GPS speed limiters tested in england

Dankoozy

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/20/1317218&art_pos=2&art_pos=2

of course we all know its only a matter of time before it comes in here they stop giving you the ability to disable it.

i suppose this marks the beginning of the end for the era of the car and the freedom associated with it. next they will have 'pay as you drive' road charging as well. governments want to regulate every aspect of our lives for some reason and there is not much that can be done about it. motorists already fell out of favour with governments when the whole carbon emissions thing started up and i'd say that and safety concerns will be used to oppress motorists even more

hopefully there will always be countries where they don't bother with any of this invasive carry on but ireland tends to copy whatever england does, so if you dont like the idea of a little black box in your car that checks where you're going and reduces your speed accordingly now would be the time to start telling the muppets in the Dail and the EU you won't vote for them if they try to bring this in.

bladespin

Nice little earner for any electronic engineers out there, a bypass should be simple enough

Dankoozy

bladespin wrote: »

Nice little earner for any electronic engineers out there, a bypass should be simple enough

yea until they void your insurance for driving around with a disabled limiter, or the clueless obedient lad you overtake while he's doing the limit snitches on you. you're going to need a very elegant and undetectable way of disabling it and probably counterfeit a few tamper-proof boxes and seals as well

Capt'n Midnight

Dankoozy wrote: »

of course we all know its only a matter of time before it comes in here they stop giving you the ability to disable it.

i suppose this marks the beginning of the end for the era of the car and the freedom associated with it. next they will have 'pay as you drive' road charging as well.

Plans for pay as you drive aren't new in the UK, even been on telly.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/14/think_tank_recommends_satellite_road/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/4610901.stm

Every vehicle would have a black box to allow a satellite system to track their journey, with prices ranging from 2p per mile on quiet country roads to £1.34 on motorways at peak times.

In light of the number of people killed on our roads by driver error, please explain why you feel you should be above the law ?

In theory they could already get a lot of this data off your mobile phone so modifying the GPS might not be a solution anyway.

L1011

Turn off mobile phone, problem sorted.

GPS speed limiters would let you blast through the roadworks on the M50 during the daytime at 120km/h here - but would sharply brake you to 50 passing under where the toll was; until we have better GPS maps than the OSIs data has let alone what Navteq/TeleAtlas have it isn't possible in Ireland.

Dankoozy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Plans for pay as you drive aren't new in the UK, even been on telly.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/14/think_tank_recommends_satellite_road/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/4610901.stm


In light of the number of people killed on our roads by driver error, please explain why you feel you should be above the law ?

In theory they could already get a lot of this data off your mobile phone so modifying the GPS might not be a solution anyway.

everything in life carries a risk, people should be allowed to do what they want rather than have their freedom restricted in order to avoid a few more potential accidents. I don't want to give up control of my car to help some political agenda. i don't go around speeding and i'm still against the idea that someone other than me has direct control over my stuff.

some conspiracy nuts will let on that your phone can be switched on remotely but that is mostly a load of bollox. pay as you go road pricing is just another way of restricting peoples movement, another step towards authoritarianism. someone organising a protest? charge 10e a kilometer for the roads leading to it - say its standard procedure for when roads get congested.

i can turn my phone off, for now you can turn this device off which is grand but when this goes mainstream I doubt it will have an off button and if it does it will be put there to gain acceptance and later disabled.

no thx, no big brother box in my car, and get off my lawn.

cyclopath2001

Dankoozy wrote: »

i suppose this marks the beginning of the end for the era of the car and the freedom associated with it..

Unfortunately the freedom has been abused and voluntary compliance has proved insufficient.

Many drivers have loaded their GPS navigation systems with the locations of fixed speed traps and only observe the law when they feel that they're likely to be caught breaking it.

And, this is a valid and effective response to calls by 'IrishSpeedTraps' for speed controls on smaller roads.

maidhc

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Many drivers have loaded their GPS navigation systems with the locations of fixed speed traps and only observe the law when they feel that they're likely to be caught breaking it.

