Upgrade, budget 1000-1500

jeff lebowski

Hi all,

I had posted this in the general computing section but I was told that you lads in here are the experts and to repost so here goes...

I have a budget of 1000-1500 and I am looking to get as powerful a machine as possible. I dont know about going down the self-build route as I have never done it before. I am looking for a PC to use for

- Photoshop work
- general entertainment (latest games, DVD etc.)
- something I can hook up to a HDTV
- photo and video editing

I saw these 2 on the UK Dell Outlet site: here and here. These seem to fit the bill and are reasonably priced. Any feedback or suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

PogMoThoin

Links not working m8

jeff lebowski

Sorry, the sessions timed out on the Dell site. The specs are:

Studio Desktop 540 (System Identifier. FLXJZ30J)
Studio Desktop 540MT Intel Core 2 Quad-Core Q9400 (2.66GHz)
English Genuine Windows Vista SP1 Home Premium
System Price £774.90
spacer
Operating System: English Genuine Windows Vista SP1 Home Premium
Memory: 4GB MB Dual Channel DDR2 800MHz (2x2048)
Hard Disk Drive: 1TB HD (7200Rpm)
Video: Graphics 512MB nVidia GeForce 9800GT
Sound Card: Sound Card Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme
DVD Drive: DVD (16X)
Optical Drive : 6X Blu-Ray Drive
MISC: Ship Accessory English Docs with UK/Irish Power Cord
Dell Quietkey Black Keyboard
DVI to VGA port adapter
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme
PCIe 1505 Network Card
Mouse Dell Wheel USB 2 Button Scroll Black

and

Studio Desktop 540 (System Identifier. FLV4K6WJ)
Studio Desktop 540MT Intel Core 2 Quad-Core Q9400 (2.66GHz)
Windows Vista SP1 Home Premium
System Price £614.68
spacer
Operating System: Windows Vista SP1 Home Premium
Memory: 4GB MB (4x1024MB) 800Mhz DDR2
Hard Disk Drive: 750GB HD Serial ATA non Raid (7200 Rpm)
Video: Graphics 512MB nVidia GeForce 9800GT
DVD Drive: DVD (16X)
Optical Drive : 6X Blu-Ray Drive
MISC: DVI to VGA port adapter
Dell Quietkey Black Keyboard
Ship Accessory
PCIe 1505 Network Card
Mouse Dell Wheel USB 2 Button Scroll Black

mus3

You'll never get someone on this forum recommending Dell! Or pretty much any PC manufacturer... 90% of the time you'll build for much cheaper, especially on the higher end of the market.
There are websites that will build your computer for around €30 (hardwareversand.de being one) and your €1,000 would go much further there.

Hopefully someone can list out some parts for you, I don't have the time right now, but there's a good thread here on what €1,000 will get you, ie: a lot more than that Dell!!

jeff lebowski

So, hardwareversand.de will build whatever spec I want and would that come with a warranty as well? I just had a look at Dell cos I got a good deal from their outlet store before.

So, anyone suggest what kind of a beast I would get for 1000 off that german site? Ideally want something that is lightning quick to start up, run multiple programs like Photoshop CS3 and Dreamweaver at the same time, amange all my films, music and photos and run the latest games. I suppose, an all round entertainment PC. Also, hoiw do I go about playing movies on my PC on a HDTV?

Cheers

mus3

jeff lebowski wrote: »

So, hardwareversand.de will build whatever spec I want and would that come with a warranty as well? I just had a look at Dell cos I got a good deal from their outlet store before.

Yup, warranties generally start at 2 years for computer parts, so it's better than the 12 month Dell, and you won't need to send the whole thing away if something does go wrong!

jeff lebowski wrote: »

So, anyone suggest what kind of a beast I would get for 1000 off that german site? Ideally want something that is lightning quick to start up, run multiple programs like Photoshop CS3 and Dreamweaver at the same time, amange all my films, music and photos and run the latest games. I suppose, an all round entertainment PC. Also, hoiw do I go about playing movies on my PC on a HDTV?Cheers

A very important question then is what is your monitor resolution? That will greatly impact on what GPU you'll need. I added a mid-range HD4770, although that can be upgraded to HD4870/90 if needed.
Lots of RAM for PS and DW, 6GB+ will cost less than €100.
1TB HD for films, music etc.
AMD processor + Motherboard. Haven't done much research done on these. Could easily swap for Intel.
Case can be changed depending on taste.
Power supply will be enough to power it all, unless serious upgrades made
Add a DVD/Blu-ray drive as required.

