Dublin Traffic Cameras along the Quays/Liffey

LegacyUser

Folks,

Quick question,

Do you think it would be possible for someone to jump/fall into the Liffey without there be any recording off it on Dublin's traffic camera's.?

I don't want to go into specifics, but, I find it hard to believe, let's say, if a well known celebrity/politician/a small child was seen on CCTV on the quays around the Four Courts at a certain time, and was then found floating in the liffey up by the east link four hours later, that there would be no CCTV/traffic camera able to pinout the moment in which the person hit the water.

Someone very close to me died by drowning in the Liffey and I'm told there is no record of the person hitting the water. I don't believe that. A camera somewhere must have picked it up and could provide much needed answers as to exactly what happened. I'm assuming the technology is available to zoom into these live images at Dublin traffic control <snip>Traffic Cam Website Link Removed</snip>

If the guards can't/won't help me where do I turn? I just can't get my head around the "fact" that the authorities don't have Dublin City Centre covered by CCTV. Unless, I'm being left in the dark some other reason.

Victor

As a mod - I'm not sure about this thread. While in any tragedy, there is why / when / where / how (been there twice), surely there are limits to how much detail those involved need to know.

---

Not every spot is covered - its junctions, not straights. The cameras are pan / tilt / zoomable so they might be pointed at something else when this happened. the watch traffic, not the quays. Some aren't working. If you want to try to get information, talk to a solicitor. While there may be a charge, they can push the right buttons with officialdom. you could also try the likes of FLAC www.flac.ie

If there is a coroner's hearing, you are entitled to attend and be represented. You might have a look here: Coroner and Inquest Frequently Asked Questions

I'm wondering - have you been able to sit down with someone to talk out what happened, both on a factual and an emotional basis, both might help.

LegacyUser

http://www.foi.gov.ie/

LegacyUser

the inquest has been and gone, recorded an open verdict, so i don't have any conclusive answers at all. no one saw nothing. last sighting at the 4 courts, then nothing. my gut feeling is that if it was looked into in detail some CCTV could be found. it would help me to now exactly what happened. too much ambiguity. i feel i have a right to know every single detail. i just don't know where else to turn now for answers (good or bad).

delete the thread if you want, having a bad night, and just thought i'd throw it out there. i'll go back to my solicitor on it.

just keep thinking if it was someone famous every detail would be known/no stone left unturned.

Bluetonic

Whilst I offer no help, I do hope you get some sort of closure on this soon for your own peace of mind.

Best of luck.

antoinolachtnai

The traffic cameras aren't 'omnidirectional' - they point in one direction at a time. A lot of the time they are zoomed in on a junction and so won't cover places where people are walking. Also, the cameras are not any higher resolution than your regular TV camera - you can't really zoom in on the image after the fact.

If it helps, walk down the quays yourself and have a look at where the traffic cameras area and where they are pointed. There are actually relatively few of them.

I have no idea what happened in this case, but I'd be surprised if the possibility of traffic camera evidence wasn't looked into.

The only other thing that could have been done would have been to ask property owners in the area to check their cctv, to see if your friend had turned up somewhere else along the way. Maybe this was done, maybe not. It might have given an idea of the time of death, but it wouldn't have given any definitive evidence of what actually happened.

The other possible avenue these days is mobile phone records. If your friend was carrying a mobile phone, there might be some indication of where something had happened. Not necessarily though.

There are certainly cases where people just go missing and can't be found at all, regardless of the resources applied. The Madeline case is the obvious one - no end of resources and publicity have been put into it, it happened in an area that would have had a lot more people around than the area you mention, but after all that, there is really no solid lead. The Trevor Deely case seems to be similar - everything that could be done was done -. The Philip Kearns case is another where a lead only emerged recently, decades after the death. In all these cases, the family don't even have the comfort of having a body returned to him.

The garda could have gone out with some sort of appeal looking for information, but it wouldn't necessarily bring you any closer to the truth. In all these high profile cases you hear about, people come forward with information which turns out to be irrelevant or just plain wrong. If someone had seen something, the chances are they would have come forward.

If you have some suspicions about the way the case was handled, you should certainly talk to the solicitors. There are avenues that can be gone down to have the whole thing investigated. But really, even if it turns out the investigation was not very thorough, it is unlikely that there will be much more that can be found out now.

Like the other poster, I hope you can find a way to live with the ambiguity that has been left behind.

MicraBoy

You can see the city councils traffic cameras here:
http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Traffic/Pages/TrafficCamerasMap.aspx

It would be unlikely that anything useful could be seen from any of those. the only alternative would be checking out private CCTV along the route, in which case you would have to try and spot any cameras you think might be useful and find the owners. A long shot I would say. Did the Gardai not do that?

On a side note, I see a body was pulled out from the Liffey today, it was only discovered due to work on the new Samuel Beckett bridge. But it goes to show people can fall in and are never seen or found.

prinz

Unregistered wrote: »

Folks,

Quick question,
Do you think it would be possible for someone to jump/fall into the Liffey without there be any recording off it on Dublin's traffic camera's.?

Yes. The quaysides are not monitored completely 24/7 by cameras.

Unregistered wrote: »

If the guards can't/won't help me where do I turn? I just can't get my head around the "fact" that the authorities don't have Dublin City Centre covered by CCTV. Unless, I'm being left in the dark some other reason.

Easy, because even when such an idea is raised on a small scale the "Civil Liberties" bandwagon get up in arms about 'big brother' style monitoring. It's obviously someone's civil liberty to mug you on a Dublin street and not have to think about cameras.

