Debt Collector Practices?

trainlad

Hi Folks

I am using a different username for this one as I dont want to be identified at all. I closed down a company that I owned last year after having ensured that all debts etc were paid and nothing was outstanding for this company.

I have since taken a job in another company in a related field and everything was working well until recently when I started getting strange emails from a crowd claiming to want to work directly with me and demanding my contact details and phone number etc. The tone of the emails from the word go had me suspicious as to their intentions, not to mention the fact that the "company" was not registered with the CRO nor was anyone able to tell me anything about them.

Recently they admitted that they were in fact a debt collectors agency seeking payment for a debt that they claimed was owed by me and not by the closed down company. They have so far refused to show me any proof of the debt involved yet have given a deadline for the payment of a specified sum of money that I have checked and confirmed does not match up with any invoice received. They named a supplier that we have had problems with in the past but who has been completely paid and is owed nothing by the closed company.

They have been reminded that the company was closed down last year with no debts but have said its not the company they are coming after but rather me, I thought that a limited company gave directors limited liability to prevent this sort of thing happening?

The "Debt collection" agency has refused to identify themselves saying "you will find out who we are when we turn up on your doorstep to remove your assets". They have also stated that if the debt is not paid by the deadline interest of over 30% a DAY would be added onto the debt (of over 10,000% a year ). I realise that these are scare tactics to try to get me to pay up sooner rather than later.

What should I do about them, I cannot send a solicitors letter as I dont know the name of the Debt Collecting Agency involved or their contact details. I am slighly concerned about the tone of the email containing the "turning up at the doorstep" comment which I feel is a veiled threat considering the way it was written.

What are my rights regarding this, they do not know where I live despite the comment about turning up on my doorstep. They also do not have my phone number (cancelled it when the company was closed down). If by some chance they turn up at my new workplace and follow me home can they then enter my property? (The property has never had any connection with the business and was one I moved into after closing down the business)

Can they remove items belonging to me that are parked on the road and not on the driveway? (I live in a housing estate).

I know from other posts here not to let them get in the door but what other advise do people have for me regarding this shower of chancers to put it mildly?

John Doe

FruitLover

Very shady. I'd recommend simply ignoring them. Can you post up the headers of the email (omitting your own details)?

niceirishfella

As long as they are not the Viper, tell them to Fuk off.

trainlad

FruitLover wrote: »

Very shady. I'd recommend simply ignoring them. Can you post up the headers of the email (omitting your own details)?

They are using Gmail so I dont think that will help

trainlad

niceirishfella wrote: »

As long as they are not the Viper, tell them to Fuk off.

Thats handy advise but I guess my point was more are they not required to identify themselves, give evidence of the alleged debt owed etc etc?

I have told them that the amount claimed is not owed by me so technically the debt is now in dispute so they cannot proceed any further from what I read elsewhere and they have to go back to the claimant and tell him that or have I got that wrong?

TheBeach

Maybe you could make contact with the company that they said had passed 'the debt' on to them? Cut out the (v.dodgy) middleman.

Horse 24

Look, these guys are clearly not a legitimate debt collection agency. If your limited company has been wound up this debt cannot not be pursued unless you gave a guarantee.

You have very limited options, I suggest the following.

Ignore the phone calls and emails from now on, do not engage at all. In all likelyhood they will go away.

If they turn up at your door all they will do is demand payment, they will not take anything belonging to you as it would be theft and they will not want the attention of the gardai nor will they assault you.

If you are really worried contact your local garda and advise them whats happening if they turn up at your house or place of business call the gardi immediately and do not engage with them at all.

I dont think you will have to worry as most of these crowds are chancers but if they sense you are cracking they will continue to pursue you.

Do you know who they are collecting the debt for? If you do report this to the gardi they will likely contact that person in respect of the harassment.

This is happening wholesale throughout the construction industry at the moment.

