[PR] Taoiseach signals progress on Navan Rail link

IIMII

Dept of Transport, 21 May 2009

Visiting Navan today (Thursday, 21 May 2009) the Taoiseach welcomed the progress that is being made on the proposed Navan Rail link.

"Even though we are dealing with a very difficult economic situation, we are also planning for the continuing development of towns such as Navan."

"Work is already well underway on the first phase of the Navan rail link. This involves reopening seven and a half km of railway line running off the Maynooth line, at Clonsilla, to a proposed M3 interchange at Pace, near Dunboyne."

"There will be three new stations at Hansfield, Dunboyne and a major Park and Ride facility at Pace."

"When it opens, this rail line will provide commuters with a train every fifteen minutes in the morning and evening peak hour into Docklands Station in Dublin city centre".

"Irish Rail is making good progress constructing the Clonsilla to Dunboyne section and it remains on target to open for services in autumn next year."

The Taoiseach went on to say that Irish Rail has also made good progress in planning for the next phase of expansion and has now completed the feasibility study on phase II of the Navan Line, from Dunboyne to Navan.

"Irish Rail recently submitted the feasibility study to Government. It examined two possible routes in great detail - an option A which runs along the original railway alignment and an option B which is a new route to the east of Dunshaughlin."

"On the basis of the detailed analysis carried out by Irish Rail the preferred option has emerged as option A or the original railway alignment."

"The chosen option A of the original railway alignment had a number of advantages as it:
Provides a better economic rate of return for the State's investment;
Can be provided at significantly lower cost;
Was the preferred option from the public consultation carried out by Irish Rail - with over 80% indicating a preference for option A; and
Has a shorter journey time to Dublin of 59 minutes as opposed to 62 minutes for option B.

"On the basis of this analysis we will now be asking Irish Rail to proceed with the necessary preparations for a railway order application," An Taoiseach concluded.

IIMII

Election, anyone? At least the route issue has finally been decided, grand. The railway itself, let's see what happens

serfboard

IIMII wrote: »

Election, anyone? At least the route issue has finally been decided, grand. The railway itself, let's see what happens

You can have all the feasability studies and preferred routes that you like, until you actually have to put out some serious cash for the actual construction of the line.

3 thoughts.

1. Is is just me (OK, I know it's a script) but does the Taoiseach sound more knowledgeable than Dempsey? Mind you that wouldn't be hard.

2. In fairness they are constructing Phase I. I know it's later than planned but at least it's coming and it will be double-tracked.

3. Since they are employing people in the engineering section in IE, they might as well be doing something - even if there's no money to follow the plans through.

Announcing these plans in advance of a local election is purely coincidental :rolleyes:

Polar101

59 minutes? Is that any faster than the current bus service?

Zebra3

Quick question + slightly o-t, but why where the new line joins the existing Maynooth line at Clonsilla is there only one track joining the line instead of two?

IIMII

serfboard wrote: »

You can have all the feasability studies and preferred routes that you like, until you actually have to put out some serious cash for the actual construction of the line.

Yup. Even the railway order would be a major step, but this is going on since well before 1998

IIMII

Zebra3 wrote: »

Quick question + slightly o-t, but why where the new line joins the existing Maynooth line at Clonsilla is there only one track joining the line instead of two?

That's just a siding at the moment

IIMII

Polar101 wrote: »

59 minutes? Is that any faster than the current bus service?

On an average morning, 20 - 25 mins, on a bad morning an hour.

Cool Mo D

IIMII wrote: »

On an average morning, 20 - 25 mins, on a bad morning an hour.

20 minutes from Dublin city to Navan in the morning? Maybe if you have a rocket pack. Dublin to Navan in rush could be anything up to 2hours, although that will change with the M3 and less traffic what with no-one having jobs.

IIMII

Cool Mo D wrote: »

20 minutes from Dublin city to Navan in the morning? Maybe if you have a rocket pack.

The question was whether it was any faster than the current bus service

Gruffalo

Cool Mo D wrote: »

20 minutes from Dublin city to Navan in the morning? Maybe if you have a rocket pack. Dublin to Navan in rush could be anything up to 2hours, although that will change with the M3 and less traffic what with no-one having jobs.

Were IIMI's timings not a statement of how much faster the train would be than an existing bus.

Aard

Will the new Dart line run from Pace to Docklands, or Pace to Greystones?

DWCommuter

Docklands.

loyatemu

Surely whats going to happen is the majority of passengers will get off at Clonsilla to change onto a Connolly-bound train, which will cause mayhem.

KC61

loyatemu wrote: »

Surely whats going to happen is the majority of passengers will get off at Clonsilla to change onto a Connolly-bound train, which will cause mayhem.

Not necessarily...bear in mind that Macken Street bridge will be in place (hopefully) when the line opens.

