a n00b needs some information regarding SSB/LSB/CB radios

Eric Cartman

ok so a thread ongoing on motors about cb radio, im very interested in kitting out my car, first of all what are the pros and cons of CB vs SSB radio , second of all, is there a small radio that could be mounted in a car DIN slot which will do CB/SSB/LSB/USB (prefferably something with all digital gauges , i hate the look of the president radios) , if your suggesting a radio please note i wont pay over 300 euro for anything

BravoMike

Ok, first of all I'm not quite sure what you mean by CB v SSB.
CB stands for Citizens Band and is an allocation of set frequencys you are allowed to transmit freely with out a licence. SSB stands for Single Sideband and is a mode just like AM,FM and MW on your normal car radio.

I'm not too familiar with CB so hopefully someone could try explain the other questions you have.

Have a look here to see if there are a few rigs that might tickle your fancy.

[FONT=&quot]http://www.joestruckstuff.com/index.htm[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.truckstuff.ie/[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.prideofthefleet.org.uk/cb-radio-accessories-c-84.html?zenid=8b8b277b78f024fd1991fe24ecca7f1f[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.lorrybits.com/index.php?cName=cb-radio-for-trucks&oscsid=2c052945aaaafca57c9833dadeb92ffb[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.roadking.co.uk/products.asp?category=Electrical&subcategory=CB%20Radios[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]https://store.truckstuff.co.uk/_04F8FF5E851848ADB62E17DF99D53845/cbsaccessories/[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.thunderpole.co.uk/cb_radios.htm[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.fsb-shop.nl/[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.radios-uk.com/cbradio.htm[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]http://www.scorpiontechnology.ie/cb_radios/cb_radios.html[/FONT]


One word of advice buy a good antenna something like a K40 antenna.
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watty

Note that if it is more than 1W AM and more than 4W FM/SSB and has no CE mark, it's not legal.

Though some Radios claiming to be 10W to 20W SSB (peak) are really only 4W, so legal.

I've never seen one than fits a DIN radio slot.

I get parts like aerials from Rocket Radio
http://www.rocketradio.co.uk/


CB is a Band (From USA Citizens Band). The UK uses different band on some radios so be wary of UK imports unless they claim to have European CB frequencies (which is what we use). The Older UK FM band for CB is used in Ireland for Licensed Comunitity radio. It is the part between the European Cb and the Amateur Radio 10m band.

SSB (single sideband) gives the most range. USB and LSB are different flavours of SSB. Most bands and services use USB. exceptions
160m USB or LSB, mostly SSB
80m LSB
40m LSB

CB SSB can be USB or LSB, but USB is more common.

Any SSB set will do USB or LSB.

Also you can think of the rather easy IRTS Radio Amateur exam and then have powers up to 400W and have bands from 137kHz to 22GHz and directional aerials.

Only omni-directional aerials are allowed on CB. (Whips, vertical co-linear or vertical dipole)

watty

BravoMike wrote: »

One word of advice buy a good antenna something like a K40 antenna.
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A good aerial is always the most important thing.

I have no idea what a K40 is, but for CB on mobile you want a BIG whip on a large magmount. 1/4 wave is 2.75m , 5/8ths is 6.7m approx.

So Mobile you want at least 1.2m/4ft as absolute shortest, the coil/spring at base makes it seem 1/4 wave long. 5ft to 6ft better.

For home aerial a "silver" stick or similar on gable end or chimney about 18ft to 21ft long (around 6m or more) can be "tuned" to be a 5/8ths wave.

Whips work best if they are 1/4th or 5/8th. If shorter a coil hidden in base or a spring that acts as coil make the whip seem longer. Aerials can't be an arbitrary length.

I have three mobile whips of different designs for different bands.

BravoMike

watty wrote: »

A good aerial is always the most important thing.

I have no idea what a K40 is,

A K40 antenna is a brand of antenna. Have a look here, it was recommended to me by a lorry driver who uses CB.
http://www.das-roadpro.com/k40/k40antenna.asp.

