National Pride vs City/Region Pride?

Mr.Lizard

As an offshoot from the Leinster thread I am interested in discussing attitudes towards ones love and pride for a particular area they come from vs their feelings for country as a whole that they come from.

To begin, I consider myself a Dubliner first and an Irish person only second. I love the city of Dublin more than I love Ireland and I think I have been that way my whole life. Even Whenever I'm abroad I'll identify myself as being from "Dublin,Ireland" and not just "Ireland".

Now don't get me wrong, I like being Irish too. I love the notional things we stand for (eg our fighting spirit, our fun-loving ways, our history and culture). I'm just saying I'm not to impressed or enamoured with the actual physical country of Ireland itself. In fact I haven't even been anywhere in Ireland outside of Dublin (not counting work related trips) for over a decade.

The phenomonon "city/region > country" is common is in some other countries but I think rare enough in Ireland where the big thing is to take pride in being Irish and every blade of green grass on it.

Maybe this is a town mouse vs country mouse issue for me but I've found it always to be the way, moreso as I get older. So I was wondering is there anyone else here to takes more pride in (and is fonder of) the local town or city or parish they live in moreso than they do in the country as a whole?

RATM

C'mon the Northern Hemisphere, you southies are a bag o' sh1te

mike65

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

I'm just saying I'm not to impressed or enamoured with the actual physical country of Ireland itself. In fact I haven't even been anywhere in Ireland outside of Dublin (not counting work related trips) for over a decade.

Seriously, you must get out more! You might discover the rest of the country is quite nice in parts.

Nehaxak

More or less the same here, although I'd go one further and prefer to allign myself with North Dublin rather than that shower from South of the liffey.

...but, I still think West Cork is the best place in Ireland.

Proud Dub, but I'd give it all away for a chance to live in West Cork !

chopperbyrne

I'm a proud Tallaght man.

Quazzie

From Offaly and proud of it

BraziliaNZ

i don't get how someone can be "proud" to be from effin' tallaght or beaumont or wherever. I like Dublin but i think i'm more critical of it because i'm from here and see so many faults.

Rented Mule

Ireland and Dublin are two completely different places.

Ireland ftw

SEPT 23 1989

when im abroad i always say im from Dublin not Ireland

BnA

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

....In fact I haven't even been anywhere in Ireland outside of Dublin (not counting work related trips) for over a decade....

My God that's Shockin'

In 10 years, you haven't left the pale...????

I am just stunned.

Go and see your country man. It's not a bad place.

phasers

BnA wrote: »

My God that's Shockin'

In 10 years, you haven't left the pale...????

I am just stunned.

Go and see your country man. It's not a bad place.

It's just really boring

chopperbyrne

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

i don't get how someone can be "proud" to be from effin' tallaght or beaumont or wherever.

Tallaght started off being just a large collection of housing estates with few amenities and even less work.

It is now well on its way to being declared one of Irelands next cities.

Dudess

Still waiting for a reason to be proud of it.

Local pride is high-larious.

m3llowship

I consider myself an Irish person. Dont really hold much stock in my home town which is Waterford. Now dont get me wrong, I love it here and love all the people that I know here, I think a lot of it has to do with sport too. I mean I dont follow GAA or Soccer, so that leaves Rugby, which I am passionate about. I love Munster and go to as many games as I can but still I prefer shout harder for the Irish team, I think its because of the unity of the country feeling I get from it.

On the topic of Dublin people referring to themselves as Dubs first and Irish second, I fully agree with this and encourage it because I dont consider Dublin to be very Irish. This isnt a slight at Dublin or Dublin people, but its true, its a melting pot of European and further away lands. Dublin people are only really interested in Dublin, so that leaves us outside of the pale to have this wonderful country and all it has to offer to ourselves.

I have lived in many places around the world, from small towns in Spain to massive cities in America and always look forward to coming back to Ireland, where as the majority of Dublin people will always look forward to going back to Dublin. Why? Because as I said, Ireland and Dublin are two very different and seperate places.

Sir Gallagher

I'm from dublin and proud of it but if i'm ever abroad i'd say i'm Irish if asked. I've 23 and i've been all over Ireland, be it for a weekend here or there or for a mini road trip to do a bit of sightseeing.

The thing is i always feel a sense of resentment from some people i encounter in the country even to the point of hatred from some younger folk, mainly for being a Dub. It pisses me off a little at how petty and ridiculous it is. Overall though, people all over Ireland do have an in-built sense of friendliness and hospitality and it's one of our best qualities as a nation.

On the point of the OP having not left Dublin in 10 years, i would say that this would be a thing endemic in our country these days, not only Dublin. Not enough Irish people are discovering Ireland and some of the beautiful sights and places we have. I'd suggest going on a little road trip in the summer, maybe taking in some natural sights and a couple of castles etc. it doesn't cost much at all and you get a great sense of our country and it's history.

