Question right hand turns

not14talk

When I am making a right turn off a straight road where I am going to have to yield for on coming traffic and I am in 4th gear lets say can I switch down to 1st before I come to a complete stop or do I have to wait till I come to a complete stop before I can take my hands off the wheel put the hand break on and then switch into 1st?

betterdrive.net

not14talk wrote: »

When I am making a right turn off a straight road where I am going to have to yield for on coming traffic and I am in 4th gear lets say can I switch down to 1st before I come to a complete stop or do I have to wait till I come to a complete stop before I can take my hands off the wheel put the hand break on and then switch into 1st?

You should be approaching in 2nd gear as its only a yield situation and a stop may not be required. It is not advisable to appraoch any turning situation in 4th gear. Then if you have to stop you may or may not need the handbrake. Handbrake if your on a hill or slope. Then 1st gear and turn.
Hope that helps

DriveSkill

Just to add to the last reply....I think it depends on the situation.

If you are approaching a right turn and it is obvious due to the volume of on-coming traffic that you will have to stop then I would treat it as a normal stopping procedure. Drive up to the point where the front of your car is in line with the center of the road you are turning into and stop in whatever gear you are in. Wait until you have stopped before changing into 1st gear (see more below)

If the on-coming traffic is light and you can complete the turn without stopping then you should adjust your speed as you approach the junction, select 2nd gear and complete the turn.

The main thing is you should be planning how to handle the junction as you approach - try not to get caught in 2 minds - you are either stopping or proceeding. Dont creep forward beyond the center point of the road you are turning into.

When you go into 1st gear will depend on the traffic situation, if you have just stopped and the road is now clear to proceed then immediately go into 1st gear and drive off. Again it is a judgement call, if you are < 5km/hr as you approach the junction and it is now safe to proceed then going into 1st without completely stopping is acceptable - generally referred to as a 'rolling stop' and can be used in Yield situations.

As for the handbrake, if you have stopped and there is an incline then you must apply the handbrake. Also even if the road is level and you are stopped for a significant amount of time (say > 5-10secs) the you should also apply the handbrake.

One other safety point, you should keep the steering wheel (and therefore the front wheels) straight while waiting to turn right, only begin to turn once you have started to move. The reason is if you get hit from behind while waiting its better to be pushed straight forward than to be pushed into the path of the on-coming traffic!

not14talk

Thanks,

Do you have any tip's when turning left I always seem to be a bit wide (from the kerb) when taking a left turn.

Innervision

Sorry to hijack the OP's thread, but when stopping like this where you have to yield to traffic and have to move off quickly is it ok to slow down, stop, go into first gear and then apply the handbrake or do you always have to apply the handbrake immediately after stopping?

DrivingInfo

I think you should see www.drivingtesttips.ie.

It will help you.

DriveSkill

not14talk wrote: »

Thanks,

Do you have any tip's when turning left I always seem to be a bit wide (from the kerb) when taking a left turn.

If you are swinging wide then there are a number of possible reasons :

1. You are going too fast for the corner

Solution : Simple - slow down, should be in 2nd gear. Off the brake and clutch and under contol.

2. You are starting to turn too late

Solution : You should be starting to turn as soon as the front the the car reaches the corner. You want to be following the line of the kerb/footpath around the corner and keeping about a meter out. Practice while going slow and focus on your position relative to the left hand edge rather than the center of the road.

3. You may be suffering 'target fixation'.

Solution : If you are overly concerned about swinging too wide or possibly hitting cars emerging from the junction it is possible that you are suffering 'target fixation' what this basically means is that you focus on the area or thing that you want to avoid and as a result you actually end up driving towards it - in your case it may be that you are focussing on the center line of the road you are entering trying to ensure you keep to the left of it but in fact get drawn towards it!! (More of an issue with motorbikes but can happen with cars). The key is to look where you want to go - in the case of turning left you should assess the situation as you approach the junction and as you are turning you should be looking far up the road the road you are turning into. The only exception would be for really tight junctions where you may be focused on the gap you are getting through but in that case the speed will be significantly slower so running wide will not be an issue.

DriveSkill

Innervision wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the OP's thread, but when stopping like this where you have to yield to traffic and have to move off quickly is it ok to slow down, stop, go into first gear and then apply the handbrake or do you always have to apply the handbrake immediately after stopping?

