Ex-dogfighter to volunteer with Humane Society

luckat

http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2009/05/michael-vick.html

(Michael Vick is an American football star, very famous over there, who was identified as the key figure in a dogfighting ring. Having served his prison time, he is apparently now offering to work as a volunteer to help dogs. It would be great if this proves real.)

seanybiker

I dont think that because he is famous he should be talked about because he "wants" to do what thousands and thousands of "normal" people all over the world have been doing for years. Its the normal Joe Soaps I have more respect for not some famous fella who wants to have a good public image after been in jail for such a horrible reason.
Not getting onto thread starter at all, just me opinion is all.

Call me Socket

Nail on the head Seany!
Whoop de doo, Vick has remorse....or at least he wants everyone to think he has. If he wanted to make an impacting difference why doesn't he donate some of his millions to animal welfare so that the genuine animal lovers can put it to good use saving dogs, instead of pulling a PR stunt to win his back his fans?

Shelli

I agree with the above....plus to be honest, would you want someone of that mentality working with dog...I mean he 'says' he's reformed, but is it worth the risk? Would you let a 'reformed' arsonist work in a match factory? I think not!

Lauragoesmad

That guy is a danger to society. Thats like a paedo saying he's changed his ways and he wants to work for some childrens charity. :rolleyes:

Munster Gal

...or maybe he genuinely is reformed and wants to try and make amends on some level (not that he can ever make up for what he did which was truly evil). I have a friend in San Francisco who fosters ex-fighting dogs and many of these dogs get a second chance so maybe we, like the Humane Society should give Vick a chance to prove if he means what he says and give a long-term committment to animal welfare. Even if you don't belive Vick's reform to be genuine I'm happy enough to see him cleaning out kennels and scooping poop for a start.
The fact that he was so high-profile helped get anti-dogfighting legislation pushed through quicker than it may have done had he not been convicted which is a positive in all this awfulness. I'm also glad that his celebrity didn't lead to a smack on the wrist and that he actually got a custodial sentence.
This will be an interesting space to watch.

Call me Socket

I don't think for a moment that he would have volunteered if the news of it wasn't going to get picked up by the media.

Yes, people are capable of reformation, you see it all the time with alcoholics and drug users and law breakers.

Absence of compassion, or evil, or any other personality defects are different. It's a part of their formed personality and temperament.

Running a dog fighting organisation is against the law, and lots of people who get caught breaking the law can reform, ie. not break the law again. But no amount of time in jail, or the disgust and disapproval of thousands of fans, is going to make someone suddenly feel empathy for dogs when it is in their personality to enjoy watching dogs being hurt.

But dogs get, and deserve, a second chance because they don't have evil in them- they're just doing what they're trained to do, and a lot of them can be untrained.

Unlike Vick, imo. What he enjoys watching, participating in, and organising, isn't something that can just be extracted from his nature.

Munster Gal

Call me an optimist then because I believe some if not most people are capable of change on many levels. In a previous life, so to speak, I worked with teenagers who've fought dogs and who've carried out horrendous atrocities on other living creatures in training these dogs. I can distinctly remember two boys who made traumatic and painful recoveries and are genuinely remorseful for what they did - their rehabilitation took years and in a way they had to relearn what was acceptable and normal. I truly believe that they were conditioned to accept dog fighting as a normal sport. They had to reassess the values and norms in their society. They didn't view the fighting dogs in the same way as they viewed other dogs they kept as pets. At the same time there were others in the group and even though they'd give all the correct answers in session, you'd know darn well they didn't believe it and there was no way through. They were locked in through culture, environment and their peer group. I sincerely hope Vick turns out like Brayden and Hemi.

Call me Socket

I do admire your faith in human nature and its capacity to change. And I have seen people change, they've turned out to be very different people (unfortunately, it wasn't a change for the better!)
And I also agree that people can be remorseful, and genuinely regret what they've done..... but I'm not too sure that enjoyment of pain infliction is something that can be rectified.

I'd love to know what rehabilitation courses Vick attended in prison, or since.

I wonder if he sought help to change his view of dogs.

Or....is his manager the one that advised him to volunteer?

animalcrazy

Call me Socket wrote: »

But dogs get, and deserve, a second chance because they don't have evil in them- they're just doing what they're trained to do, and a lot of them can be untrained.