I find this website great for predicting where the speed traps are likely to be:
http://www.garda.ie/sez/Default.aspx

It is actually very accurate from my experience.

Dankoozy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Unfortunately the freedom has been abused and voluntary compliance has proved insufficient.

Many drivers have loaded their GPS navigation systems with the locations of fixed speed traps and only observe the law when they feel that they're likely to be caught breaking it.

And, this is a valid and effective response to calls by 'IrishSpeedTraps' for speed controls on smaller roads.

so you would rather that people didn't know where the speed traps were, tear on doing 160k through some little village and hopefully mow down a few school kids along the way rather than slow down?

maidhc

Dankoozy wrote: »

so you would rather that people didn't know where the speed traps were, tear on doing 160k through some little village and hopefully mow down a few school kids along the way rather than slow down?

Don't try arguing with him, seriously.

remotesensor

on the plus side......


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/technologynews/5352183/Sat-nav-system-could-break-down-within-a-year.html

Dankoozy

a massive solar flare might take them all out

off topic but they still launching new satellites, i went to see one being launched only 2 months ago

i suppose thats why the EU is pushing their own navigation system - in order to support Europe's upcoming speed limiting and road pricing scams

Holsten

Doubt it would ever happen, even if it did, find the thing and introduce it to Mr. Hammer.

AugustusMaximus

Its simple. Make your vote count. The majority of people don't want this sort of **** yet do nothing when the gov try to implement it.

This will make overtaking incredibly dangerous.

cyclopath2001

Dankoozy wrote: »

so you would rather that people didn't know where the speed traps were, tear on doing 160k through some little village and hopefully mow down a few school kids along the way rather than slow down?

You don't need to know where speed traps are to know the posted speed limit (read the road signs?) and to make a judgment of an appropriate speed within the posted limit.

jackofalltrades

cyclopath2001 wrote:

And, this is a valid and effective response to calls by 'IrishSpeedTraps' for speed controls on smaller roads.

It would be a totally ineffective response, people will still be able to speed on country roads where the limit is set way to high. That and a lot of country roads don't exists on Sat Nav systems.

Totally against this kind of "dumb" safety system, could seriously limit you're options in an emergency situation.

Capt'n Midnight

Dankoozy wrote: »

everything in life carries a risk, people should be allowed to do what they want rather than have their freedom restricted in order to avoid a few more potential accidents. I don't want to give up control of my car to help some political agenda. i don't go around speeding and i'm still against the idea that someone other than me has direct control over my stuff.
....
no thx, no big brother box in my car, and get off my lawn.

people should be allowed to do what they want PROVIDED it doesn't interfere with other people's right to do so,
only half the people in this country have a car
cars IIRC are the biggest cause of preventable death in 15-40 year olds
cars maim and kill a lot more people than most other forms of transport
we could have had fibre to every home in the country and a fully integrated transport system in the main cities for a fraction of what the NRA have spent on linear car parks
the M50 toll bridge will end up costing us a Billion

please read your post again , it is litterly me,me,my
it scares me a little to think my life may be in the hands of some one who appears to show little empathy for those who slow you down or threaten to do so.

/rant

Rowley Birkin QC

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

You don't need to know where speed traps are to know the posted speed limit (read the road signs?) and to make a judgment of an appropriate speed within the posted limit.

A lot easier for a cyclist to spot a red light than for a motorist to instantly know what the speed limit is in a given area.

cyclopath2001

bigkev49 wrote: »

A lot easier for a cyclist to spot a red light than for a motorist to instantly know what the speed limit is in a given area.

True and I deplore traffic light offences by anyone.

There's a difference between a GPS that tells you when you're breaking the speed limit and one that also tells you that you're in a speed trap area.

Do you seriously think that drivers don't deliberately break speed limits? That's why they use the files from 'IrishSpeedTraps', to reduce their chances of being caught. Their GPS's alreday have the speed limits in them.