Ideally handbrake and then gear.

However, if you are only stopping for a second or two to yield to someone and then moving off again then there is no need for the handbrake at all (unless you are on an incline). Dont apply the handbrake unless necessary, it will impede your progress.

theocn

not14talk wrote: »

Thanks,

Do you have any tip's when turning left I always seem to be a bit wide (from the kerb) when taking a left turn.

If you're emerging from a side rd turning left, a good tip is to give your steering wheel a half turn left just as you near the stop or yield line. This will position your car at an angle & will keep you close to the kerb.

not14talk

Innervision wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the OP's thread, but when stopping like this where you have to yield to traffic and have to move off quickly is it ok to slow down, stop, go into first gear and then apply the handbrake or do you always have to apply the handbrake immediately after stopping?

No problem
but what if you come to a stop sign and you are slowing down lets say from 4th gear can I switch back into 1st when I am bring the car to a stop and have to press in the clutch to stop the car from shaking?

or

do I have to come to a complete stop before changing back into 1st and do I have to have the handbrake on at a stop sign even if im on flat ground?

DriveSkill

not14talk wrote: »

No problem
but what if you come to a stop sign and you are slowing down lets say from 4th gear can I switch back into 1st when I am bring the car to a stop and have to press in the clutch to stop the car from shaking?

or

do I have to come to a complete stop before changing back into 1st

Generally speaking I would advise people to come to a complete stop first and then select 1st gear. It only takes a second and while you are changing gear you can be doing your observations left-right-left etc. Remember you have to come to a complete stop at every stop sign even if the road is perfectly clear of traffic so that second to change gear is not too much to ask. That being said if you want to go into 1st just as you are coming to a stop that is acceptable - the only danger is if you do it too early, in which case you would be faulted on the test where as if you wait until you've stopped and then quickly select 1st there is less opportunities for faults. As you get more experienced it is easier to judge when to select 1st while moving - if its coming up to a junction then it should be just within the last 1-2 meters before you stop.

not14talk wrote: »

do I have to have the handbrake on at a stop sign even if im on flat ground?

No, dont apply the handbrake by default at STOP signs. Apply it if you are on an incline or the road you are emerging onto is busy and you will be stopped for more than a few seconds. In general, for STOP signs and STOP lines within housing estates etc there would be no need for the handbrake as you will be moving off again immediately.

DrivingInfo

I have taken the comments out of this post.

Regards

DriveSkill

DrivingInfo wrote: »

I have gone over the above posts and what I can say is:
Misleading or even worse, wrong.

Could you be more specific ?...it would help everyone rather than making sweeping statements I think.

Perhaps this is what you are referring to :

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Observations:
"observations left-right-left etc" We drive in Ireland, on the left which means the lane closest to the front of your car will have traffic coming from the right, observations means you check RIGHT - LEFT - RIGHT etc before moving off

I know we drive in Ireland on the left

My example of left-right-left was a minimum for taking a left turn. The rationale is as follows :

• Look left first into the road you are turning into to confirm its clear (incl. pedestrians etc)
• Look right to confirm there is no oncoming traffic from your right which you will need to yield to
• Look left again BEFORE you move off to confirm the road is still clear and safe.

As I said this is a minimum you need to do. But if, for example, the road you are emerging onto is busy or there is some obstruction that you need to edge out around then you may end up with a sequence of left-right-left-right-left-right-left observations.... and so on until you are sure that the road is clear. There is no simple answer that works in all cases.

If you want to start with a look RIGHT first then that is fine with me but then it has to be RIGHT-LEFT-RIGHT-LEFT....you have to finish looking in the direction the car is about to move in. Personally I'd fault people who emerged from a T-Junction who were looking right as they started to turn left.

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Just to clarify QUALIFIED DRIVING INSTRUCTOR.

Me too

DrivingInfo

I have taking the comments out of this post

Regards

DriveSkill

@DrivingInfo To be honest I'm struggling not be insulted by your last reply.