Threw that together while on a break, probably not best option, but is pretty good!

Solitaire

How much video editing/encoding do you think you'll be up to? Any heavy-duty applications for work/hobbies? Just wondering if there's enough call for pushing your budget a bit past the €1000 mark to get a decent i7 build...

Being a lazy git I'll re-post an earlier (and probably still viable) build showing a sub-€1150 (inc. assembly and p&p) i7 build that'll eat almost anything for breakfast.



Note that's a slightly CUDA-optimized build, if you don't need CUDA (or even know what I'm talking about) this graphics card may be a tad better in the long run.

Do you already have or still need a monitor? Or other peripherals?

jeff lebowski

Thanks for the replies lads. I'm glad I posted here now, I never even heard of that parts site before.....far more bang for your buck. I could push the budget up a bit alright. What are the benefits of the i7 chip? I really want to get an animal of a machine that can handle anything I throw at it. I'm mainly gonna be doing web development, graphics work and hoping to get into video stuff.

I have a laptop at the moment so would need a monitor too. Was thinking of something big, 23" maybe? Also, what's the story with getting stuff on my hard disk to play on my TV? Can it be done wirelessly? I would need a wireless keyboard and mouse as well, a wifi adapter and USB hub. Also, what kind of sound card and speakers would you recommend? I'd like to get the whole shebang from the one place and have them put the build together.

Effluo

you'll prob end up going somewhere else for the keyboard as hws.de only have one english localised keyboard and that's not wireless and is probably diabolical at it's price too (<€5).
well here's a link to different media players....
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articlesearch.jsp?agid=1057&search.reset=1&search.sKey=

it looks like you can buy a separate harddrive for some of them and then i'd suppose put films on it with a usb cable, others have wireless capabilities

also i doubt that you'd need a usb hub there's prob more than 8 usb ports available between your case and motherboard...

mus3

jeff lebowski wrote: »

What are the benefits of the i7 chip? I really want to get an animal of a machine that can handle anything I throw at it. I'm mainly gonna be doing web development, graphics work and hoping to get into video stuff.

Well the i7 will def handle everything you throw at it! It benchmarks higher than anything else in graphics and video, sometimes by a huge margin. Whether the difference between it and a top C2D or AMD Phenom II is worth the extra €€€ is up to you, but since you want an animal, then I would say it is! It's also a great overclocker, so if you ever want to get some extra performance out of it, it won't be too hard.

jeff lebowski wrote: »

I have a laptop at the moment so would need a monitor too. Was thinking of something big, 23" maybe?

Something 1920x1280 will do the job nicely. Probably 24" for the best value. Can't really recommend anything though. If you want a monitor like that to play games at the higher quality settings, then a HD4870 (or Nvidia equivalent) is the min you should get.

jeff lebowski wrote: »

Also, what's the story with getting stuff on my hard disk to play on my TV? Can it be done wirelessly?

Lots of options. If you have an X360 or PS3, they can do that already. Otherwise there are a lot of wireless streamers available. Only recommendation is if you want to stream anything hi-def, wireless N is a must! I just stream to my PS3, so no recommendations again!

jeff lebowski wrote: »

I would need a wireless keyboard and mouse as well, a wifi adapter and USB hub. Also, what kind of sound card and speakers would you recommend? I'd like to get the whole shebang from the one place and have them put the build together.

You probably won't need a hub, there'll be around 10 on any i7 system you build! That's what high-end gets you...
Your motherboard will more than likely be enough for your sound requirements, so nothing there. Speakers... that depends on whether you want 2.1, 5.1, etc. I'm very happy with my basic Acoustic Energy Aego M 2.1s, really really great sound. I picked mine up for about €100. If you want HD Audio for playing Blu-rays, then I'm outta help.

Solitaire

Nehalem is about as good as any other modern CPU at games but it eats applications for breakfast It does run fairly hot though and the stock cooler is a bit meh so that S1283 (and mounting kit) will come in very handy... plus if you decide to OC it'll keep things very cool in there

If you want a "beast" of a system then you might want the case I put up... a real "beasty" looking thing but very quiet compared to the competition *cough*900*cough*

If you want full HD 1080p resolution (1900*1080) then a 1GB HD4870 is the minimum graphics card for decent gaming.