Actually in the US they put fighting dogs to sleep because they can't trust them out in new homes So the dogs have to suffer too.

Call me Socket

That's very sad....
Not all of them though? I think they're assessed first?
Weren't some of Vick's dogs rehomed?

PeakOutput

Lauragoesmad wrote: »

That guy is a danger to society. Thats like a paedo saying he's changed his ways and he wants to work for some childrens charity. :rolleyes:

you have got to be taking the piss

he is trying to get his life back on track according to all commentators in the know however i imagine this is just a publicity thing to make his past less of a big deal to the team that decides to take a chance on him

animalcrazy

I think they can rehome ones that haven't been fought before, like puppies or just dogs they hadn't gotten around to fighting.
I'm getting this from those programmes on Animal Planet, Animal cops Houston, Detroit and Philadelphia. When they get in the dogs it shows them and as they bring them to the kennels they try and fight with every dog on the way, sometimes they even put padlocks on the kennels, just in case. They wait until the trial is over and then put them to sleep, they are just complete fighting machines and it's impossible to bring them around because they can't trust them around dogs at all and can't rehome them because they don't want to be responsible for the dog attacking a young child or a neighbours dog.

Lauragoesmad

PeakOutput wrote: »

you have got to be taking the piss

he is trying to get his life back on track according to all commentators in the know however i imagine this is just a publicity thing to make his past less of a big deal to the team that decides to take a chance on him

All I'm saying is no rightminded person from any charity should let another person who abuses a certain type of creature or person work with their victims just because they NOW feel bad about what they did. Big Whoop! He feels remorse. But only after a manager or public relations person says he should.:rolleyes:

Munster Gal, I do kinda understand where you are coming from BUT that man is not the same as the youngsters you speak of who make mistakes and are born into dogfighting. He is a grown man who got into it as an adult, not for money or culture but for sport.:mad: I think you have to be a certain type of person to happilly profit from or enjoy dogfighting. Taking pleasure in another living things pain to me means you are sick or evil and maybe both.

Munster Gal

Call me Socket wrote: »

That's very sad....
Not all of them though? I think they're assessed first?
Weren't some of Vick's dogs rehomed?

There are rescue organisations who rehabilitate and rehome ex-fighting dogs who've actually been fought although not all of the dogs can be rehomed successfully. A friend of my mum's is involved with one of these organisations in San Diego (or San Francisco, can't remember), and he has 2 ex-fighting dogs himself - one was a brood bitch and the other was fought.
Perhaps I'm wrong but aren't some of Cesar Milan's dog ex-fighters?

Munster Gal

Lauragoesmad wrote: »

He is a grown man who got into it as an adult, not for money or culture but for sport. I think you have to be a certain type of person to happilly profit from or enjoy dogfighting. Taking pleasure in another living things pain to me means you are sick or evil and maybe both.

This is just for clarification and not for one second does it excuse or condone what he did.
From the article referenced by the OP,
"He said he grew up with dogfighting as a boy, and that he never sufficiently questioned it as he grew into manhood."

For further clarification the kids I worked with were extremely troubled, at risk teenagers. The dog-fighting was only part of the full picture and not the focus of our work at all. Ross Kemp did a program about some of the family/associates of these kidsin his 'Gangs' series so you get the picture. I doubt Vick's upbringing was so grotesquely dysfunctional, and again this doesn't excuse these kids from what they did to animals, it just explains it in some way.
I agree that "Taking pleasure in another living things pain to me means you are sick or evil and maybe both", but sometimes the sick can be healed. I've since got out of that line of work because I was bringing too much baggage home with me and the successes weren't compensating enough for the failures. I narrowly avoided burnout and maintained my Pollyanna-like outlook on life;)

Call me Socket

Munster Gal wrote: »

Perhaps I'm wrong but aren't some of Cesar Milan's dog ex-fighters?

I think they are....not sure though.

In my opinion, there's a far greater chance of success with kids and teenagers- though their nature or temperament is already... established say, their personality is still being formed by life experiences and surrounding influences.... An adult on the other hand, whose pleasure buttons are pressed by violence in whatever form, can manage their urges and desires with therapy and/or meds, and might even be able to adequately hide an evil streak....but it can't be got rid of.

That's just my take on it. I'd like to be wrong, but I guess I don't have the same Pollyanna-like outlook on life that you do Munster Gal- I envy you that;)