I presume this incident did not occur in the middle of the day, i.e. you're not looking for eyewitnesses, and you don't want to let it rest. There's not much you can do. As matter of interest why would you believe the gardaí "won't" help you?

I would suggest counselling to come to terms with it, rather than make yourself ill with theories/what ifs/conspiracies etc.

LegacyUser

after much thought throughout the night i called the superindenent of my local garda station this morning who was involved the investigation who has agreed to meet me and answer any questions i have. the superindenent was an acquaintance of the deceased, knew her very well, so I will relay my concerns to him directly.

disappointed, but not surprised, to hear the quays aren't 100% covered. some local business were asked for CCTV but i don't believe a thorough investigation occurred. the last sighting of the deceased was at 2am that night.

i reckon the guards have kept details from the family to protect us. i won't go into anymore details as to why that might be, only that the deceased was well acquainted with the local gardai, and not in a criminal aspect. I think they've withheld info confirming it was a suicide to protect the family left behind. The deceased, while not a member of the gardai, was seen as "one of their own", we received a garda escort at the funeral for instance.

Something has been brushed under the table, I've discovered a good chunk of it myself (why upset me greatly so I can see why they didn't tell us), but there is still a missing piece the jigwsaw.

mobile phone & jacket she was wearing were never found. i ring it the odd time to hear her voicemail, it's oddly comforting.

I'll see how i get on next week. i have started counseling which ironically has led to me reexamine the investigation and has me where I am now.

My name is URL

Hi OP

I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

tbh however, if the Garda investigation is still ongoing, it may not be wise to mention to much about the particulars of the case.. If it happened that somebody who witnessed or was involved somehow, read this, it could jeopradize the investigation

ElBarco

I hope I'm not being insensitive on this. It's always worth remembering that it isn't possible to magnify crappy cctv footage to the extent they do in CSI, Law & Order etc.

LegacyUser

case is done and dusted at this stage, inquest over, everyone has moved on, so worries there. I'm the only one interested in reviving it.

i take the point about the images.

through the counseling i was able to recall a previous forgotten memory. I remember speaking to a Guard at the wake. He told me " ask me any questions you want, and I'll tell you the truth, but ask yourself, if you really want the answers". it's time for the answers.

Victor

Unfortunately, in some cases like this, especially where there is no body recovered, it is really hard on friends and family. The person has decided, in one form or another, to not have any more contact, whether they commit suicide or just move away for their own reasons. Obviously in this case, they didn't move away and we are morely likely dealing with an (alcohol induced?) accident or suicide.

While knowing reduces some of the frustration, does it really help the pain and the sorrow.

OP, I was talking to a garda recently about a (non-suspicious) death he had to investigate. He didn't go into all the detail, but it was truely shocking. Before you talk to that garda you spoke to at the wake, perhaps talk to someone else - maybe your counsellor, a garda, a doctor, undertaker and let them describe a random death to you. this might help inform you as to whether you do want to know all the details.

LegacyUser

victor, that's an interesting viewpoint. get a random death described to me? can you elaborate more on what the guard told you? i'm not sure what you mean by shocking?

you are right that this was an alcohol induced incident. i have the full toxicology & post mortem reports from the inquest file which was a pretty gruesome read in itself.

Victor

Unregistered wrote: »

i'm not sure what you mean by shocking?

It was a violent suicide.

LegacyUser

i can only imagine. a family friend (who I didn't know that well myself) jumped in front of a train last year. family never got to see the body. I suppose we were lucky. Her body would have been out in the Irish Sea had a worker on the docks not spotted it.

Zxc

I feel for the OP and the turmoil the not-knowing is causing. I hope you find peace of mind.

On the CCTV footage, if the incident took place a while back, would it be likely that footage is even still available at this stage? Isn't it usual that recordings are erased (and recorded over) after a while, like a month or two?

Victor

Zxc wrote: »

Isn't it usual that recordings are erased (and recorded over) after a while, like a month or two?

Often much quicker. I don't know what Garda and DCC policies are, although any reported incidents would be kept.

Redshift

The DCC traffic cameras are not recorded, they are used live by the operators to monitor traffic volumes and assist with adjustment of the scats system which controls alot of the traffic lights.
They can record an incident in progress if they see it but the cameras are not recorded full time.
The Gardai and DFB have remote access to the system from Pearse Street and Tara Street but again this is monitoring only.

emma k

Hi,

im sorry for your loss. i know how you feel my brother was recovred in the same area in October 2008. We have not gotten any answers as to why this happened. Please id love to have a better talk with you, if you could please email me for a chat id be grateful.
<snip>

Victor

Please don't feel obliged to contact anonymous people on the internet.

If you want, set up a separate account.*



* Dual accounts are tolerated on boards.ie, provided they are not used for muppetry, spam, etc.

Mr. Presentable

CCTV is usually to protect a premises, thus by it's very nature is unlikely to be pointed at a street/river. However, even in the wee hours of the morning there are taxi drivers, people going home etc who should see something. Dublin is a small city, but not that small that there wouldn't be passers-by.

Silverfish

nipplenuts wrote: »

CCTV is usually to protect a premises, thus by it's very nature is unlikely to be pointed at a street/river. However, even in the wee hours of the morning there are taxi drivers, people going home etc who should see something. Dublin is a small city, but not that small that there wouldn't be passers-by.

Please don't drag up old threads, thank you.