Hypatheticle fps?

skapegoat

With a .2 gram bb if the law of one juole did not exsist what would the max performance be?

Now physics will play a part in this so weight, speed, air drag, friction etc.

Would it be a gas, spring or aeg to win this battle?

What is the most powerfull Airsoft device out there?

Hope I'm not threading thin ice but it's a valid question....

Arcto

Kind of a retarded question.

How long is a piece of string?

If size wasnt a matter we could build a house sized BB tank that fires 345KG lead core BB's into space.
We could call it the Sturmtiger.

ROFL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:ROFL
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Stercus Accidit

Speed of light.

skapegoat

Arcto a .2 gram bb, not led ones... The term retarded is slightly offensive don't you think....

NakedDex

skapegoat wrote: »

With a .2 gram bb if the law of one juole did not exsist what would the max performance be?

Now physics will play a part in this so weight, speed, air drag, friction etc.

Would it be a gas, spring or aeg to win this battle?

What is the most powerfull Airsoft device out there?

Hope I'm not threading thin ice but it's a valid question....

You do realise that you've just asked "if there are no restrictions, how far could a bb travel" don't you? No restrictions at all. As in the same fashion weapons developers have no restrictions. Or that the space program has no restrictions. Or that medieval siege warfare had no restrictions.
See where I'm going with this?

If legally you had no restriction to the power, then you could technically fire a bb into space, or if it took your fancy, fire it at an angle that would curve it the entire way around the planet and back to its firing point.
If your only restriction is the laws of physics, just keep adding power until Alpha Centauri starts taking it's hits.

Edit. FYI; Arcto was being sarcastic, as denoted by "house sized BB tank that fires 345KG lead core BB's into space". Ignore "lead" and read the rest of his sentence...

Arcto

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TheDoc

I think it is a valid question if phrased maybe differently.

At what point does a .2g BB become ineffective and start to swirl out of control.

To be honest, I do not know the answer. Thats something maybe Berget vets can anwser, people who played in a high limit enviroment. I played a game abroad before that had no limit and there was for sure some 600+fps rifles, but I dont know what BB's they were using....

A tad bit of wind here seems to throw .2g all over the shop, I do not even use them in pistols anymore they are that poor in my view.

Your also borderline starting a debate between gas,spring and battery rifles.

Spring powered rifles are usually less hassle. More durable then its counterparts but a high fps bolt can be like **** a giant pulling it back. It can also be seriously loud with such a high fps.

Gas is sporatic and inconsistent, here anyway, and ridic expensive. Its the gucciest and most fun of the three, with the little explosion of gas coming from the barell nearly creating muzzle flash. It can usually be quickly changed powerwise by changing between 134a or green gas. As regulated gas items become more common, it will allow for easy settings in different arenas of play. ( Set your gun to low fps for indoor cqb, to 1j for outdoors, go abroad and crank it to "insane mode")

Battery is usually the most reliable and consistent firing in my view. You can usually count that most shots will be the same fps and the same range. Less durable then the other two, and upgrading usually involves taking the gearbox apart, so its not for everyone say travelling abroad ( i would not be confident installing a new spring).

If there was no limit, we would probably hit the next tier of limit which is paintball really, which fire at roughly 14 joules. Which would be frigging sweeeet.

I'm personally all for raising limits, and especially snipers, they should have a bigger advantage then us. However I wouldn't trust the airsoft community with a sponge, because there is a tendancy here to be given a metre and try rob a mile.

Arcto

*grumbles*

NakedDex

How about you two delete everything that wasn't a valid answer and within the rules of the forum and call it quits? The guy asked a question in seriousness, it just needs considerably more parameters in order to garner an answer.

Incidentally OP, the parameters I speak about are the likes of; is this complete lack of restriction on how we fire said bb taking into account that it must be fired from a traditional aeg, gbb, nbb, springer etc, or can it be fired from a custom made device?

Masada

whats with the pi$$ing contest lads? i think its a very valid question.

in a more simplistic way i think what john is asking is, what would be terminal velocity of a BB, ie whats the fastest a .2 gram bb can go before the resistance in front of it equals that of the force behind it. there is limits to how effective a .2 can be. idhave to get the calculator out to give a more indept answer but my point still stands, its a valid question.

desertstorm

this is a long shot from being a "retarded" question.

altho to be honest it is a bit vague and is probably more suited to be asked in a physics/engineering thread if you want the theoretical answer.

well lets say we had an infinite power source, and were using you're typical .2 excels.

never minding what path it takes, only looking at the moment its leaving the barrell, as you increase the power your going to be submitting the bb to realy high forces given the size of it, maybe causing it to crack.

