Where do political parties get your address from ?

Liam Byrne

Something happened last week that has me wondering where political parties get their addresses from for their junk mail.

Basically, I've recently moved back to a former address of mine, but in the interim I wasn't registered at the old address, and so I had to fill out the form to change registration details last week to my new [old] address (and got the polling card today).

But before that change of registration, Labour managed to send me a junk mail card, addressed directly to me!

How could they do this ?

Plus, a neighbour of mine who moved to this area last year (and who is still registered at her old address) ALSO received a directly-addressed junk mail card!

While my one might be explained by me being "back" at my old address - maybe the address for European stuff wasn't changed in the meantime - my neighbour has NEVER been registered at her new address!

So what source could these people be using ? And does it mean that someone, somewhere, is breaching some part of the Data Protection Act ?

mike65

Post office lists? TV licence list? Tax office?

oscarBravo

Curious about that. We've both received election literature from a number of parties addressed to an incorrect address (but close enough that the postman got it to us anyway - Her Indoors has an unusual name). We've checked the register, and the address is (almost) correct there - certainly it's not the address on the election literature. I've been wondering what the source is.

ionix5891

oscarBravo wrote: »

Curious about that. We've both received election literature from a number of parties addressed to an incorrect address (but close enough that the postman got it to us anyway - Her Indoors has an unusual name). We've checked the register, and the address is (almost) correct there - certainly it's not the address on the election literature. I've been wondering what the source is.

can this information be requested under freedom of information or whatever acts?

Liam Byrne

mike65 wrote: »

Post office lists? TV licence list? Tax office?

Maybe - don't know....

But if so, is it in breach of the Data Protection Act ?

ionix5891

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Maybe - don't know....

But if so, is it in breach of the Data Protection Act ?

Considering alot of people have no issues putting very private details on the likes of Bebo and Facebook and Myspace shouldn't come as surprise that alot of data about us is sloshing around

Liam Byrne

ionix5891 wrote: »

Considering alot of people have no issues putting very private details on the likes of Bebo and Facebook and Myspace shouldn't come as surprise that alot of data about us is sloshing around

No address of mine on those.

ionix5891

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No address of mine on those.

hmm i don't know, i didn't get any letters addressed to me, but my girlfriend has dozens

Dont the gardai have the right to keep very detailed records on us?

Liam Byrne

ionix5891 wrote: »

Dont the gardai have the right to keep very detailed records on us?

They might have (and fair enough) but they surely don't have the right to pass it on to third parties ?

Max Power1

similar occurence to the above - the OH has been getting electoral rubbish from multiple parties. the address is the same on all parties leaflets - but different to whats on the register.

InFront

Maybe the parties are on those Junk Mail sign-up lists? Like the people who used to offer me a credit card but whose correspondence has stopped of late. Must write.

bcirl03

I've only got one so far, I expect more.

Whilst I dont know where they come from I consider them junk mail and as such RETURN TO SENDER.

oscarBravo

What's strange is that those addressed to us have the right house number, but the wrong housing estate - it's the next estate up, and the name is completely different to the one we live in. It's a brand-new estate, whereas the one we live in is quite established, and there's certainly nothing we've ever done that would associate our names with that address.

It's a strange one.

seamus

Yep, I've gotten it too, despite not being on the edited register. Would be very curious to know how/where the information gets into their hands.

It only seems to be EU elections material in my case - could that be significant?

SeanW

Yeah, I've got a small mountain of those 1/4 page wide leaflets over the last week or so. Just got more from the Shinners today.

I'm on the electors register, but not the edited register, which is the one that marketers and political parties are supposed to use as an "opt in to all crap" list.

Do you think the politicians are (illegally?) using the main electors register?

ionix5891

seamus wrote: »

Yep, I've gotten it too, despite being on the edited register. Would be very curious to know how/where the information gets into their hands.

It only seems to be EU elections material in my case - could that be significant?