Best of luck.

trainlad

Horse 24 wrote: »

Look, these guys are clearly not a legitimate debt collection agency. If your limited company has been wound up this debt cannot not be pursued unless you gave a guarantee.

Thats what I was thinking, guess I just wanted the reassurance of someone else confirming what I already knew. Thanks for that, now for a relaxing cup of tea to calm my not so shattered nerves.

niceirishfella

Horse 24 wrote: »

Ignore the phone calls and emails from now on, do not engage at all. In all likelyhood they will go away.

If they turn up at your door all they will do is demand payment, they will not take anything belonging to you as it would be theft and they will not want the attention of the gardai nor will they assault you.

If you are really worried contact your local garda and advise them whats happening if they turn up at your house or place of business call the gardi immediately and do not engage with them at all.

I've been down this road over a small debt.
I told them to Fuk off or i'll contact the guards......never heard from them again.:rolleyes:
These Spiv's operate through intimidation and if you show you're not going to be intimidated, you'll be in charge of the situation.

fraggle79

I have had a similar experience wherby I was getting phonecalls twice a day for 6 months along with letters. The letters where totally fake. I went to a solicitor to about it and the Gardai. If they contact you again I would go to the Gardai.

This post raises the very important thing that because we are in a recession people think that they have the right to extort money from people through various different means...........Just remember never give out your bank details and never respond to emails requesting them!!!

Lplated

You have said that you are sure that all debts were paid - if that is the case (NOTE - advice would differ if there is even a doubt) - then first, on their next communication, inform them their approaches have been handed on to your solicitor and through the solicitor to the gardai, and second, request that all future communication be through registered post.

Should there be any future communication, take it to your solicitor, unless it has some form of threatening tone to it, in which case, take it to the gardai as well. They'll be able to track the gmail anyway.

Most obviously - do not pay money to anybody. If there is a debt owed, you should be furnished with the invoice etc.. giving rise to it, and you should be easily able to establish whether or not you have paid it.

Darragh29

My advice is to go down to the Garda station and make a formal written complaint alleging an attempt at extortion. That should at least identify these people, it sounds like someone is trying to intimidate money out of you, if they can't even explain to you why they think you owe money, then I'd move automatically to view it as an extortion attempt.

patftrears

In Ireland the only person who can seize assets is the county sheriff.
He will only be able to do so after going through the courts.

Debt collectors cannot do anything! they will call you and send letter, may even turn up on your door (if they do call guards, criminal trespass).
They have zero powers.

EKRIUQ

patftrears wrote: »

In Ireland the only person who can seize assets is the county sheriff.
He will only be able to do so after going through the courts.

It's really only the Revenue Sheriffs that can seize assets and then it's only from business’s, County sheriffs very rarely ever size assets as the cost of trying to sell the assets would far out weight the asset except in the case of a home repossession.

Cringer

Crikey, sorry to hear that Trainlad.

It suddenly dawned on me reading this thread - is there a list out there, readily available to the public, of recently wound up businesses?

it wouldnt take too much effort for a scammer to find out what industry you were in and from that who your potential supplers were etc. and then open a gmail account and pretend to be debt collector agents... shudder. What a dreadful thought.


There's some very good advice here. I'm curious though, how did they get hold of your email address? Is it your new work address too?

codec

Also involved in small company that failed. Ended up owing an invoice discounting company a relatively small amount and agreed to pay over 12 months. Half way through they decided they wanted it all because they saw my pic in the paper?? I hadnt got the balance so they got a judgement really quickly and then proceeded to a judgement mortgage where the cost of legals were 3 times the cost of debt. They wanted to sell our house but thankfully that didnt happen and I am out of that situation now.
Out of curiousity I have looked at these companies to find they are not regulated, they have multiple hidden charges, overcharge interest but seem to be able to get away with it. Please anybody thinking of using this method of finance think again. They are bullies, thugs in suits. They dont care about small business but they advertise they are the saviours!!
See the Federation of Small Business forum in the uk on factoring and you will see what I mean........all horror stories.
I always tell people it is a last resort but read the agreement please. Anybody else have bad experiences?