Zoney

Well, even if there's no sign of anything happening, even having the route decided would be good. It really looked like it was being held up due to various interests in creating a diversionary route that would facilitate more development.

Hopefully even Pace P+R will be useful, at least for that part of West Dublin even if not further afield (seems unlikely there would be people pay to travel on the M3, then pay to park the car, then pay to travel by rail).

Stupido

even though they are not saying it, I believe the line to Navan will use the interconnector.

As the plans stand, the interconnector will be used by a DART line ('1' for arguements sake) from Hazelhatch to Howth/Malahide, while DART line '2' will go from Greystones to Maynooth. Navan will run into the docklands.

However if they run the Navan line into the interconnector and on to heuston, you are getting a doubling of service along the stations from Clonsilla to Heuston, which would allow this line to provide metro frequency services.

I have heard somewhere (cant remember where!) that plans are afoot to extend line 2 from greystones to Wicklow town, and line 1 up to Drogheda, replacing the carraiges with double decker trains (a la most of europe).

To add to this I think (my personal opinion) line 1 should branch off the short distance to Celbridge rather than hazelhatch and then up to Maynooth (all greenfield land, only a few KMs) giving a 'western' DART loop line.

A short branch to Ratoath and Ashbourne could also be provided from the Navan line, which could also connect with Slane, Duleek and Drogheda using the Tara mines line, giving a 'northern' DART loop line.

noelfirl

The line to Navan, if ever open, is apparently going to be diesel multiple unit operated. Ergo the interconnector wont be used. There's no real indication otherwise to suggest that Navan will be electric.

Stupido

it is stated in the EIS that "there are plans are to electrify the line in the future" - Section 1.2.3 of the non-technical summary

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Environmental%20Impact%20Statement%20Vol%201-4/Vol%201%20.pdf


Also Pace/Dunboyne is listed as a branch of the future Maynooth DART line upgrade as part of the Interconnector project

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

KC61

Stupido wrote: »

it is stated in the EIS that "there are plans are to electrify the line in the future" - Section 1.2.3 of the non-technical summary

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Environmental%20Impact%20Statement%20Vol%201-4/Vol%201%20.pdf


Also Pace/Dunboyne is listed as a branch of the future Maynooth DART line upgrade as part of the Interconnector project

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

That is only referring to Pace and not Navan. Navan will be DMU operated.

noelfirl

Stupido wrote: »

it is stated in the EIS that "there are plans are to electrify the line in the future" - Section 1.2.3 of the non-technical summary

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Environmental%20Impact%20Statement%20Vol%201-4/Vol%201%20.pdf

We've all learnt before that the word "plans" in conjunction with the phrase "in the future" means anything from "never" to "twenty years down the line". Either way, it doesn't even necessarily mean that the interconnector will be used for a looping line.

Also Pace/Dunboyne is listed as a branch of the future Maynooth DART line upgrade as part of the Interconnector project

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

A DART to Pace was always on the cards. But it doesn't seem that much guaranteed when you consider that IE would have to run diesel trains the rest of the way to Navan anyway.

karlr42

IIMII wrote: »

That's just a siding at the moment

It will always be a one-track affair at the junction, only the Maynooth-bound track will diverge, and then expand to two tracks after the canal

KC61

karlr42 wrote: »

It will always be a one-track affair at the junction, only the Maynooth-bound track will diverge, and then expand to two tracks after the canal

Incorrect.

There will be two lines diverging from the Maynooth line.

You can see this clearly from the alignment plans:
http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Alignment%20Plans/Alignment%20Plan%20No%20A001.pdf

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Alignment%20Plans/Alignment%20Plan%20No%20A002.pdf

The current stretch of track is a turnback siding for stabling the trains terminating at Clonsilla off the main running lines.

godtabh

loyatemu wrote: »

Surely whats going to happen is the majority of passengers will get off at Clonsilla to change onto a Connolly-bound train, which will cause mayhem.

Isnt docklands only a temp station?

If and when all the apartments/office blocks are finsihed down in the IFSC more people will want to go there.

karlr42

KC61 wrote: »

Incorrect.

There will be two lines diverging from the Maynooth line.

You can see this clearly from the alignment plans:
http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Alignment%20Plans/Alignment%20Plan%20No%20A001.pdf

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/dunboyne/Alignment%20Plans/Alignment%20Plan%20No%20A002.pdf

The current stretch of track is a turnback siding for stabling the trains terminating at Clonsilla off the main running lines.

Ah, thanks for that, last time I saw those alignment plans there was only one crossover planned, but that was a while back

SeanW

There wouldn't happen to be an election coming up or anything?

DWCommuter

Stupido wrote: »

even though they are not saying it, I believe the line to Navan will use the interconnector.

As the plans stand, the interconnector will be used by a DART line ('1' for arguements sake) from Hazelhatch to Howth/Malahide, while DART line '2' will go from Greystones to Maynooth. Navan will run into the docklands.