Eric Cartman

ok theres a lot of good info here

in peoples opinion whats the best budget ssb radio, also as CEPT (EU) CB radio goes, whats the range on it and do many people still use it ?

dlofnep

Sidebands are for long distance operation, you cannot use them for short distances. And the distances with which you achieve, and the traffic with which you receive are dependant on what's called "the skip". It varies over a number of years.

So while you might be able to speak to someone in Canada on USB/LSB, you won't be able to speak to someone 20 miles out the road from you on it.

If you are looking for something for your car - then any AM/FM CB will do. If you want, you could get a mobile burner to give a bit more range. (Just amplifies your signal).

As for antenna, the lads have already stated - Get a k40 - These a great little mobile antennas. As for a CB - My first ever CB was a Superstar 3900F which I bought about 10 years ago. Great radio - same as Superstar 3900, but with a built in frequency readout. But if you'ren ot going to be DXing, then you don't need sidebands.

watty

SSB can be used perfectly for short distance. The short the distance the better the signal.

@dlofnep
You are confusing "skip" with Ground waves. Ground waves we have all the time. Skip or Long Distance (DX) is only occasionally on 10m/11m-CB/12m (24MHz to 30MHz). Nothing to do with SSB/USB/Sideband.

A so called "burner" is a linear amplifier. Totally illegal on CB.

SSB (Sideband/USB/LSB) on regular Ground wave gives about x4 the distance of FM, which is about twice AM. It works just fine for nearby use.

The K40 is overpriced for what it is and is not much different to a traditional long "springy" whip.
The essential part:

57 1/4", 17-7 Stainless Steel Whip Antenna
K40 K-40 Boot Mount CB Antenna *ORIGINAL*! K40 K-40 Boot Mount CB Antenna *ORIGINAL*! £47.50
Needs
K40 K-40 Magnamount *ORIGINAL* Magnetic Mount £24.95 unless you really have a suitable boot or bonnet

OR
Orbitor 2KW* CB Antenna Our Price: £12.49 1.55m = 61"
(longer is better up to 1/4Wave)
Turbo Mag 3/8 thread 7" 180mm £10.99 (Mount).

Reception and Transmission is much better on roof than boot/bonnet.

The K40 needs to mount on a 4x4 bonnet really. Since it has no spring, it will easily break on low bridges, parking, toll bars, hedgerows on a roof on mag mount. Given the specs it can't perform ANY better than the Orbiter
Prices from
http://www.rocketradio.co.uk/mobile-antennas-38-c.asp
But shop around.

I use a mag mount and slip my 144MHz/430MHz aerial and mount into hatch when I park after someone cut the cable and took mag mount and aerial at Mountrath when I was in petrol station for a coffee!

My biggest whip needs a triple pad mag-mount. It's a dual band 10m/11m and 6m aerial, very long and lot of wind load as there is no spring. It rips off ordinary mag mount at about 80kph (bang!). I have a military radio that can tune it from 1.8MHz to 30MHz. With my FT817 radio and Auto ATU it works from 7MHz to 50MHz.

To use higher power than 4w or other more interesting bands you need a licence.



AM/FM only is about 1/2 the price of a set that does SSB as well because SSB is more complex to generate and receive. SSB ALWAYS gives more range, even locally.

Neither kind of CB will fit under Dash. Ireland allows CE/ETSI European CB with SSB as well as AM/FM for CB. Last time I looked UK was AM/FM only.

All SSB sets do AM/FM also and often have selection of bands for different EU countries. AM/FM sets tend to be more limited.

If you get a licence a CB with SSB can usually be modified for 10M and/or used as an IF for Transverters. The AM/FM only sets are usually not usefull to be modified for non-CB use.

A modified set can't be used on CB bands only on Licenced bands, with a licence!

(*You're an idiot if you think any CB whip can be safely used at more than about 50W to 200W depending on model, and only on 10m. On 11M/CB the max legal power is 4W, the 2KW is "marketing")

fatboymsport

such a collection of know-it-all's and none of ye seem to have a clue.


sign up on frequencydb.com and get some proper advice.

watty

That's not a useful contribution to conversation here. frequencydb fulfills a different function to here and often has totally inaccurate or illegal advice.