mick.fr

codec wrote: »

Also involved in small company that failed. Ended up owing an invoice discounting company a relatively small amount and agreed to pay over 12 months. Half way through they decided they wanted it all because they saw my pic in the paper?? I hadnt got the balance so they got a judgement really quickly and then proceeded to a judgement mortgage where the cost of legals were 3 times the cost of debt. They wanted to sell our house but thankfully that didnt happen and I am out of that situation now.
Out of curiousity I have looked at these companies to find they are not regulated, they have multiple hidden charges, overcharge interest but seem to be able to get away with it. Please anybody thinking of using this method of finance think again. They are bullies, thugs in suits. They dont care about small business but they advertise they are the saviours!!
See the Federation of Small Business forum in the uk on factoring and you will see what I mean........all horror stories.
I always tell people it is a last resort but read the agreement please. Anybody else have bad experiences?

Company is BBFS isn't?
They harassed me last year after I contacted them to get invoice factoring.
I asked advice from my accountant and he told to stay away from them. I checked their conditions, they wanted to take an obligation in my company and on my personnal assets plus their fees were bloody high.

I got sorted on my own by giving 4% discount to customers to get better cash flow, if they were to pay within 2 weeks. which they all did.

HTH

codec

Wise move Mick.fr ......I wish we had been that sensible. The company is CID. They advertise in the Bu. post every week. They have a 2 prong attack on small business. One section is suing owners for everything they have and the other carries on the normal business of charging firms 30% plus bringing them to their knees.
Its a win win situation!

trainlad

Just a small update the "chancers" emailed me again as the deadline had passed and have named locations that I have not lived at for several years and that they will go there to see if anyone knows me. How they got the addresses I dont know but frankly dont care as they would only be dead ends for them. They have said that they would add any expenses incurred to the charges they would be sending me (as if 30+% interest a day wouldnt cover them already LOL).

I have already told them that I have been in contact with the Gardai (I havent as theres bugger all info to go on so far and there hasnt been a direct threat nor do I have any contact details to direct the gardai to).

The company who is alleged to be owed the money wont answer the phones nor are they operating from the premises that they were in originally so contact details for them are gone too by the looks of things.

I feel a lot more comfortable now that I can laugh at their face when, if, they ever show up at the door. Ok I am now a little paranoid about people following me around as a result of this but at the end of the day its not stressing me out any more because the more I reread their emails and the more emails I get from them I know that they are just chancing their arms and havent a clue of the legislation around debt collecting.

I am half of the mind to email them to remind them of their obligations as a "debt collection agency" but I dont know half of the obligations they operate under. Some I do know of from reading here and that are related to this case and things in general would be:

1) The closure of the business means that any outstanding debts die with the business and cannot be applied to the departing directors due to limited liability laws surrrounding business (Unless the directors can be proven to have acted fraudlently or they gave a personal gurantee).

2) Credit ratings cannot be affected as they are not a financial instution.

3) They cannot seize assets to repay the debt (only a Sheriff can)

4) They must identify themselves.

5) They must identify the source of the Debt and the Invoice covering the Debt.

6) They cannot tell third parties that they are chasing a debt

7) They cannot use threatening or intimidating behaviour to recover a debt.

8) They cannot enter private property in order to seize assets (See point 4 above)

Thats all I can come across for the moment, are there any others that I havent thought of or that would apply in general?

John

Darragh29

If you have any contact details for these folks OP, particularly if you have an address for them, feel free to PM details onto me and I'll get this sorted out for you good and proper.

DubTony

Darragh29 wrote: »

If you have any contact details for these folks OP, particularly if you have an address for them, feel free to PM details onto me and I'll get this sorted out for you good and proper.

Now that's what an online community should be all about. Good man Darragh.