimes the shops (not CPW but actual Meteor) are better than call centre on phone.

alig

It's as simple as putting your mobile broadband sim into your meteor handset and changing the apn to broadband.mymeteor.ie. You won't have a voice service but you will have data incl sms.

Why you'd want to do this instead of using the day pass I don't know esp as most handsets have inferior speeds compared to the modems so you'd be doing well to bust your cap unless you plan to tether it to a laptop? Doh! I forgot you want to use VoIP!

watty

O2 data sim gives voice service, but just more expensive. Or it did.