I found it condecending and lacking professional courtesy as one qualified ADI to another. I have no issue debating teaching methods, driving techniques, standards or what is or is not acceptable from a driving test point of view. The only ask I have is that you can back your interpretation and opinion of it up with documented evidence e.g. from the RSA guidelines, advanced driving manuals etc and not just videos from your website. Also I dont really think there is any real need to include a link to your site in every post - by my count you've quoted it 5 times already in this thread!!

The truth is we probably agree on 95% of things but I resent the fact that (without knowing anything about me or my qualifications) you somehow feel you have superior knowledge and are in a position to say things like 'I would suggest you tell your pupils.....'. I'm not the one looking for advice here so please dont imply that I somehow need your help to do my job.

However, the aim of this forum is to help learner drivers and I dont want to get into an arguement as already this thread has deviated from the original question.

To end on a positive note, I do agree with you on is that it is impossible to learn to drive just from reading a book, getting advice on a forum or looking at web pages. These resources will help but the only real way to learn is to get instruction, practice and experience under the supervision of a qualified instructor.

DrivingInfo

To be honest I'm struggling not be insulted by your last reply.

I AM VERY SORRY AS THIS IS NOT MY INTENTION.

About the links:
My link is part of the reply as the video's are about the OP's Query.

Observation:
Marking Guidelines:
Page 9 see (g) and (h)

Left - right - left is not adequate

Regards

DriveSkill

DrivingInfo wrote: »

I AM VERY SORRY AS THIS IS NOT MY INTENTION.

No problem, apology accepted.

As regards the whole left-right-left or right-left-right or any other combination or repeats of left and right we will just end up going in circles. The simple fact is there is no "one formula" that fits all situations and the main observation requirement when emerging from a T-Junction is that you must be sure that it is safe to proceed, taking into account both directions. That may mean 1-2 looks each way or 10 looks each way!

DrivingInfo wrote: »

Observation:
Marking Guidelines:
Page 9 see (g) and (h)

For the record, the marking guidelines do not mention what the observation should be, just that it must be adequate. The definition of adequate can vary depending on the juntion layout, obstructions etc

From the Marking Guidelines under Faults for Observation:

(g)

Not taking adequate observations before and while turning right.

(h) Not taking adequate observations before and while turning left.

DrivingInfo

As regards the whole left-right-left or right-left-right or any other combination or repeats of left and right we will just end up going in circles. The simple fact is there is no "one formula" that fits all situations and the main observation requirement when emerging from a T-Junction is that you must be sure that it is safe to proceed, taking into account both directions. That may mean 1-2 looks each way or 10 looks each way!

The problem with the above is: when a OP asks a question like the one here they would like advice which will make sense and will help.
If i said the above to a pupil they would sometimes do it correctly and sometimes not, which means they did NOT learn how to observe correctly in that situation.

Originally Posted by DrivingInfo View Post
Observation:
Marking Guidelines:
Page 9 see (g) and (h)

For the record, the marking guidelines do not mention what the observation should be, just that it must be adequate. The definition of adequate can vary depending on the juntion layout, obstructions etc

.....must be adequate.
This is what i am trying to say without insulting you left - right - left is not adequate and as seen on the TV ad may end in an accident.

I am very sorry to do this but i run they most helpful driving test tips website in the country and it is in my interest to help with the correct information.

I have trained driving instructors.
I am an experienced instructor for Car, Bikes, and Trucks.
I am RSA-ADI for cars and trucks. don't do bikes anymore.

If you look at this video you will see what i am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl7KoeVIh-k

I have always said a good instructor never stops learning and will always change their teaching so that the information they give to their pupils is easy to understand and makes sense.

I deal with Driving Instructors from all over the country and i have learned from them in the same way they have learned from me.

My own little sane:
There are Provisional Driving Instructors and there are Driving Instructors, Which one are you?

I have removed the comments from the posts on the previous page.

Also i would like to add:
I know you are RSA-ADI and i would congratulate you on that, I also see you spent a lot of money training as a Instructor.
I give advice to instructors and do it free of charge, this only happened because instructors ring me and email me because they have looked at the videos and they like what they see.

Best Regards

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

DrivingInfo

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

LOOK at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl7KoeVIh-k

left - right - left is the type of statement which leads to drivers getting into accidents and it would only be professional for all RSA-ADI's to know if they are going to post replies on the internet that they consider the repercussions of misinterpreted advise.

Regards