Rules Q's

Trampas

We were in the pub the other day after been out that day and we had a discussion about a grounding your club in a hazard.

We all know that you can't ground your club in the hazard but the discussion is what is classified as grounding.

Is touching the grass means as grounding?

How does it relate to area when the grass is short like 1 cut of rough and then it if is much heavier rough.

If you can't touch it in short grass but you can in high rough how is it different.

Sometimes you see big chunks or grass like I links where you can sitting a couple of inches about the grounds. Can you touch the grass right behind the ball?

Is the rule open to how you interpret the word grounding?

It turned into an interesting conversation.

stevire

Trampas wrote: »

We were in the pub the other day after been out that day and we had a discussion about a grounding your club in a hazard.

We all know that you can't ground your club in the hazard but the discussion is what is classified as grounding.

Is touching the grass means as grounding?

How does it relate to area when the grass is short like 1 cut of rough and then it if is much heavier rough.

If you can't touch it in short grass but you can in high rough how is it different.

Sometimes you see big chunks or grass like I links where you can sitting a couple of inches about the grounds. Can you touch the grass right behind the ball?

Is the rule open to how you interpret the word grounding?

It turned into an interesting conversation.

I thought once you address the ball and the club touches the ground thats considered grounding. If you touch the grass in such a way to improve your lie then I'd see that as a foul. But otherwise I wouldn't see touching the grass as grounding the club...

A quote from an article:
"Remember, when the player's ball is in a hazard, he need only take his stance to satisfy the definition of "addressing the ball."

Water hazards (and bunkers) are especially tricky on matters concerning grounding your club. If your ball lies on a bridge spanning a water hazard, you may ground your club on the bridge. If your ball touches a line defining the margin of the water hazard, you are permitted to ground your club outside the hazard."

Source

Trampas

stevire wrote: »

I thought once you address the ball and the club touches the ground thats considered grounding. If you touch the grass in such a way to improve your lie then I'd see that as a foul. But otherwise I wouldn't see touching the grass as grounding the club...

A quote from an article:
"Remember, when the player's ball is in a hazard, he need only take his stance to satisfy the definition of "addressing the ball."

Water hazards (and bunkers) are especially tricky on matters concerning grounding your club. If your ball lies on a bridge spanning a water hazard, you may ground your club on the bridge. If your ball touches a line defining the margin of the water hazard, you are permitted to ground your club outside the hazard."

Source

You can't touch the ground anytime you are in a hazard even if you are not addressing the ball

PhilipMarlowe

Just to confuse the issue, you can touch the ground with your club in a hazard if it is to prevent you from falling over (decision 13-4/3.5)

Say you are inside the line of a water hazard, but on a grass margin. You can touch the grass but really "grounding" the club means that the weight of the club is supported by the ground.

Decision 13-4/8
Q. - If a player’s ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b?
A. - When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded). (New)

GreeBo

Licksy wrote: »

Just to confuse the issue, you can touch the ground with your club in a hazard if it is to prevent you from falling over (decision 13-4/3.5)

You can also leave your other clubs in the hazard and this is not considered grounding them.

Licksy wrote: »

Say you are inside the line of a water hazard, but on a grass margin. You can touch the grass but really "grounding" the club means that the weight of the club is supported by the ground.

Decision 13-4/8
Q. - If a player’s ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b?
A. - When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded). (New)

Interesting, as I believe if you tip the water (in a water hazard) then thats a penalty.

PhilipMarlowe

Yeah...
http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/rules/rules_2008_2011.html
Then click video clips along the top menu. There's a clip of Faldo playing a shot out of a water hazard in Switzerland and he touches the water in his backswing which is a (very harsh) 2 stroke penalty.

Nemesis

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_3_53/ai_84351263/

Throughout his career, Jack Nicklaus has never grounded his club at address. Rather, he hovers the clubhead above the grass to preclude a violation of Rule 18-2b covering "Ball moving after address." (One of the requirements of addressing the ball, except in a bunker or water hazard, is grounding the club.)