CreepingDeath

bladespin wrote: »

Nice little earner for any electronic engineers out there, a bypass should be simple enough

You don't even need to go need a gps limiter to disable it.
Since GPS relies on radio signals at a precise frequency, you just need a radio transmitter to transmit white noise and jam that signal.

Deal Extreme already has them here...

GPS Blocker on deal extreme

fischer

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

True and I deplore traffic light offences by anyone.

There's a difference between a GPS that tells you when you're breaking the speed limit and one that also tells you that you're in a speed trap area.

Do you seriously think that drivers don't deliberately break speed limits? That's why they use the files from 'IrishSpeedTraps', to reduce their chances of being caught. Their GPS's alreday have the speed limits in them.

Cyclo - I trust you would support GPS tracking of all road users? To avoid a cyclist endangering a pedestrian or other cyclist by using a one way street in the incorrect direction? Once backed up by good quality GPS data, of course.

The hard part is how to apply a sanction to correct this kind of behaviour, given that cyclists don't yet carry an identifing mark or permit that allows them to ride. Any thoughts how we can address this?

Fischer.

Anan1

fischer wrote: »

Cyclo - I trust you would support GPS tracking of all road users? To avoid a cyclist endangering a pedestrian or other cyclist by using a one way street in the incorrect direction? Once backed up by good quality GPS data, of course.

The hard part is how to apply a sanction to correct this kind of behaviour, given that cyclists don't yet carry an identifing mark or permit that allows them to ride. Any thoughts how we can address this?

Fischer.

Do cyclists really injure or kill enough people to make this necessary?

L1011

Anan1 wrote: »

Do cyclists really injure or kill enough people to make this necessary?

They cause enough vehicle on vehicle collisions in cities due to inappropriate maneouvres causing evasive action.

Dankoozy

fischer wrote: »

Cyclo - I trust you would support GPS tracking of all road users? To avoid a cyclist endangering a pedestrian or other cyclist by using a one way street in the incorrect direction? Once backed up by good quality GPS data, of course.

The hard part is how to apply a sanction to correct this kind of behaviour, given that cyclists don't yet carry an identifing mark or permit that allows them to ride. Any thoughts how we can address this?

Fischer.

active RFID tags on all bicycles and a computer controlled brake system that slams on the brakes, preferably the front ones when you come tearing into a one way street. it can be connected to the traffic light system so if you come up to one doing 40k/h the instant you cross the line you will be thrown off your bike and land on the other side of the junction. sure if one less pedestrian is injured by these pesky cyclists it will be worth it!

and children who can't ride bikes yet need to be protected from these unscrupulous free-thinking mavericks with their pedal-powered transport. won't someone please think of the children? yeah, thats right. the ****ing children. think of them will ya!

Dankoozy

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

people should be allowed to do what they want PROVIDED it doesn't interfere with other people's right to do so,
only half the people in this country have a car
cars IIRC are the biggest cause of preventable death in 15-40 year olds
cars maim and kill a lot more people than most other forms of transport
we could have had fibre to every home in the country and a fully integrated transport system in the main cities for a fraction of what the NRA have spent on linear car parks
the M50 toll bridge will end up costing us a Billion

please read your post again , it is litterly me,me,my
it scares me a little to think my life may be in the hands of some one who appears to show little empathy for those who slow you down or threaten to do so.