Adding a sound card (one actually worth buying that is!), monitor, keyboard and mouse will push your budget toward the high end of your budget if you go for the i7. Bear in mind that most sound cards under the €60 mark are usually no better than onboard sound. Unfortunately HWVS doesn't stock Asus cards and all the solid mid-range Auzentechs are out of stock

Look closer to home for the keyboard and mouse - MemoryC have some solid gaming-oriented ones for cheap but if you want the best typing experience then look elsewhere.

sdanseo

mus3 wrote: »

You'll never get someone on this forum recommending Dell! Or pretty much any PC manufacturer... 90% of the time you'll build for much cheaper, especially on the higher end of the market.
There are websites that will build your computer for around €30 (hardwareversand.de being one) and your €1,000 would go much further there.

Hopefully someone can list out some parts for you, I don't have the time right now, but there's a good thread here on what €1,000 will get you, ie: a lot more than that Dell!!

Komplett had a PC-building thing, can't find it now so maybe not any more. Wasn't 100% flexible but free to put it together IIRC.

jeff lebowski

Thanks for all the info lads.

A few different options there.....not too sure which route to take!

Anyone able to throw together a spec based on an i7, 1 TB HD, 1GB gfx card, 6GB RAM and a 24" monitor. I have a rough idea of the main components that would be needed but its all the various motherboard options, case, PSU etc. that I wouldnt be too informed on.

Thanks

jeff lebowski

Any other suggestions lads?

Blazer

I'd go with what Solitare has posted..however I'd change the PSU to a Corsair 650w. They are excellent PSU's and way better than Antec.

GPU wise--it's down to the ATI 4890 or GTX275.
If you're only playing a few games then it's not worth getting the bigger cards.
Both of these come in around the €220 mark or thereabouts.

If you could afford it I'd definitely get a SSD drive.
In fact I stuck with my current spec below rather than upgrading to the i7 as the SSD drive makes a tremendous difference..especially the new ones out from G-Skill or OCZ. These are 3 times faster than hard drives and apps like photoshop/video editing show a huge performance. They are expensive though.

Solitaire

They are excellent PSU's and way better than Antec

Correct on the first count, completely wrong on the second :P

TX650W is a mid-range Seasonic, EA650 is a mid-range Delta. If you do a bit of research you will find that for intents and purposes Seasonic = Delta in terms of win - like-for-like units perform almost identically across the board (check out JG's reviews of Delta's Signature and Seasonic's M12D) In general the EA650 is comparable, yet newer than, the TX650, so you sacrifice the single 12V rail, looks and badge-snobberability and instead gain improved efficiency and stability at a lower price tag. Bear in mind that unit costs nearly twice that on Elara when they had it, for €75-odd the HWVS price is absurdly low even for them

Blazer

Solitaire wrote: »

Correct on the first count, completely wrong on the second :P

TX650W is a mid-range Seasonic, EA650 is a mid-range Delta. If you do a bit of research you will find that for intents and purposes Seasonic = Delta in terms of win - like-for-like units perform almost identically across the board (check out JG's reviews of Delta's Signature and Seasonic's M12D) In general the EA650 is comparable, yet newer than, the TX650, so you sacrifice the single 12V rail, looks and badge-snobberability and instead gain improved efficiency and stability at a lower price tag. Bear in mind that unit costs nearly twice that on Elara when they had it, for €75-odd the HWVS price is absurdly low even for them

I'm convinced

jeff lebowski

Thanks for the suggestions lads. Gonna buy this in the next few weeks. Anyone able to throw together a spec based on an i7, 1 TB HD, 1GB gfx card, 6GB RAM and a 24" monitor.

Cheers

jeff lebowski

Hi,

Have been searching round various custom PC sites (scan, dabs, hardwareversand, PCSpecialist, overclockers) and I'm at a loss as to what to buy.....can't see the wood for the tree's so to speak! Anyone wanna throw a few final suggestions or builds at me? I'm sure the compnenet prices have dropped a small bit in the last 2 months since I first posted. Budget is still €1000 max. Seeing good deals in £STG though. Basic spec I want is:

CPU: Not sure, need power for games, small bit of video, heavy photoshop
RAM: 4gig min
HD: 1 TB
GFX: 1 gig

Thanks in advance

jeff lebowski

What about this for example: www.aria.co.uk - Gladiator Trident

jonny72

jeff lebowski wrote: »

What about this for example: www.aria.co.uk - Gladiator Trident

Its actually not such a bad deal.. but..

the motherboard is of the cheap variety I am sure
The PSU will probably be a very cheap brand
the graphics cards will just be for low end gaming

For the same price on hardwareversand you can get roughly the same pc, but with a better motherboard, quality PSU and something like a Nvidia 260gtx 216 (which will be a good deal faster than two quite slow cards in SLI), including the speakers, monitor, mouse/keyboard and speakers and vista built and installed for around the same price.