But did Nicklaus' habit save him in water hazards, where the player is not permitted to touch the ground or the water within the hazard (Rule 13-4)? What if Nicklaus brushed the tops of tall grass within the water hazard while hovering the clubhead, or while taking a practice swing? The answer is found in Decision 13-4/4: No penalty, "provided the player did not improve his lie or test the condition of the hazard."

Another hypothetical situation: Suppose Nicklaus' ball were in the water hazard, and he took his stance and hovered his club. What if the ball then moved? He would be penalized one stroke, and he would be required to replace the ball. Remember, when the player's ball is in a hazard, he need only take his stance to satisfy the definition of "addressing the ball."

Water hazards (and bunkers) are especially tricky on matters concerning grounding your club. If your ball lies on a bridge spanning a water hazard, you may ground your club on the bridge. If your ball touches a line defining the margin of the water hazard, you are permitted to ground your club outside the hazard

ShriekingSheet

Licksy wrote: »

Yeah...
http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/rules/rules_2008_2011.html
Then click video clips along the top menu. There's a clip of Faldo playing a shot out of a water hazard in Switzerland and he touches the water in his backswing which is a (very harsh) 2 stroke penalty.

I remember that. Wasn't it a tv commentator or spectator called him on that after seeing a slow motion replay? As I recall, Faldo initially refused to admit he touched the water until he was shown the replay.

Not sure if it was Faldo but I also remember someone playing a shot off their knees from under a tree. The caddy put a towel on the muck so as not to dirty his trousers. Later, someone watching on tv called up and pointed out that he improved his stance and the player was penalised.

PhilipMarlowe

That was The Walrus, Craig Stadler. Had to kneel to play a shot from under pine trees and didn't want to slobber his trousers from the resin on the ground! He played the next day too I think and was pulled on it because someone spotted it on tv so he signed for a wrong score the previous day and was DQ'ed.

stevire

Nemesis wrote: »

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_3_53/ai_84351263/

Throughout his career, Jack Nicklaus has never grounded his club at address. Rather, he hovers the clubhead above the grass to preclude a violation of Rule 18-2b covering "Ball moving after address." (One of the requirements of addressing the ball, except in a bunker or water hazard, is grounding the club.)

But did Nicklaus' habit save him in water hazards, where the player is not permitted to touch the ground or the water within the hazard (Rule 13-4)? What if Nicklaus brushed the tops of tall grass within the water hazard while hovering the clubhead, or while taking a practice swing? The answer is found in Decision 13-4/4: No penalty, "provided the player did not improve his lie or test the condition of the hazard."

Another hypothetical situation: Suppose Nicklaus' ball were in the water hazard, and he took his stance and hovered his club. What if the ball then moved? He would be penalized one stroke, and he would be required to replace the ball. Remember, when the player's ball is in a hazard, he need only take his stance to satisfy the definition of "addressing the ball."

Water hazards (and bunkers) are especially tricky on matters concerning grounding your club. If your ball lies on a bridge spanning a water hazard, you may ground your club on the bridge. If your ball touches a line defining the margin of the water hazard, you are permitted to ground your club outside the hazard

Thats what i said??

Nemesis

Oops sorry,
Didn't see your neat link.

I'm sure we have all helped with the original question though.

Trampas

Cheers for the replies.

Golf rules can be an interesting topic.

soundsham

Not sure if it was Faldo but I also remember someone playing a shot off their knees from under a tree. The caddy put a towel on the muck so as not to dirty his trousers. Later, someone watching on tv called up and pointed out that he improved his stance and the player was penalised.[/quote]

as stated it was stadler and the penalty was for building a stance on the original question the grass in a hazard is not considered the ground,

Nemesis

Was 'The Walrus' Craig Stadler back in 1987 kneeling under a tree.

He chopped that tree down in 1995 when it got diseased.:D