/rant

cars should be made more accessible to people to solve this problem of only half the people having cars. they are a great mode of transport. the government has done all it can to price people off the roads in the name of protecting the environment, but in a few years most cars will be electric and it will no longer be a sin to drive a car. if you're that worried about getting knocked over, get off the freaking roads. roads are for cars and lorries not for kids to play football on.

nobody should be forced to have stuff installed in their own vehicle that takes control away from them or tracks them wherever they go.

what do you want fibre to every home for? maybe you run a few servers but you'll be one of the few, like myself. most people just use the internet for facebook and silly youtube videos. up and coming things like google docs waste huge amounts of bandwidth but still work fine with an ordinary ADSL-1 line. does it really matter that much if your facebook page loads half a second faster? i'd rather have a good road network, so i can go see all these people in real life rather than living a virtual life. i'd swear most of these dubs would choose to be plugged into the matrix and live in a virtual dreamworld if they could.

a 64k symmetric always-on line or even less would be enough to fill the communications needs for most people, but due to the wasteful nature of the internet they feel they need more. the answer isn't throwing more bandwidth at it but rather change the inefficiencies in the system. Web 2.0 is more bloated than ever and Web 3.0 will be much worse

Tea_Bag

sometimes breaking the speed limit is essential to pass slow vehicles safely, as stated above. thats a MAJOR point that cannot be ignored, no matter how safety concious you are.

a recent study on vehicle collisions showed that only around 5-10% of crashes were caused by exceeding the speed limit alone, furthermore, most excessive speeding is caused by drivers under the influence of drink or drugs.

maybe, just maybe, we should be investing in ways to stop people driving when they are over the limit, rather than just limiting us all.

besides, its usually SLOW drivers that cause the people who can speed to take chances after getting very annoyed and crash.

Lets get all old people off the streets and into nursing homes, where they belong



//e searching for the reference to the study, will edit when i find it.

L1011

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

cars IIRC are the biggest cause of preventable death in 15-40 year olds

I think that might actually be suicide... getting less serious/morbid

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

what the NRA have spent on linear car parks

Freeing up traffic and returning towns to the townspeople by REMVOING "linear car parks" in Kinnegad, Kilbeggan, Balbriggan, Longford, Cashel, Cahir, Gorey, Arklow, etc, etc is what the NRA has spent most of its billions on. One undercapacity scheme being rectified (the M50, not all of which was built under the NRA) and one which I'm unsure of their hand in (Dunkettle/Cork SRR) which is yet to be fixed does not suggest that anything approaching a majority let alone a sizeable amount of the NRAs funding has been producing "linear car parks".

Ask the residents of Enfield, Edgesworthstown, Moate, etc if they think the money spent on their bypasses would have been better spent on a local bus system. I don't think any of them are going to agree.

fischer

Anan1 wrote: »

Do cyclists really injure or kill enough people to make this necessary?

No, not even close.

But Cyclo has always made the point that law enforcement has a social or fairness aspect to it. That even when something isn't dangerous, its unlawfulness makes it worthy of punishment. Something about noise and intimidation, as far as I remember.

All that said, I don't believe the level of road deaths in Ireland warrants this kind of overt enforcement either. The funds associated with a GPS tracking system could save more lives if used to vacinate against cervical cancer, upgrade n 'bad' junction or pay for actual traffic policing.

GPS tracking of citizens is something we'll have soon enough whether I like it or not. But it has very little to do with saving lives.

Fischer.

xt40

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

True and I deplore traffic light offences by anyone.

There's a difference between a GPS that tells you when you're breaking the speed limit and one that also tells you that you're in a speed trap area.

Do you seriously think that drivers don't deliberately break speed limits? That's why they use the files from 'IrishSpeedTraps', to reduce their chances of being caught. Their GPS's alreday have the speed limits in them.

fyi even the guards have come out and said that fixed camera locations should be published so you can cease banging that particular drum. as for limits, if the gobshytes in the council who set them were consistent and rational and the guards put as much effort into promoting safe driving on country roads as they do into shooting fish in a barrel on motorways, people would have more respect for the limits/laws.

Tea_Bag

Speed camera's arent meant to catch people out, but to get them to slow down at particularly dangerous places.

Hagar

Tea_Bag wrote: »

Speed camera's arent meant to catch people out, but to get them to slow down at particularly dangerous places.

God bless your innocence.