I am not knocking that PC, it does have a warranty, but it has weak graphics coupled with some cheapish components, which when you are spending about 1000 euros is not something you should scrimp on.

kaimera

there was a 23" dell monitor on the dell site with a crazy res of 2048*xxxx for 260 or so.

komplett have a a 23" for less but not as good a spec iirc

Solitaire

Just saw what the Trident has graphics-wise. The video cards (plural!) supplied gave me the giggles. Not the nice kind.

Jeff, you still need a monitor? More importantly, does that €1000 budget include one? Might start to make things just a wee bit tight (for i7) if the budget's €750 after the monitor comes out

jeff lebowski

I wasn't really sure about the gfx card, my knowledge on the latest and greatest offerings isn't the best. So, do you all reckon hardwareversand would be the best bet? I saw a few deals like the one above but on closer inspection by more knowledgeable people, they don't seem as good.

Anyone wanna throw together a hardwareversand spec for me? I onyl have an idea of the core components, not about PSU, motherboard etc. so thats where my spec would fall down.

Thanks

jeff lebowski

How about this:

Processor (CPU) - AMD PHENOM II X4 955 BLACK EDITION 3.2 GHz SOCKET AM3 8MB CACHE

Memory (RAM) - 4GB CORSAIR XMS3 DDR3 1600MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY (2x2GB)

Motherboard - ASUS® M4A79-T DELUXE: AM3, DUAL DDR3, S-ATA II, 4 x PCI-E x 16, 2 x PCI

Operating System -
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64-bit + Windows 7 Upgrade Voucher (£86)

USB Options - 8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD

Hard Disk - 1.5TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

1st CD/DVD Drive - 22x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

Graphics Card - 1GB ATI RADEON™ HD 4870 PCI EXPRESS

Sound Card - ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities - ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT

Memory Card Reader - INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)

Case - STYLISH SILVER/BLACK TRIDENT CASE + 2 FRONT USB

Power Supply & Case Cooling - 700W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£59)

Processor Cooling - ARCTIC COOLING FREEZER 64 PRO PWM QUIET AMD CPU COOLER (£19)

Monitor - 24 Inch Wide TFT Silver/Black 1920 x1080 8MS D-Sub, DVI (£169)
Keyboard & Mouse - Logitech® Deluxe 660 Cordless Keyboard & Optical Mouse (£16)

Speakers - LOGITECH S120 2.0 BLACK SPEAKER SYSTEM (£7)

£1051 inc delivery from pcspecialist.co.uk

jonny72

jeff lebowski wrote: »

How about this:


£1051 inc delivery from pcspecialist.co.uk

The top value quad chips you can get now are the q9550 and the AMD 955
They are about equal in speed IF you aren't into overclocking

A system with 4 gigs ram, one of those chips, powerful graphics card, 1 tb drive, GOOD case, GOOD psu and decent motherboard, will set you back about 800 euros on hardwareversand

You would then have to pay for Vista, monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc

It would run all the latest games pretty much flawlessly and last a long time.


OR


You could choose to futureproof your PC more and go the i7 route, will be the same for games right now, but faster at encoding, compressing, and be much more future proof

BUT

to go i7, the simplest way to explain, is that it adds 150 to 200 to a current top spec
So if u went the build above, it would cost, maybe 800 with a q9550
If you go i7, with i920 chip, then it would be close to 1000 euros

Its your choice, but right now you should go to google and type i920 review, q9550 review, x2 955 review and read up a bit, then you'll get a fair idea, look at all the comparison graphcs etc

As for graphics cards -
Nvidia 260 sp or 275 (150 to 200 euros)
Ati 4890 (160~+euros)


but I don't recommend buying POWERFUL components and mixing them with cheap PSU's/ram/motherboard/case just to lower the price, not good for the long run.

Solitaire

£1055 != €1000! More like €1200...

HWVS STRIKES!



Now use the remaining ~€270 for a really nice screen and keyboard/mouse. Much higher spec and higher quality than PCSpecialist. Better graphics, far better CPU, case, cooling and PSU.