That should be a good question to as 'em when they come canvasing to the door, if they cant give a straight answer about an issue like that why would the party be trusted with power?

on further taught maybe there some sort of companies out there with up to date databases, and they sell this info on, i always found it disturbing how the tv license people always got my latest apartment even tho there was no tv in house as i moved around for work :pac:

Stabshauptmann

Political parties or candidates for election in the context of an election have certain exemptions under the DPA.

For one they are not required to obtain your explicit consent for the processing of "sensitive personal data".

Also direct mailing carried out in the course of political activities [...] is outside the definition of direct marketing under the DPA - you do not have an opt out.

Theres a couple of exemptions to receiving consent before obtaining your informations, and I *think* political parties fall into these.

The above info is taken from one of my course texts, if anyone wants to find the exact place in legislation I would suggest checkin not only the 88 act, but the 2003 act and more importantly, the regulations under both acts.

So this explains how election material is sent to my second address, but Ive no idea how I became registered there

[edit]I do now. This is a strange legal one imo.
It is the councils duty under law to maintain the register. They have wide ranging powers as to how they can do this, I think originally it was by going door to door or through direct mailing. I think in my case it was census data as I cant think of any other way they could know about my second address - I had no bills in my name.

It is however my obligation under law to alert the Register of Electors that my information is incorrect. Great, someone added me to the register incorrectly and without consulting me, and its my fault :rolleyes:

Stabshauptmann

ionix5891 wrote: »

That should be a good question to as 'em when they come canvasing to the door, if they cant give a straight answer about an issue like that why would the party be trusted with power?

on further taught maybe there some sort of companies out there with up to date databases, and they sell this info on, i always found it disturbing how the tv license people always got my latest apartment even tho there was no tv in house as i moved around for work :pac:

the TV license is specifical proscribed for in law. Crappy text book is only an introductory, cant give you the exact reference

Stabshauptmann

seamus wrote: »

Yep, I've gotten it too, despite not being on the edited register. Would be very curious to know how/where the information gets into their hands.

It only seems to be EU elections material in my case - could that be significant?

The edited register contains the names and addresses of persons who have indicated that their details can be used for a purpose other than electoral or other statutory use, e.g. for direct marketing use by a commercial or other organisation.

you cannot opt out of polical direct mailing.

The EU thing is strange. If you only got local info Id know why. Check the register, even if you were type E (non Irish, resident EU national) you should still get local election info.

Maybe nobody wants your vote

thebman

Wrong ones get sent to my house and none addressed to me.

I guess the man hasn't found me :P

Oh and I have a TV license in my name for this address.

Wishbone Ash

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Something happened last week that has me wondering where political parties get their addresses from for their junk mail.

Basically, I've recently moved back to a former address of mine, but in the interim I wasn't registered at the old address, and so I had to fill out the form to change registration details last week to my new [old] address (and got the polling card today).

But before that change of registration, Labour managed to send me a junk mail card, addressed directly to me!

How could they do this ?

Plus, a neighbour of mine who moved to this area last year (and who is still registered at her old address) ALSO received a directly-addressed junk mail card!

While my one might be explained by me being "back" at my old address - maybe the address for European stuff wasn't changed in the meantime - my neighbour has NEVER been registered at her new address!

So what source could these people be using ? And does it mean that someone, somewhere, is breaching some part of the Data Protection Act ?

Are you known personally by a councillor/senator/TD?

Within days of moving house 8 years ago, I went to change my address on the electoral register but it was already done. A Labour Councillor, who I knew personally, took the liberty.

(He made a slight mistake with the address and it's easy to spot any mail using this database as they all arrive with the same mistake).

Joey the lips

The Electrol register! Its also the thing they mark off the day you go to vote. You see they know that you vote, they just dont know who....

So next time you tell a politician "Ah yes I voted!" just remember its easy to check.

LostinBlanch

When I registered at a previous address I got a junkmail card from Gerry Adams saying "LIB a chara please vote for us etc." It happened within a couple of weeks of me going on the register so that's where I think it comes from.

