This one may get moved but we shall see.

ScouseMouse

In a family run business, where the owners are parents, can a child helping out in a shop recieve a wage. There are no issues of age as immediate family are excluded from all legislation (I am aware of).

Now the kind of work is irrelevant, so no need to start talking about exploitation blah blah. Say a child helps in the shop for two hours fetching things and showing people where things are (between reading Hannah Montana mags). Could the child go on the payroll and get paid for this.

Just a thought as its a hypothetical situation.

newman10

What age is the child. AFAIK you have to be over 16 to be registered for employment.

ScouseMouse

The child could be very young, say seven.

I do know you can employ 15 year olds with restrictions, so the 16 thing is mistaken.

If the child was "helping mammy" who is the owner, then all legislation about general staff does not apply. All employment legislation I have researched, excludes close family. So if the child had a PPS number then they could, IN THEORY, earn money tax free up to their tax free allowance.

newman10

Dont know about a 7yo but on occasions my 16yo has done some hours for her "pocket money"

MB74

Not sure but wouldn't think so. Perhaps just as important though is will your insurance cover it!!!

seamus

It's not legal to "employ" a child under 14 years of age. It's perfectly legal to ask the child to do things around the place, but they cannot be an employee and earn income from the work.
After that, other non-employment legislation takes over in relation to the protection of children.

The relevant statutes allow you to employ children provided that the workplace and the home are on the same premises (e.g. a farm) and the work isn't "industrial work".

ScouseMouse

Thanks Seamus

OK, this is getting to where I want to go.

So could a young daughter who helps their mam for two hours in a week, get paid/recompense/reward for it.

Say the child was given 50 euro a week for fetching things - it could be put into the kids own bank account for, say, a future education.

Now it could/would be paid through the official company wage system, everything declared legitimately. Assuming that the child had a PPS number with tax credits, it could ultimately be tax free for such a small amount.

While if the mam was putting 50 euro into an account from her wages, as a director paying higher tax and PRSI S1 , this method (hypothetically) could save the mam income tax/levys/PRSI deductions.

What does everyone think. I think this depends on the legalities of a young child OFFICIALLY working. As mentioned before, all legislation I have read up on, excludes close family.

DubTony

I haven't looked into this for years, but I can confidently say that children of business owners were not subject to the same rules and laws as other kids. With many small family businesses in this country (primarily rural grocery stores) it was seen as acceptable for the kids to work in the shop.

www.entemp.ie is a good place to look up this sort of legislation.

edit: Now I'll try to answer your real question. All employees should be on the payroll for PAYE and PRSI purposes, irrespective of who they are, or whether or not they earn enough to pay tax.

jhegarty

Sounds like a plan to avoid/evade tax to me.

stepbar

Can't you not legally give your child a certain amount of a gift every year with out effecting their inheritance?

jhegarty

That wouldn't be an expese of business then. It would have to come from taxed income.

ScouseMouse

In the recent past, Entemp spotchecked me and found me pretty much OK. A few advisories but that was it.

As I have said several times, every bit of employment legislation seems to exclude immediate family. I have read everything I can find because of my dealings with Entemp.

Maybe I should just ring the inspector and ask him as I have his mobile number. I was mainly looking for peoples input from the trade and to see if anyone has any experience of such a situation.

On the subject of evading tax, that had not crossed my mind, but over the years I have been aware of partners/brothers/mums being on the books to use their tax free allowance, even though they had never set foot in the place. I have NEVER done this however.

Thanks all for the input.

Superscouse

Smcgie

Cavan Man? ;-)

ScouseMouse

Who or what is CAVAN MAN?