However if they run the Navan line into the interconnector and on to heuston, you are getting a doubling of service along the stations from Clonsilla to Heuston, which would allow this line to provide metro frequency services.

I have heard somewhere (cant remember where!) that plans are afoot to extend line 2 from greystones to Wicklow town, and line 1 up to Drogheda, replacing the carraiges with double decker trains (a la most of europe).

To add to this I think (my personal opinion) line 1 should branch off the short distance to Celbridge rather than hazelhatch and then up to Maynooth (all greenfield land, only a few KMs) giving a 'western' DART loop line.

A short branch to Ratoath and Ashbourne could also be provided from the Navan line, which could also connect with Slane, Duleek and Drogheda using the Tara mines line, giving a 'northern' DART loop line.

With the greatest respect Stupido and Im not having a pop at you, as I realise you are merely using the crayons, but that post belongs in the bonkers period that was the maverick pussycat. (Celtic Tiger)

Awash with money we thought we could do everything. In fact we just wanted to throw cash at any possible railway we could unearth. It was a brief period of wealth that is gone forever. We will be going back to the drawing board re. public transport. Perhaps a more "realistic" approach will develop. It will be a very very very long time before we have employment levels akin to what we had. Leave talk of branches here there and everywhere to the birds and dispell notions of double decker trains. We don't (and never did) need any of it. Read your history books to see why and throw in a few books on the Irish Economy circa 1999-2007.

As for the line to Navan? It's now safe to question the need for such a railway. It was born out of politics, adopted and promoted by developers, fudged by politics and ultimately will be killed off by politics. Economically its a disaster and on a national basis, in terms of taxpayers cash, is a complete waste of money. Just because rampantly careless planning and development took place under the aegis of poor Governance, it shouldn't mean that the taxpayer has to fund very expensive rail projects that duplicate the preferred mode of transport...THE CAR. If the Navan railway is built, along with the nearly completed M3, thats phenomenal investment along the same corridor. A corridor that effectively links one town with one city. Bonkers. The M7/9 road and corresponding rail line links loads of towns within a 50 mile distance of Dublin. (Naas, Kilcullen, Newbridge, Kildare, Athy, Carlow, Portlaoise.) Navan is just Navan at 30 miles distant.

I supported the Navan railway ,because it was promised. My attitude was simple. If the Government have the money for rail projects and they are going to pump it into daft as a brush projects in the west of Ireland, then give Navan its railway.(even its poor economics are better than the WRC and its social aspects in terms of quality of life are more rewarding) But Meath CC had no interest. IE had no interest and the Government dangled the carrot because of Noel Dempsey. No other reason. While they were dangling the carrot, they were building over the railway. They have done and ignore any gob****e that tries to tell you a bridge can be built here and an underpass can be installed there. A Government serious about this line wouldn't have let road builders bulldoze through it. But regardless, the line is too expensive and can't be justified.

If the interconnector gets built, then Navan can have its railway via Drogheda. As for that Dunboyne Pace gig? Well that was the railway for Navan commuters via the M3 and a few developers in HANSFIELD. The original report from the late 90s by MCC and IE clearly stated that extending from Pace to Navan was a non runner. Throw in the politics and hey presto we all believe that Navan needs its original direct line reopened. Between politics and a retarded CIE, can you really expect any sense whatsoever?

IIMII

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it. As seanw points out, there's an election around the corner and FF are facing a washout around the country. At least we might see the route preserved out of this, which as you rightly point out should have been done from the start. I notice the response to the announcement has been decidely muted - neither RTÉ nor the Irish Times carried the story. Why? Because they've heard it all before and they don't believe it. We had these announcements before prior to elections - Platform for Change, Transport 21 etc. I still hope that an alignment of some sorts can be identified and protected - that should be done immediately, 15 years later than it should have al;beit

DWCommuter

I never lose sleep over rail matters anymore. I merely draw inspiration from them.;)

dermo88

At this stage Derek, they are no longer worth losing sleep for. The material typed over the past 5 years since I joined boards.ie and commented on this issue will not make you sleep. It will be a wake up call.

They promised it in 1996.
They promised it in 1999.
They promised it in 2002.
They promised it in 2006.
They promised it in 2007.

Fool me once, more fool you. Fool me twice, more fool me. Fool me five times, then I am an amadan.

Clowen, go away and bury your head in shame. You and Noel Dempsey are beneath contempt, and the words and sentiments I have for you are not worth a ban, a police investigation or a prison sentence. Because frankly speaking, what I am willing to do to the Fianna Fail party would warrant that.

And I suspect I am not alone.

IIMII

Well, 2 updates on this.

1. Cowen refused to commit to funding for Phase 2
2. Construction is supposed to start in late 2011, early 2012.

Take what you will out of that. What I am taking out of it is that there is an election in a few weeks (as usual).