Retention permission for 7 year old extension?

Builderfromhell

I'm in County Limerick and am unsure if a 7 year old house extension requires retention planning permission or is it exempt due to the fact that it has been there for 7 years.

The development was granted permission in May 2002.

Any advice appreciated.

sydthebeat

the seven year time period is simply the statute of limitations on enforcement orders...

it most certainly do not mean that an unauthorised development becomes exempt from planning.

unauthorised before is the same as unauthorised after.... it just means that an enforcement order cannot be made on teh building.. it leaves the building in a quasi-limbo state.....

if the extension was not exempt when it was constructed, then it needs retention permission....

Builderfromhell

Thanks for that Sydthebeat.
A mine of information as usual.

sydthebeat

just to note... i have heard of rumblings that there are plans afoot to remove this seven year statute of limitations on enforcement orders....

that will make life very interesting....

pseudo-tech

Just another point. If you have an unauthorised structure, you will not be allowed to make a planning application for any other modifications unless the unauthorised structure is regularised. This will present a problem if you wish to sell the house!!

sinnerboy

If a property is destroyed by fire or other catastrophe - you would not have permission to re build the un authorized part

If a property is acquired by a local authority compulsory purchase - the un authorized part will be zero valued

If a former local authority house is sold back to that local authority - quite often the un authorised development will be removed before the authority takes it back . I have seen a lot of front porch extensions removed around Northside Dublin "Corpo" estates for example .

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

just to note... i have heard of rumblings that there are plans afoot to remove this seven year statute of limitations on enforcement orders....

Yeah, I believe that is in the offing.

liam300tm

If an enforcement order was not issued in the first 7 years of its existance your on a winner. default planning.....

archtech

liam300tm wrote: »

If an enforcement order was not issued in the first 7 years of its existance your on a winner. default planning.....

Not quiet. its not default planning. the planning authority can still impose conditions and restrictions on the development, they just can't issue enforcement procedures against you. However I think you will find that they can issue enforcement procedures against you for non-compliance with any conditions associated with the retention application.

sinnerboy

liam300tm wrote: »

If an enforcement order was not issued in the first 7 years of its existance your on a winner. default planning.....

Absolutely untrue . Please re read the thread from the start .

liam300tm

<p>I have first hand expierience of this sinnerboy in wicklow.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>after you can establish that your land has had an unauthorised development on it 7 years and a day.... your ok. (once no action has been started by a co co ib those years)</p>

edit, conditions were slapped on the development with the final grant.

sydthebeat

liam300tm wrote: »

If an enforcement order was not issued in the first 7 years of its existance your on a winner. default planning.....

look Liam, you are incorrect in what you are saying here.

in your last post you say that conditions were added to your final grant, so are you saying that you applied for retention permission for the unauthorised development??

therefore, you didnt get permission by default.

toodelies

Hi there,

was wondering, did you obtain planning for the extension and built out in contravention of the plans lodged with the application for permission and therefore now require retention or did you just get no permission at all?

If you obtained permission and didn't build to the specs the time line is 12 years - 5 years to the expiry of the permission and 7 years thereafter for enforcement. if you did not obtain any permission then it is 7 years from the date of development. the difficulty being though that if you did do not obtain retention you will find it very difficult in this climate to sell your house as no bank will accept an impunged title these days... (i.e. purchasers solicitor will have to qualify the title to the purchasers lending institution as the planning history is not perfect, bank will say that they are not advancing funds as the title is not perfect (this has happened to me alot recently))

pseudo-tech

Liam, whats been said above by the others (sydthebeat, sinnerboy and archtech) is correct.

liam300tm

Yes rention was applied for under advice from my solisitor, to copper fasten the deal, co co chanced their arm looking for enforcement after the 7year itch but backed down once shown proof of land use,

basically a blind eye was turned by the coco, retention was sought while the iron was hot and approved for a development that would never have been granted in the area.

No6

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I'm in County Limerick and am unsure if a 7 year old house extension requires retention planning permission or is it exempt due to the fact that it has been there for 7 years.

The development was granted permission in May 2002.

Any advice appreciated.

It could only be exempt if it complied with the exempted development standards in force at the time it was built and was built after the original development was completed. If it dosnt comply with the exempted development standards then it does require retention no matter how long its there for.

sinnerboy

liam300tm wrote: »

Yes rention was applied for under advice from my solisitor, to copper fasten the deal, co co chanced their arm looking for enforcement after the 7year itch but backed down once shown proof of land use,

basically a blind eye was turned by the coco, retention was sought while the iron was hot and approved for a development that would never have been granted in the area.

You have quite the loose tongue Liam. Others reading would be very foolish to follow your "example"

.

sinnerboy

No6 wrote: »

It could only be exempt if it complied with the exempted development standards in force at the time it was built and was built after the original development was completed. If it dosnt comply with the exempted development standards then it does require retention no matter how long its there for.

Agreed .

sydthebeat

liam300tm wrote: »

Yes rention was applied for under advice from my solisitor, to copper fasten the deal, co co chanced their arm looking for enforcement after the 7year itch but backed down once shown proof of land use,

basically a blind eye was turned by the coco, retention was sought while the iron was hot and approved for a development that would never have been granted in the area.

your colourful statements holds no weight.

The only facts you have stated:

1. you had an unauthoried development
2. you were subject to enforcement action
3. your solicitor advised you to apply for retention
4. you applied and was granted.


Thanks for clearing that up for us....

liam300tm

look ladies, I aint here looking for a tit for tat discussion, so ill leave my case at that, its my expierience of the 7 year "grey area" and I thought first hand expierience would be benifical to the origional poster.

sinnerboy

It may do Liam . But nothing can be taken for granted from your tale . Retention permissions can be refused . You were lucky . Not every one is

sydthebeat

liam300tm wrote: »

look ladies, I aint here looking for a tit for tat discussion, so ill leave my case at that, its my expierience of the 7 year "grey area" and I thought first hand expierience would be benifical to the origional poster.

fair enough liam, but do you accept that you were incorrect to say after 7 years you get 'default' planning....

Builderfromhell

No6 wrote: »

It could only be exempt if it complied with the exempted development standards in force at the time it was built and was built after the original development was completed. If it dosnt comply with the exempted development standards then it does require retention no matter how long its there for.

Thanks No6 and others,
That seems to clarify the matter.
For your info. my client got planning permision 7 years ago and built an extension in compliance with all conditions of planning.
However, it has recently been noticed that the site location map showed his site in a different place than where it really is.
The Local Authority noted this on their e-plan.
I am now trying to rectify the situation and hoping I do not need to apply for retention.
The main reason I am hoping not to need to apply for retention is that the site may have difficulties passing a Site suitability test.
Messy situation.
I have written to the Local Authority asking them to simply move the site on their e-plan. Problem solved if they do.

Didn't mention all this at the start as it is perhaps too complicated.

muffler

Builderfromhell wrote: »

However, it has recently been noticed that the site location map showed his site in a different place than where it really is.

Are you saying that the wrong location maps were submitted with the original planning application or simply that the PA plotted the site wrong on their maps?

No6

muffler wrote: »

Are you saying that the wrong location maps were submitted with the original planning application or simply that the PA plotted the site wrong on their maps?

If its the first case you will require retention as the fault was with your clients and their agents if its the second case please let us know what happens because as we all know Local Authorities never make mistakes!!!:rolleyes:

pseudo-tech

No6 wrote: »

If its the first case you will require retention as the fault was with your clients and their agents if its the second case please let us know what happens because as we all know Local Authorities never make mistakes!!!:rolleyes:

And when they do, it is our fault anyway. So one way or the other your client will be paying the bill!!