Joey the lips

LostinBlanch wrote: »

When I registered at a previous address I got a junkmail card from Gerry Adams saying "LIB a chara please vote for us etc." It happened within a couple of weeks of me going on the register so that's where I think it comes from.

Your lucky you could have got it from Bertie!

Wishbone Ash

Joey the lips wrote: »

The Electrol register!

LostinBlanch wrote: »

It happened within a couple of weeks of me going on the register so that's where I think it comes from.

The OP is aware that the mail comes from the electoral register but is simply wondering how it arrived at his new address when he hasn't changed it yet.

The Raven.

The first one I got was from Libertas :eek::eek::eek:!!!

Joey the lips

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The OP is aware that the mail comes from the electoral register but is simply wondering how it arrived at his new address when he hasn't changed it yet.

Oh my apologies I ment to say the supplimentary register but then that still leaves the question, how did it get there!

Liam Byrne

Joey the lips wrote: »

The Electrol register! Its also the thing they mark off the day you go to vote.

Did you even read the original post, Joey ? I only got the name transferred last Friday week, so no, it wasn't the "Electrol" register, or even the electoral one.

Maybe they have access to the post office's internal lists or something - I dunno.

But I can't see why they'd deserve an exemption from the marketing restrictions; they basically "selling" themselves (and as I've said before if any local politician or TD did worthwhile stuff then we'd know about them and wouldn't need to be bombarded with stupid posters and junk mail.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The OP is aware that the mail comes from the electoral register but is simply wondering how it arrived at his new address when he hasn't changed it yet.

It's changed now....wasn't gonna miss teaching a few people a few long-overdue lessons on Friday week! But yeah - the issue is that the flyer arrived BEFORE that change request went in, and also arrived to a neighbour who has left her voting registration at her old family-home address.

dlofnep

If they didn't get it by the register Liam, I've no idea. Did anyone canvass you? Canvassers might have got your address if you showed a sense of support towards them.

Although - generally, if you're not on the register; they normally wouldn't. At least, that's my understanding of it.

Joey the lips

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Did you even read the original post, Joey ? I only got the name transferred last Friday week, so no, it wasn't the "Electrol" register, or even the electoral one.
.

I am not the only one that does not read correctly Liam, I answered that earlier and as stated I thought it might be the supl register!

lostexpectation

Joey the lips wrote: »

The Electrol register! Its also the thing they mark off the day you go to vote. You see they know that you vote, they just dont know who....

So next time you tell a politician "Ah yes I voted!" just remember its easy to check.

surely they throw away the paper list they use on the day

Liam Byrne

lostexpectation wrote: »

surely they throw away the paper list they use on the day

Nope, they throw away the expensive machines that couldn't print the same paper list..... :rolleyes:

oscarBravo

lostexpectation wrote: »

surely they throw away the paper list they use on the day

Why would they do that?

lostexpectation

oscarBravo wrote: »

Why would they do that?

well surely its just a photocopy that covers that polling station for that day.

anyway i'd be interested in somebody foi'ing the parties to get the information they have on them, i've been personal canvassed so there won't be much on me.

she shay brennan's registered canvas etc.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0527/1224247502726.html

oscarBravo

lostexpectation wrote: »

well surely its just a photocopy that covers that polling station for that day.

As people vote, they get marked off the list. The list of people who voted (and who didn't vote) becomes part of the official record for the election. You have a constitutional right to privacy as to who you voted for, but not as to whether or not you voted.

Our man in Havana

Why is it necessary for political parties to spam me directly? Perhaps I don't want to know about their policies? Also if there are 4 people in a house why do they waste so much money spamming everyone in the house when 1 would do. The state should not be picking up the tab for their marketing efforts.