Johnny Utah

Tea_Bag wrote: »

Speed camera's arent meant to catch people out, but to get them to slow down at particularly dangerous places.

Exactly; like the Stillorglin dual cariiageway, the Portlaoise bypass, Limerick bypass, etc... :pac:

galwaytt

Dankoozy wrote: »

.....a 64k symmetric always-on line or even less would be enough to fill the communications needs for most people,

LOL...not if you want to read boards.ie it won't.

Dankoozy

galwaytt wrote: »

LOL...not if you want to read boards.ie it won't.

http://m.boards.ie

back in the good old days we had usenet. which is exactly the same as this but without all the fluff.. and the ads and works on a 0bps modem.

i find myself using m.boards the od time from my 'netbook' because this 'netbook' piece of crap isn't really that great for cutting through the bloat of modern web design.

galwaytt

Tea_Bag wrote: »

Speed camera's arent meant to catch people out, but to get them to slow down at particularly dangerous places.

rubbish.

And that from the Garda who tested me for my test.

Dankoozy

true

cameras are a nice little earner. i'd say if such a system ever came in over here it would not limit the speed at all, just dish out fines if you go over

UhOh

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Its simple. Make your vote count. The majority of people don't want this sort of **** yet do nothing when the gov try to implement it.

if this ever does come about it doesnt matter whta shower of cretins we've voted in, they'll all try & pass this s**t....personally I think this is a long way off so I wont be too worried just yet

Dankoozy wrote: »

a massive solar flare might take them all out

unfortunately a big enough solar flare will dissolve the ozone layer in an instant aswell

galwaytt

Dankoozy wrote: »

http://m.boards.ie

back in the good old days we had usenet. which is exactly the same as this but without all the fluff.. and the ads and works on a 0bps modem.

i find myself using m.boards the od time from my 'netbook' because this 'netbook' piece of crap isn't really that great for cutting through the bloat of modern web design.

..fair enough, but changing to a budget PC to avoid getting broadband is mental.

Back on Topic, though: hasn't this been done already ? For a start, there's thousands of fleet vehicles on the road that have them already. And, didn't Hibernian have a 'youth' insurance scheme using something similar, a few years ago ?

Besides - any technology based answer is doomed to failure. Especially so in this country.

For a start, there's the 'net, and counter-technology. Israel in particular, is a good source for that kind of thing..........;) ....

Then there's good 'ol ingenuity.

And old cars. Anything with a throttle cable won't be able to do it. (mechanical)

oooh, I like that - maybe my old cars will go up in value so

Dankoozy

UhOh wrote: »

if this ever does come about it doesnt matter whta shower of cretins we've voted in, they'll all try & pass this s**t....personally I think this is a long way off so I wont be too worried just yet




unfortunately a big enough solar flare will dissolve the ozone layer in an instant aswell

great, that way i won't have to be worrying about damaging the ozone layer while tearing around in a 5 litre convertible. wearing factor billion sunblock

it doesnt matter who you vote for its always the gubberment that gets in.
but rly why would they spend money on something that gets rid of their juicy speeding fine revenue? they make far too much money from people speeding, and lets keep it that way

UhOh

Dankoozy wrote: »

why would they spend money on something that gets rid of their juicy speeding fine revenue? they make far too much money from people speeding, and lets keep it that way

indeed

Dankoozy

galwaytt wrote: »

..fair enough, but changing to a budget PC to avoid getting broadband is mental.

i have a proper pc, and broadband out here in the sticks. its good enough. i'd like more upload bandwidth for my server and other stuff but i'm not complaining

i bought this 'netbook' to replace my laptop. but it doesn't have the oomph required to chew through what modern websites throw at it. for anything that uses a client & isnt web based, tis grand

galwaytt

I have synchronous nominal 1mB in the sticks.

Works for me!

Dankoozy

galwaytt wrote: »

I have synchronous nominal 1mB in the sticks.

Works for me!

lucky you

i'd kill a donkey for 1mb both ways