Planning Probems

TommyT

Six months ago we bought (subject to planning) an old 3 roomed cottage that we hoped to extend and renovate. Originally we, or rather our architect wanted to turn it into a dormer type bungalow. He said it was our best chance of getting planning in this particular area, so grudgingly we went with it.
To cut a long story short we are now at the "further information" point in the planning application. The planning officer has asked for new drawings that are single story and that keep the outline of the old cottage. We have employed a new architect after speaking to a few and doing lots of research and we are really happy with what he has drawn for us. He has given us a contemporary extention with a flat roof joined to the old cottage by a glass corridor.
Instead of submitting the new drawings we asked the planning officer to take a look at them first and give us an opinion so we dont get our hopes up again and you guessed it, she is not happy. She will not allow us to have a flat roof. Actually it was going to be a green roof, but she seemed confused as to what this was. What do we have to do to get the house we want? We don`t qualify for local needs for the particular area that we want to live in, so this is our only chance of building in this area. It seems that no matter what we do it is unacceptable, even though there are houses with flat roofs in the area and even shock horror dormer bungalows it seems we are allowed neither.

muffler

You can ask for a meeting again with the planner. Take a few pics of other houses in the area (which you described) and argue the point that a precedent has been set for this particular type of design.

Most planning authorities have design guides incorporated into their County Development Plans - have a look at that - it may possibly be available online.

look up their online planning system for applications approved in that area and make note of what they have permitted - gives you more leverage with an argument for a particular design.

Get your local councillor involved. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesnt.

Talk it over with your architect and dont be afraid to express your displeasure that he/she has submitted a design that is not acceptable to the planners.

My 2c worth.

TommyT

I`ve been talking to a local councillor, while he was calling round looking for our vote. He has offered to help but will he carry any weight with the planners? What can your local councillor do in a situation like this?

liam300tm

very little, planning departs are a rule to them selfs, fulfill all their demands and cross the fingers, also skin the architect, he or she should defo have known what is accectable to planners in your area, submitting somethinf off standard without a pre planning meeting is only wasting your time and puts a big red flag on your case indefinatly.

pseudo-tech

liam300tm wrote: »

very little, planning departs are a rule to them selfs, fulfill all their demands and cross the fingers, also skin the architect, he or she should defo have known what is accectable to planners in your area, submitting somethinf off standard without a pre planning meeting is only wasting your time and puts a big red flag on your case indefinatly.

Not necessarily!!

An agent with a good relationship with the local authority will normally be aware of the stance that they will take. However, some local authorities have planners coming and going like there is no tomorrow, with each one bringing their bag of subjectivity to the table. Very difficult to allow for this.

No6

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Not necessarily!!

An agent with a good relationship with the local authority will normally be aware of the stance that they will take. However, some local authorities have planners coming and going like there is no tomorrow, with each one bringing their bag of subjectivity to the table. Very difficult to allow for this.

I agree pseudo and just when you are getting to grips with the individual they move on and another planner takes over with a whole new set of chips on their shoulder!!!

mal_1

In relation to meeting with planners in a per planning meeting, it would be prudent to make a detailed minute of the meeting noting;

The people involved, especially the senior who will be referred to by a junior planner who gets moved around
all the agreements gained,
drawings and images shown and required changes, etc

Submit this as part of the application pack at the beginning, hence it is on the file, and which leaves the planners with less wriggle room.

pseudo-tech

mal_1 wrote: »

In relation to meeting with planners in a per planning meeting, it would be prudent to make a detailed minute of the meeting noting;

The people involved, especially the senior who will be referred to by a junior planner who gets moved around
all the agreements gained,
drawings and images shown and required changes, etc

Submit this as part of the application pack at the beginning, hence it is on the file, and which leaves the planners with less wriggle room.

Good point mal_1. However, i would keep your record of the meeting informal to ensure you protect any relationship that may be developing with the Planner. If you hit them full on, the next meeting will be less helpful.

I will normally note in a letter how i followed so and so's (planners) guidance and that their comments were helpful in the preparation of the application. I will give that planner some ownership of the file before them!

Builderfromhell

I can't see how the architect is at fault here.
He or she has designed a house which fulfills your needs.
It has been my experience that it is impossible to know how the planners will react. You may have got permsion or your Architect could have designed and submitted a proposal which keeps the planners happy but does not fulfill your needs. You would then never know if you would have got planning for the desired house or not.

Poor Uncle Tom

Or as we find out all the time, you could get planning permission today for exactly what you want and you won't get planning for the very same building in 6 months time.

Inconsistency in the planners decision making process can be very expensive on a client and waste a lot of an agents time.

Recent experience: Planning refusal on a site, client comes to me to set about a new application on the same site, met up with the director of services, he makes a few minor alterations to the positioning on site and superficial changes to the design and says re-apply, I ask why these couldn't have been dealt with by condition of FI by the last agent. I was told, look I'm feeling generous, I'll give the permission this time, anyway what does a second application cost €65..?

I couldn't believe the attitude, but, he knows better now..:cool:

pseudo-tech

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Or as we find out all the time, you could get planning permission today for exactly what you want and you won't get planning for the very same building in 6 months time.

Inconsistency in the planners decision making process can be very expensive on a client and waste a lot of an agents time.

Recent experience: Planning refusal on a site, client comes to me to set about a new application on the same site, met up with the director of services, he makes a few minor alterations to the positioning on site and superficial changes to the design and says re-apply, I ask why these couldn't have been dealt with by condition of FI by the last agent. I was told, look I'm feeling generous, I'll give the permission this time, anyway what does a second application cost €65..?

I couldn't believe the attitude, but, he knows better now..:cool:

Unacceptable really from our civil service. The land of the living dead!!

Currahee01

OP,

I bought a 100yr old two up two down cottage last year for refurbishment and like yourself wanted to add a contemporary flat roof extension. The best way to tackle this is to sit down with the planner and explain with your architect the principles and justification of the design. For want of a better description, try and 'sell' your idea. I brought the Cork Rural Design Guidelines with me and showed the planner some examples of modern rural design. Thankfully she was open to our proposal and we received our planning in 6 weeks. As mentioned above also bring some examples of the local housing designs.
In terms of your current application why not complete the FI as per original design, obtain a grant and maybe re-apply with your new application after having had a pre planning meeting.