Legal Question - Court summons for having a dirty reg

Morgase

I've asked this question over on askaboutmoney and thought I'd post it here for some extra opinions, hope that's ok Mods.

I got stopped by the gardai yesterday at a checkpoint. I didn't have my license on me (I know! very bad) because I was driving my work jeep. I do most of my public road driving in my own car which is where the license was. I'd come off our very muddy roadworks site in the jeep and the reg was dirty. The guard said I would be getting a summons to court soon because the reg was unreadable.

Is this the sort of thing judges come down hard on? I have no experience of court and have no idea what to expect! Do I need a solicitor or do I represent myself?

I should probably emphasise that I know I'm in the wrong and will be pleading guilty; I just want to know what to expect on the day. Thanks.

KerranJast

I'm no legal expert by any judge worth his salt would chuck that out of court and give the Garda a bollocking for wasting his valuable time.

bladespin

KerranJast wrote: »

I'm no legal expert by any judge worth his salt would chuck that out of court and give the Garda a bollocking for wasting his valuable time.

Concealing a vehicle's identity is frowned upon in courts.

Personally I'd wait for the summons to arrive or not before getting worried.

You have a reasonable explanation for the plate so you'd more than likely just get told to keep it clean in future.

Morgase

Thanks for the replies, I suppose I should just wait for a summons to arrive before getting worked up about it.

If the judge gives me penalty points and a fine I can live with that - but I'm terrified of having my license taken off me (I can't do my job without it) or being sent to jail (I hope they don't do that for first traffic offences!).

partyguinness

Wait for the summons to see what it says.

SV

Morgase wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, I suppose I should just wait for a summons to arrive before getting worked up about it.

If the judge gives me penalty points and a fine I can live with that - but I'm terrified of having my license taken off me (I can't do my job without it) or being sent to jail (I hope they don't do that for first traffic offences!).

Jaysus!
From the looks of most court briefs in the paper it takes a stupid amount of convictions to be put in jail!

kmick

Morgase wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, I suppose I should just wait for a summons to arrive before getting worked up about it.

If the judge gives me penalty points and a fine I can live with that - but I'm terrified of having my license taken off me (I can't do my job without it) or being sent to jail (I hope they don't do that for first traffic offences!).

You can drive drunk and knock down and kill a kid in this country without jail time. Its likely the garda will be to lazy to process the summons.

seamus

SV wrote: »

Jaysus!
From the looks of most court briefs in the paper it takes a stupid amount of convictions to be put in jail!

That's only if you can blame your hard upbringing and your heroin addiction. If you're a hardworking, generally decent, middle-income worker, you can expect to have the book thrown at you.

Sponge Bob

Judge will be cool enough about it , there is a crackdown right now on DIRTY or NON STANDARD plates becuase the new Garda automated checking system will not work with them . Therefore once they have chased all the NCT less drivers off the road you will see a concerted enforcement campaign against dirty and non standard plates ...to which I say good luck to the Donegal guards because nobody up there has a clean or a standard plate that I can see

This Is Why !

http://www.lloyds.com/NR/rdonlyres/758A00A3-D4AF-42BC-AAFA-2A42B162304D/0/Y4258.pdf

Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR)
The Irish Insurance Federation (IIF), the MIBI, An Garda Siochana and the Department of Transport have all lent their support to the above initiative, which plans to see a number of Garda vehicles through out Ireland with the capacity to read vehicle registration numbers from a distance. The system will be used to identify untaxed, stolen, targeted and now uninsured vehicles.

The benefits for the insurance industry could be significant. A targeted enforcement of the law on compulsory motor insurance should lead to more detections and prosecutions of uninsured drivers, more uninsured individuals deciding the risk is too great and insuring their vehicle, less uninsured claims on the MIBI and therefore a decrease in the Levy contributions.

The MIBI is now writing to all members to request their participation in this scheme through the provision of an electronic file of vehicle registration numbers which commence (gain) cover or terminate (lose) cover with each insurer, on a daily basis. In addition to this, a one off upload of company’s entire book of registration numbers will be required to facilitate the development of the system

*Kol*

Morgase wrote: »

I've asked this question over on askaboutmoney and thought I'd post it here for some extra opinions, hope that's ok Mods.

I got stopped by the gardai yesterday at a checkpoint. I didn't have my license on me (I know! very bad) because I was driving my work jeep. I do most of my public road driving in my own car which is where the license was. I'd come off our very muddy roadworks site in the jeep and the reg was dirty. The guard said I would be getting a summons to court soon because the reg was unreadable.

Is this the sort of thing judges come down hard on? I have no experience of court and have no idea what to expect! Do I need a solicitor or do I represent myself?

I should probably emphasise that I know I'm in the wrong and will be pleading guilty; I just want to know what to expect on the day. Thanks.

It's not like you concealed the reg on purpose and I think you have a reasonable chance of not getting a summons at all or getting away with it in court if you have to go. It's hardly the crime of the century.

partyguinness

TBH..it was a work jeep..they are dirty by there very nature.