as you get faster, and lets say it does leave without cracking, the frictional forces between itself and the air would eventually become so great so as to cause the bb's plastic to melt.
the equation which tells us the drag forces acting on a moving sphere through are is: F= 1/2 * rho * A * V^2 * Cd

where F is the drag force, rho is the density of the air, A is the projected area of the body(ie in this case a circle), V is the velocity (squared) and Cd is a coefficient which tells us how aerodynamic the object is.
From this u can see that for each increase in velocity you're gna get rapidly increasing drag forces

also i would think if anything it would have to be spring based, as the more gas you have expanding through such a small nozzle, the colder the system gets. i know for a fact certain types of engines which work through expanding and compressing gases in a cyclic manner are used to make liquid oxygen.

also also no it wouldnt reach the speed of light, even in space

Stercus Accidit

Masada wrote: »

whats with the pi$$ing contest lads? i think its a very valid question.

in a more simplistic way i think what john is asking is, what would be terminal velocity of a BB, ie whats the fastest a .2 gram bb can go before the resistance in front of it equals that of the force behind it. there is limits to how effective a .2 can be. idhave to get the calculator out to give a more indept answer but my point still stands, its a valid question.

Well to answer above, the bb has no force behind it, only its kinetic energy, this wont find a balance with the air resistance in front of it, it will continually lose velocity until it stops. if you are on about force in the barrel, well if its an aeg there is a limit.

If this is a "what weight bb to use abroad" thread, Its the accuracy you are looking at and range, both of which I have no experience with past Irish limits and rightly so having not played abroad.

And a hypothetical limit of velocity for a bb(or any matter) is probably light speed, but limit from an aeg? I believe a guy in the US got to 700 fps, but that sort of energy is banned on US sites.

I don't see the point of this thread in fairness.

desertstorm

i thought it was a pretty intresting physics based question


i guess realistically you're looking at the limits of how strong a spring a person could pull back
id think gas would suffer from cool down to quick in those sorts of applications?
or how big a motor a person could carry around to pull back the spring:rolleyes:

Masada

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Well to answer above, the bb has no force behind it, only its kinetic energy, this wont find a balance with the air resistance in front of it, it will continually lose velocity until it stops. if you are on about force in the barrel, well if its an aeg there is a limit.

If this is a "what weight bb to use abroad" thread, Its the accuracy you are looking at and range, both of which I have no experience with past Irish limits and rightly so having not played abroad.

And a hypothetical limit of velocity for a bb(or any matter) is probably light speed, but limit from an aeg? I believe a guy in the US got to 700 fps, but that sort of energy is banned on US sites.

I don't see the point of this thread in fairness.

when i say force i mean its kinetic energy, and inertia.

its a simple theory but no matter what size or weight the bb is, it has a "terminal velocity". its physics.

theres no way, even theoretically a bb will get near the speed of light.


desertstorm, good post.

Stercus Accidit

Terminal velocity is where force is constant, but resistance increases with velocity. An example is a falling object in air.

A bb has a starting energy at the muzzle, it loses this energy to the air as it moves through it. So its velocity constantly drops once it leaves the barrel.

The OP mentioned this was hypothetical, to me that is a pure physics of moving mass question, unless it was just a way to not fall foul of the charter, in which case I'm guessing the question is what is the max joule output a standard aeg can achieve, and I'm not sure that is within the charter.

TBH I'll leave the thread for now, I can't answer the OP any better than I have.

desertstorm

well lets take his word for it that this is hypothetical, and keep answering theoretically. i dont think anyones about to stick up plans for a "sturmtiger" just yet.

on a side note since i didnt think it was apt to stick it in a thread of its own, the drag force equation mentioned earlier also explains why heavier bb's are less effected by wind, since F=ma, the acceleration the wind causes on the ball is equal to the force divided by the mass, so the more mass, the less acceleration caused by wind on the bb

just thought of that there and thought some of you out there might have been wondering about that, but alas lets not get off topic

Masada

I dont really get why you cant see the logic in this sam, but ahh, sure, guwan, we'll give ya the last word. right or wrong...

Harlequin Wolf

I really can't believe you're all arguing over such an informal question, i think what what the guy meant was if there was no power limit what would be a realistic maximum fps for an aeg firing .2s. Whats with all the light speed guff?

desertstorm

well for a start he asked hypothetically as opposed to practically, and while that doesnt neccessarily mean theoretically it potentially would imply it.

and yes i did try make that ryhme.


also i think the practical was touched on as well as the theoretical. but really itd take a someone with a bit more technical know how to accurately predict that sort of information with regard internal stresses in the workings of the airsoft device, taking the theoretical train of thought lets you ignore alot of variables

and to be honest, being an engineering student in the middle of exams thinking about this sort of thing is a hell of alot more fun than what I'm meant to be thinking of

Harlequin Wolf

desertstorm wrote: »

and yes i did try make that ryhme.

rofl

*DOBBY*

Ah lads, as facinating as this discussion is its 1.50 am..... I think the 'Airsoft doesn't sleep' Thread is calling. You sure do know your physics:D

bullets

I like turtles

Harlequin Wolf

I love lamp.

The Master

I love how nobody reads the forum charter!


* There will be no discussion of airsoft greater than 1 joule.

Doc and Arcto I have read both your deleted and edited posts.

Any more of that type of behaviour and your both banned.

Consider this a warning