Case note: I usually include 3 extra fans with the Midgard (either three 120mm mingers or a couple of pricier 140mm for the top exhausts) owing to its bundling of a three-fan PWM speed controller to set the speed and noise of said fans to taste. Allegedly the two fans bundled with the Midgard are already pretty quiet at 12V. For a more powerful system I like to max out the fans on it and another tip when using 140mm top exhausts is to reverse the direction of the case's normal rear exhaust so it sucks air in and with the bottom and front intake fans help create positive pressure with all hot air moving from bottom to top. Less dust (and thus filter-washing antics) this way too.

If you want to keep things under a grand with the monitor I'll dice up a Q9550 build. Not as good but cheaper.

jeff lebowski

Excellent post solitaire, cheers! Could you throw together the Q9550 build as well? Thanks, much appreciated. It looks like HWVS is the business when it comes to this stuff.

jeff lebowski

Solitaire could you throw up a Q9550 build if you get a chance, cheers.

jeff lebowski

Hey, got the €'s sorted now to buy a system. It boils down to the build solitaire gave above or something similar with a Q9550 system. For graphics, gaming and web development, would a Q9550 system do? I saw a nice 23" Acer monitor on Amazon for £150 or so as well.

Solitaire

Amazing how fast a week disappears when you're standing there like a retard staring at your new car

Anyway, I'm currently waiting to see if the HD4890 comes back into stock under €150. If not then you must drop back to the HD4870 or GTX260+ around €125-135 a pop or expect to pay big bucks.

jeff lebowski

If it was round €150 that wouldn't be too much of a problem....I can give or take a little with the €1000 budget.

jeff lebowski

Is this a good offer? Just saw it on overclockers, down to £756 from £906 - Titan Goliath on OC.co.uk

Solitaire

Not bad, just bear in mind that when you add the HD4890, Irish VAT, and p&p you're really looking at a ballpark figure of ~€1050 without OS, screen, peripherals etc.... But at least you have a nice wee OC on the i7

jeff lebowski

It's looking like hardwareversand.de can't be beaten at all! A Q9550 built might do the job for me Solitaire if you had any recommendations for that....... I'll stop pestering you then and make a decision! Thanks

Solitaire

XFX HD4890 back in stock Xigmatek Midgard, now out of stock! :rolleyes:

Oh well, at least it's just a hair over €770 shipped...



Went overkill on the mobo for you If you do intend to add a second HD4890 later get the Superflower Atlas 680W or the Corsair TX750 instead of the Antec.

jeff lebowski

I'm just about to click on the checkout on HWVS, had to swap a few components as they were out of stock and I don't want it to hold up the whole order. Am I missing anything? The items I changed were the RAM, the PSU and the DVD RW. Thanks.



It comes to €778 inc €20 for them to build it. Think delivery then is €30.

Was going to order this 23" Acer monitor from Amazon and this logitech EX10 wireless keyboard and mouse

jeff lebowski

On second thoughts, I've added this to my package: LG Flatron 23" from HWVS so everything will all be delivered in one go. Final verdiect before I hit my bank a/c?

Effluo

Yeah if you've no plans to upgrade to 2 4890's then i'd get a cheaper motherboard.
There's very little point in getting a crossfire mobo especially when your psu won't support two 4890's too...

though, Not a bad price on the ol' monitor i must say

jeff lebowski

Well, in terms of upgrade, what can I do with the 4890....add more memory to it? Don't really think I'd need 2 gfx cards. Would I save much by getting a less swanky mobo? That spec is based on what the extremely knowledgeable and helpful solitaire recommended. Gonna order this thing tonight anyway.....after a few more tweaks maybe

Effluo

The reason why that mobo is the price it is is cause it has that second pcie slot...

http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=26108&agid=659

Something like this would be cheaper and still do all you want it to

meepins

Is that 30 euro delivery charge regardless of what you're getting? For example adding in a big monitor , case etc would the cost remain the same?

jeff lebowski

I think it's just their standard DHL charge from mainland Europe to Ireland. The charge was the same before and after adding the monitor. It's ordered now anyway. I went with the mobo in the spec above cos it was only 25-30 extra compared to the 1 Effluo recommended and I'd like to have the option for further expansion down the line. Anyone know how long it usually takes to get kit from HWVS?

jeff lebowski

I placed my order yesterday and the money has left my account but I haven't got an email or anything off HWVS yet. What is their normal procedure? Do they contact you to let you know about delivery or what?

Effluo

Usually takes a few days for dispatch me thinks.

Be patient, prob won't arrive till about early, the week after next

jeff lebowski

Didn't think it would take that long for €30 delivery. Sure it'll be here when it's here. Just found it odd not to get a confirmation email or anything. Ze Germanz must have a different way of doing things!