The Gardai was being a wanker.

Morgase

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I'm just worried cause I've never been in trouble before (as seamus put it I honestly am just an ordinary hard-working person).

Sponge Bob

You may be unlucky Morgase. One way to 'enforce' is to bring a scatter of unusual cases up before the judge , in your case a work vehicle which is not yours so who is legally responsible for cleaning it , is it the then driver ??

The most you will get is a €100 fine if you show up and plead guilty and say that your company has no 'procedure' about plates .

These 'unusual' cases then make the local papers and that is how many people are kept up to date on the law and on its enforcement . After they 'hear' about it being enforced they go and do something about it .

Lets hope the guards don't do that to you but wide scale enforcement of plate readability is imminent whether you escape ( as you should IMO ) this time or not .

*Kol*

Morgase wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I'm just worried cause I've never been in trouble before (as seamus put it I honestly am just an ordinary hard-working person).

That will go against you, the law is not on the side of hard working tax payers. If you were a person living in mobile accomodation on the other hand you would probably get off scott free!!

Morgase

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You may be unlucky Morgase. One way to 'enforce' is to bring a scatter of unusual cases up before the judge , in your case a work vehicle which is not yours so who is legally responsible for cleaning it , is it the then driver ??

Yeah I think it is the driver.

I'd actually cleaned it only the day before (I'm normally pendantic about keeping the plates clean; it was fresh wet mud on the plate when I got caught and it came off with a splash of water from a bottle). To make matters more complicated it isn't even my company's vehicle - I'm doing site supervision and although I don't work for the contractor, he supplies us with our jeeps.

CharlieCroker

Driver is responsible for insuring that the vehicle is road legal at all times. Doesn't matter who owns it.
OP, there's not points for a licence plate offence, all you'll get is a fine in the district court, assuming the Garda puts it through. You should get the summons in the next 2 - 3 weeks.

Buffman

OP, don't worry too much about it.

If you do end up in court (most unlikely IMO), explain to the judge the circumstances, you just came off a site, didn't realise it was dirty, are really sorry etc...

You shouldn't even need to bother with a solicitor.

The WORST that will happen is a small fine. Every week I read in my local rag about people getting €200-€500 fines for no insurance, NCT, tax, licence, and not getting a ban from driving.

Some people even avoid a conviction if the make a contribution to charity.

But every judge is different.

Anan1

KerranJast wrote: »

I'm no legal expert by any judge worth his salt would chuck that out of court and give the Garda a bollocking for wasting his valuable time.

partyguinness wrote: »

TBH..it was a work jeep..they are dirty by there very nature.

The Gardai was being a wanker.

?? The Garda was just doing his/her job. Surely you two understand why the law requires reg plates to be legible?

SV

Anan1 wrote: »

?? The Garda was just doing his/her job. Surely you two understand why the law requires reg plates to be legible?

Ah yes, but to issue a court summons over it is ridiculous imo.

R.O.R

Anan1 wrote: »

?? The Garda was just doing his/her job. Surely you two understand why the law requires reg plates to be legible?

I completely agree that plates should be kept clean, for obvious reasons, but allowing someone to clean off the fresh mud from the plate with water would surely be a better outcome than issuing a summons?

Buffman

R.O.R wrote: »

I completely agree that plates should be kept clean, for obvious reasons, but allowing someone to clean off the fresh mud from the plate with water would surely be a better outcome than issuing a summons?

Have to agree there, issuing a summons for just that is a bit anal retentive alright (but totally at the discretion of the Garda).

It would be a different story if there was a whole heap of stuff wrong with the jeep.

Cañitas

Buffman wrote: »

Have to agree there, issuing a summons for just that is a bit anal retentive alright (but totally at the discretion of the Garda).

It would be a different story if there was a whole heap of stuff wrong with the jeep.

Look at another side of the story.

A jeep that was involved in a robbery was stopped at a checkpoint. The drivers plate was obscured and the driver was unable to produce his license.

The garda in question cleaned the dirty plate and let him go with a smile.

Anan1

SV wrote: »

Ah yes, but to issue a court summons over it is ridiculous imo.

R.O.R wrote: »

I completely agree that plates should be kept clean, for obvious reasons, but allowing someone to clean off the fresh mud from the plate with water would surely be a better outcome than issuing a summons?

The Gardai don't make the laws, we only pay them to enforce them. If people get the idea that it's ok to drive with obscured reg plates where does that leave us? TBH, there should be a simple system of on-the-spot fines for this kind of stuff, but there isn't.

Omcd

I wonder if its legal to fit an automatic wiper of some sort to a reg plate ?

godtabh

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The most you will get is a €100 fine if you show up and plead guilty and say that your company has no 'procedure' about plates .

Alot of sites and planning permissions require wheel washes etc so that construction traffic dont spoil local roads. I've seen trucks been done for this by CC with Garda present