Sir Gallagher

m3llowship wrote: »

I consider myself an Irish person. Dont really hold much stock in my home town which is Waterford. Now dont get me wrong, I love it here and love all the people that I know here, I think a lot of it has to do with sport too. I mean I dont follow GAA or Soccer, so that leaves Rugby, which I am passionate about. I love Munster and go to as many games as I can but still I prefer shout harder for the Irish team, I think its because of the unity of the country feeling I get from it.

On the topic of Dublin people referring to themselves as Dubs first and Irish second, I fully agree with this and encourage it because I dont consider Dublin to be very Irish. This isnt a slight at Dublin or Dublin people, but its true, its a melting pot of European and further away lands. Dublin people are only really interested in Dublin, so that leaves us outside of the pale to have this wonderful country and all it has to offer to ourselves.

I have lived in many places around the world, from small towns in Spain to massive cities in America and always look forward to coming back to Ireland, where as the majority of Dublin people will always look forward to going back to Dublin. Why? Because as I said, Ireland and Dublin are two very different and seperate places.

Absolute garbage, what gives people from individual places from outside of Dublin the monopoly on the whole country?

m3llowship

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Absolute garbage, what gives people from individual places from outside of Dublin the monopoly on the whole country?

No No, I think you've missed my point! Thats not what I meant at all. What I mean is, the general concensus of your typical Dublin person is that they love Dublin. In my own experience and from the Dublin people who are very good friends of mine(who have been texting me with snide remarks since the full time whistle on Saturday too!!) they seem to consider Dublin their home and dont really hold much stock in the rest of the country. Now I am being general here, I have Dublin friends that hate Dublin and spend nearly every weekend they can out of there.

I dont think that Eire is a market to be swept up by monopolists! The main point I am making is that non-dubs seem to love the entire of the country, where as dubs love Dublin.

Mr.Lizard

BnA wrote: »

My God that's Shockin'

In 10 years, you haven't left the pale...????

I am just stunned.

I've left the Pale. I've been all over the world and back again. I just haven't been anywhere IN IRELAND outside Dublin. Just don't see the point.

PrivateEye

Éire 31.

We don't want in, Dublin until the end.

markopantelic

Nationalism is coming to an end, but Europeans are becoming increasingly defined by their cities(I read that somewhere ) I can see this happening in Dublin now as it becomes multi-cultural, while the rest of the country remains an inbred backwater. I don't really view myself as Irish tbh, I consider myself a Dubliner first, then European or Irish second, but maby I'm just human In school though I sort of 'big up' my Jewish origins because its unique. It would have been cool to see what Ireland would have been like today if the Normans, Vikings, 'Native' Irish and British had kept their customs, like language and culture. Dublin(and the east) actually has very different history from the west, its sort of not mentioned because we love to big up our 'struggling' past but Dublin was one of the most important cities in Europe during middle ages.

Sir Gallagher

m3llowship wrote: »

No No, I think you've missed my point! Thats not what I meant at all. What I mean is, the general concensus of your typical Dublin person is that they love Dublin. In my own experience and from the Dublin people who are very good friends of mine(who have been texting me with snide remarks since the full time whistle on Saturday too!!) they seem to consider Dublin their home and dont really hold much stock in the rest of the country. Now I am being general here, I have Dublin friends that hate Dublin and spend nearly every weekend they can out of there.

I dont think that Eire is a market to be swept up by monopolists! The main point I am making is that non-dubs seem to love the entire of the country, where as dubs love Dublin.

Yeah it's true that a lot of Dubs feel that way but there's a lot that don't too. I think it's all about urban identity vs rural identity, which happens the world over really. That's why Dubs and Cork folk, to an extent, would refer to themselves as such, maybe before saying they were Irish.

The fact of the matter is Dublin is part of Ireland therefore our culture is inherently Irish no matter how much thats conflicts with some people warped views of nation identity. I'd also say to any Dubs who class themselves as Dubs only are just being plain daft.

m3llowship

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I'd also say to any Dubs who class themselves as Dubs only are just being plain daft.

Bravo.

I'll second that.

I suppose the point made earlier by the larger a city gets the more self aware it gets. America is a good example, they will always say what city they are from or at least what state. I think for the time being I'll have to stick with referring to myself as Irish while abroad, dont think many foreigners will have heard of Waterford!! Now that the Crystal factory is knackered too what chance have I??

O'Coonassa

http://blueollie.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/you_are_here_galaxy.jpg

:rolleyes:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/Local_galaxy_filaments-2-.gif

Eve_Dublin

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Yeah it's true that a lot of Dubs feel that way but there's a lot that don't too. I think it's all about urban identity vs rural identity, which happens the world over really. That's why Dubs and Cork folk, to an extent, would refer to themselves as such, maybe before saying they were Irish.