I would love to be able to opt out of electoral spam.

eimear1

This was a question i was wondering about also. In my case, i am temporarily living at an address which is outside my own electoral area, however, have not contemplated changing my vote to this area as i will not be here long and want to vote for those who will serve the constituency where i will be living long-term. They are under the same county council but seperate constituencies.
Recently received the "litir um thoghchan" from several parties addressed to my new address. I always presumed that, as these are paid for by the state because every candidate is entitled to send 1 piece of literature to every voter, this would go by the electoral register, yet i am not on the register at new address?? If people are being put on the list for this mailout because they bought a tv licence or taxed a car, is this not creating a mass of extra mailouts that are not warranted, but the parties do not care as they are not paying for this??

As regards who knows whether you voted or not, every candidate also has the right to have an agent present at any polling booth who receives a copy of the register for that area and is informed of the identity of each voter as they come in, and they can keep a record that way. The agent can also be present for the sealing of the boxes at the end of the polling day.

Our man in Havana

eimear1 wrote: »

Recently received the "litir um thoghchan" from several parties addressed to my new address. I always presumed that, as these are paid for by the state because every candidate is entitled to send 1 piece of literature to every voter, this would go by the electoral register, yet i am not on the register at new address?? If people are being put on the list for this mailout because they bought a tv licence or taxed a car, is this not creating a mass of extra mailouts that are not warranted, but the parties do not care as they are not paying for this??

They should only be using the electoral register for the purposes of sending the "litir um thoghchan". Afaik the state only pays for the postage and the parties must pay for the leaflets.

eimear1 wrote: »

As regards who knows whether you voted or not, every candidate also has the right to have an agent present at any polling booth who receives a copy of the register for that area and is informed of the identity of each voter as they come in, and they can keep a record that way. The agent can also be present for the sealing of the boxes at the end of the polling day.

I don't see of what use that is to the political parties as they cannot find out how you have voted.

lostexpectation

oscarBravo wrote: »

As people vote, they get marked off the list. The list of people who voted (and who didn't vote) becomes part of the official record for the election. You have a constitutional right to privacy as to who you voted for, but not as to whether or not you voted.

well the only useful info is turnout? and presumably they have made a note of that to figure out the quota as the work out who won, so they count that and then throw them out?

oscarBravo

lostexpectation wrote: »

well the only useful info is turnout?

Depends on how you define "useful".

...and presumably they have made a note of that to figure out the quota as the work out who won, so they count that and then throw them out?

No, they don't. I'm still not clear (a) why you think they do, and (b) why you think they should.

lostexpectation

i think it should be explained why they keep it,its not up to me, there a lot of talk about how the parties do their tallies and keep the info, and especially in small areas inconjunction this other info, this can breach the secrecy of the ballot to great degree.

Our man in Havana

lostexpectation wrote: »

i think it should explained why they keep it,its not up to me, there a lot of talk about how the parties do their tallies and keep the info, and especially in small areas inconjunction this other info, this can breach the secrecy of the ballot to great degree.

As the ballot is secret and the box is sealed there is no way they can find out what way any particular person voted.

All they can gleam is who has voted so as the turnout can be established. Nothing else.
What other info are you referring to?

oscarBravo

lostexpectation wrote: »

...this can breach the secrecy of the ballot to great degree.

Nope. The question of whether or not an individual showed up to vote is a matter of public record, by simple virtue of the fact that polling stations are public places. It is logically impossible for it to be a secret that you did or didn't show up to vote.

The fact that the same information is preserved in written form after the election is not a breach of privacy. Voter privacy extends only to the information you write on your ballot paper.

lostexpectation

well i was expanding the point inregard to other stuff when i said it may be a breach of secrecy of the ballot, paraphrasing others.

but again why do they keep a list of who voted?

thebman

So they know who to ignore when canvasing I imagine.

Or who not to bother doing favors for because if your not going to vote then you don't matter to them.

Those kind of reasons I imagine.

lostexpectation

they?

Our man in Havana

lostexpectation wrote: »

they?

Political parties, councillors, TDs etc.