It's close to an abusive post too. Read Boards.ie rules and be less arrogant.

fatboymsport

no abuse in my post just because i dont agree with most of what you post there is no need to put your mods hat on.

i dont see the illegal activity on Frequencydb i do see 100 times more activity than on here thou so the are doing something right.

watty

Perhaps because you are not a Communication Engineer and haven't worked with Comreg, Ofcom, ITU etc and don't have the engineering or legal knowledge.

The clue is in the name. FrequencyDB is primarily about frequencies. it's a specialist niche site. This forum is part of a broad community. Of all the aspects of Radio, CB is the one with the most superstition and nonsense, partly because qualified Engineers didn't bother discussing it. Unlike many engineers and some people in the Amateur Radio community I see CB as worthwhile hobby and I'm prepared to take time to explain. I've designed and repaired radio equipment ranging from 60KHz to 12GHz, including transmitters, linears, converters, receivers, synth, vcos etc for over 25years. I'm genuinely curious to know what incorrect information I've given. Maybe I've made a mistake.


If there are specific statements you think are in error, say so. Simply posting to tell people to go elsewhere would get you banned on many sites. We are more open.

fatboymsport

im not going to get into a debate with you as i see no point as i am below your expert level. with me only being a amateur radio operator.and a cb op for 10 years before that.

if you actually joined Frequencydb you would see there is a whole world of more info than just frequencies on it.

watty

You are making assumptions.

You critised the thread and still have made no specific points.

Are you an "Amateur Radio" operator or a Licenced "Wireless Experimenter?"

I was a Radio Operator of military Radio from 1968 or so and Radio Amateur in 1971 (City & Guilds exam). "Wireless Experimenter" since 2002 I think.

I'm just curious as to what errors I have made as I like to keep learning.

snowman707

[QUOTE=watty;

The K40 is overpriced for what it is and is not much different to a traditional long "springy" whip.
[/QUOTE]


While I agree the it is 'pricey' but at the end of the day you get what you pay for.
I have used a K40 in my cb days well over 30 years ago now & the contacts I made I never matched on any other mobile aerial of the same specs. Australia NZ Japan S Africa west coast America etc., etc., I know conditions were fabulous is those days but the K40 always seemed to have the edge, both on DX & groundwave.

30 days money back & 5 years warranty ( don't know if it stands outside USA) says a lot for the manufacturer's faith in their product.

snowman707

fatboymsport wrote: »

if you actually joined Frequencydb you would see there is a whole world of more info than just frequencies on it.

I am a member and I see quite a number of individuals who think of their own interest, (mostly VHF/UHF enthusiasts) & think every one else knows nothing about radio, some thing like your attitude actually.

After a year or two they disappear & all the gear is on buy & sell or one of the websites.


EDIT Sorry off topic here, not meaning to hijack the thread.

73

watty

The Sunspots will come back again (eventually).

Antenna

watty wrote: »

Last time I looked UK was AM/FM only.

legal CB in the UK allows FM modulation only.

Frequency list here:
http://www.grozzer.freeuk.com/info01.html

watty

MOre info here
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/reference/spec/ukfreq.php

experimenter

snowman707 wrote: »

(mostly VHF/UHF enthusiasts)

Glad I'm not sensitive :cool:

One of then would be me as you well know, happy to fly the EI flag on those bands. Somebody has to keep those bands alive..and I happy to let others know of what's happening.

Licensed since 1996, strictly active on VHF/UHF only.

We do get around

Back to the Original Post.

Get yourself a cheap 40channel and mobile whip off fleabay or buy and sell and see how you get on from there, not alot happening on 40Ch CB.

Good luck with it.

humaxf1

...as if anyone abided/abides by the rules regarding "CB" radio in Ireland, or Europe for that matter when it was popular. We wont mention what goes on in USA Beams and linear amps 2 a penny.

People always have to put a dampner on all the fun!

as experimenter said,

Get yourself a cheap 40channel and mobile whip off fleabay or buy and sell and see how you get on from there, not alot happening on 40Ch CB.

Good luck with it.

No point in splashing out on a fancy rig when you got no one to talk to!