The fact of the matter is Dublin is part of Ireland therefore our culture is inherently Irish no matter how much thats conflicts with some people warped views of nation identity. I'd also say to any Dubs who class themselves as Dubs only are just being plain daft.

Here here!!

If I'm abroad, I'd say I'm Irish first and if they ask me what part of Ireland, I'd tell them I'm from Dublin. Nobody outside of Ireland would consider us any less "Irish" because we're from Dublin. I would only ever claim I'm a Dub when we play in Gaelic football or if I'm getting a hard time from a myopic country lad or lady and I get on the defence. I know most of the time it's just a bit of craic but what's with the people who take it seriously?? It displays a massive insecurity within yourselves.

Just one of many examples over the years: I met a guy from Galway in a pub a few months ago who'd been living in Dublin 5 years and told me he hated my county and everybody in it (not sure if that included himself). He practically spat the words at me for no reason (I only asked him for a light..uh oh...bad day, huh?) My advice to him was maybe he should move somewhere else if he was so unhappy. What else could you say to such a stupid, ignorant comment? Build a feckin' bridge, will ye?


At the end of the day, most of the family of a majority of people born and raised in Dublin come from beyond the boundaries of Dublin...people have been coming to De Big Shmoke from other counties for hundreds of years to settle down, seek work and raise families (their kids growing up as "Dubs"). I would hazard a guess and say that very few families in Dublin could make the claim that ALL of their ancestors hail from within the parameters of Dublin county. Most of my friends would visit their relations "down the country" when we were growing up and these were often aunties, grandparents, cousins etc. Very few "True Blues" knocking about anymore.

If any one who claims that Dublin is "less Irish" raised kids in Dublin, would they in turn consider their children to be less Irish just because they were born within the borders of Dublin county??? Course not, that's ridiculous.

My dad is from Cavan and my grandparents on my mam's side were from Meath. I'd be proud of my Cavan roots as much of my family on my dad's side would come from there and they're lovely people...always had a great time visiting there growing up. This is the case with a hell of a lot of Dubs...remember your cousins from Dublin visiting you back in the day?

Saying that, my cousin gave me a hard time when I started university 10 years ago...he said, "So you think you're great now that you're going to university now, doncha? Bloody Dubs....". All you can do is laugh...The guy has a Ph.D now...were all doooomed!!

af_thefragile

Go Earth planeteres!!!

All you other planets are ****e in front of us!!!

stovelid

To be honest, for me, it's all about road level. The national just isn't real enough.

Even people on the next road to me, there's just something inferior about them. Some essential lack of moral fibre - I can't put my finger on it.

My heart always lifts a little when I see my own road-sign just up ahead.

ottostreet

I'm from Carlow and I'm proud to be from it, as I also live in Dublin, and get quite a few smart-alecs commenting on my accent. Generally from friends with big thick Dublin accents on them, so I'm the winner there. However, when I say I'm proud to be from Carlow, I think its more a case of 'being proud to not be from Dublin'. Most of small-town Ireland is the same, and is just down to how many knackers there are as to a towns reputation. I work and have worked in most towns in Leinster, and can honestly say that Carlow is one of the less-knackery towns!

Having said that, Carlow remains the only town that I've been attacked in, but that was by a Dub.

Beanstalk

Accents probably have a lot to do with regional pride in places as well, especially in places where the accent is instantly recognizable, donegal, dublin, cork etc.

brosps

There's a thread about this like every week what the heck. It doesn't really matter if you're from Dublin or wherever, if you actually take into account where someone is from you're a moron and probably dislikable

Mr.Lizard

Hi, sorry to steer this thread back on track but could I remind some people that this thread is asking whether you have more pride in the town/village/city/parish/county that you're from than you do for the country you're from. It's not another "Is Dublin better than the rest of the country (or vice versa)" debate.

Rented Mule

When asked where I am from, I will answer Chicago.

Then I will go on to say 'Southside' because I don't want to be lumped in with that pack of eejits on the other side of the river.

After eight years of Dubya in the White House, I will only identify myself as an American after asked 'where in Australia are you from?'.

......which happens about once a week.

Eve_Dublin

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Hi, sorry to steer this thread back on track but could I remind some people that this thread is asking whether you have more pride in the town/village/city/parish/county that you're from than you do for the country you're from. It's not another "Is Dublin better than the rest of the country (or vice versa)" debate.

I'd say country. Dublin pride in Gaelic football matches and if I'm getting the pee ripped out of from the country folk with a chip on their shoulder.

Heisenberg.

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