Lenihan wins praise from UK investors

hallelujajordan

Interesting perspective. . .

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0516/1224246701233.html?digest=1

While we all consider ourselves to be the sick child in Europe with an ineffective government, the perception from the outside may well be quite different. .

meglome

I imagine they will have missed the procrastinating and fluffing for a year before this.

The_Minister

Tbh, while he isn't my favourite Minister for Finance ever (to be polite), everything I've heard says that Lenihan has the balls for real reform and take the finances of the country in hand, but Cowan won't let him. Cowan is stopping all job cuts, all reform, because he doesn't want to lose his spot at the top.

I wish we could peer into an alternate universe to see what Ireland would be like without Cowan, but with Lenihan still around (sadly, Coughlan dies after a nasty fall). I'd say we would be better off.

It isn't right that the Minister for Finance at this point has to fight the Taoiseach and the public at the same time.

InFront

I always feel sorry for Brain Lenihan when I see him on TV. This man has come from nowhere, briefly holidayed in the justice department and has now just inherited our slice of the biggest financial problem Europe has seen since World War Two.

He looks exhausted, those sullen tired and blackened eyes are now his trademark in the broadsheet sketches, and, yet former finance minister Cowen and former Taoiseach Ahern show none of the same strain. They have passed the buck downwards. Lenihan has picked it up and is staring at it in a sort of dumb despair.
I think Brian Lenihan is a gifted politican, his mental and logical faculties are impressive, being more Bruton than Biffo. He brings a thoughtful and calculated leadership to the finance department that is framed by his legal background. ironically, his method would have been most useful during the boom years. But right now the country needs an economics expert and a bold thinker. Bring back McCreevy?

astrofool

The_Minister wrote: »

Tbh, while he isn't my favourite Minister for Finance ever (to be polite), everything I've heard says that Lenihan has the balls for real reform and take the finances of the country in hand, but Cowan won't let him. Cowan is stopping all job cuts, all reform, because he doesn't want to lose his spot at the top.

I wish we could peer into an alternate universe to see what Ireland would be like without Cowan, but with Lenihan still around (sadly, Coughlan dies after a nasty fall). I'd say we would be better off.

It isn't right that the Minister for Finance at this point has to fight the Taoiseach and the public at the same time.

Was it not the same for Harney when they created the HSE? She wanted to cut the number of admin staff (as they weren't needed), and Bertie said no.

If so, what is it that happens at the taoiseach level that removes their ability to make any tough decisions?

The_Minister

astrofool wrote: »

Was it not the same for Harney when they created the HSE? She wanted to cut the number of admin staff (as they weren't needed), and Bertie said no.

If so, what is it that happens at the taoiseach level that removes their ability to make any tough decisions?

Firstly, if I recall correctly, the negotiating with the unions was done prior to Harney taking Health (she inherited the mess.)

Secondly, he's the leader of the country, can sack you at will, and can overrule you. Small things you could win on, but a budget?

ejmaztec

Isn't it time for all of them to be ganging up on Cowen? Out of all of them, he seems to be the least in touch with public opinion. He wouldn't acknowledge the elephant in the room even if it stood on him.

The_Minister

ejmaztec wrote: »

Isn't it time for all of them to be ganging up on Cowen? Out of all of them, he seems to be the least in touch with public opinion. He wouldn't acknowledge the elephant in the room even if it stood on him.

Why hasn't Richard Bruton long ago deposed Enda Kenny?

Same reasons.

Dob74

In fairness to BL the big mistakes where made by Cowan, Bertie and McCeevy.
Remember last year when BL said "the construction industry has come to a shudding halt." The indo & co attacked him for for talking down the economy.
Now alls BL can is do react from one disaster to another.

gimme5minutes

InFront wrote: »

I think Brian Lenihan is a gifted politican, his mental and logical faculties are impressive, being more Bruton than Biffo. He brings a thoughtful and calculated leadership to the finance department that is framed by his legal background. ironically, his method would have been most useful during the boom years. But right now the country needs an economics expert and a bold thinker. Bring back McCreevy?

He might be a gifted politician but there is no way in hell he is qualified for the job of Minister for Finance, by far the most important economic job in the country, if not the most important job overall. A guy with no economic background or training is deciding the fate of the nation during the worst financial crisis we've ever faced, it's a laughable situation. And I dont know where this gifted politician thing is coming from, by gifted do you mean incompetant? The guy couldn't even read highlighted sections of reports he himself commissioned on the financial crisis and in doing so made serious financial decisions without knowing essential information about the banks, among other gaffes he made at the start of the year. He also should've fired the regulator, which was in his power to do and would've been done if this was the UK, rather than letting him retire on a golden handshake. He's an idiot just like the rest of them.

hallelujajordan

The_Minister wrote: »

Tbh, while he isn't my favourite Minister for Finance ever (to be polite), everything I've heard says that Lenihan has the balls for real reform and take the finances of the country in hand, but Cowan won't let him. .

To be fair the article remarks on how he was acknowledged positively for the things he had done. . . as part of the Cowen government. . I wonder if we are slow to give credit for these things because a) we are suffering as a result of these measures and b) we are Irish and we like to whinge !

Ireland was the first country to bring in the bank guarantee last year and all of the other European countries quickly followed . . . Lenihan has been willing to make difficult decisions and follow them through . . Maybe history will remember this government more favourably than we currently look on them ?

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Maybe history will remember this government more favourably than we currently look on them ?

History won't have paid a fortune to bail out millionaires and gotten f**k all in return...

InFront

gimme5minutes wrote: »

He might be a gifted politician but there is no way in hell he is qualified for the job of Minister for Finance, by far the most important economic job in the country, if not the most important job overall. A guy with no economic background or training is deciding the fate of the nation during the worst financial crisis we've ever faced, it's a laughable situation. And I dont know where this gifted politician thing is coming from, by gifted do you mean incompetant?

No, but he is a talented politician, you accepted this may be the case yourself at the start of your posting.
Look, I am a Fine Gael supporter but not blindly so. I think Lenihan is a bad choice of minister for the current climate, and have already said that. However, he is undoubtedly doing the best he can do with his abilities and the situation he has inherited from the former minister and current taoiseach who has an awful lot more questions to answer than are being asked of him.

Furthermore think that if Fine Gael got into power in the morning they should maintain contact with Lenihan as someone who is right at the centre of this economic downturn and probably better briefed than any other member of Dail Eireann. Sadly, with the ridiculously divisive state of Irish politics right now, the political parties would be too egotistical and pig headed to actually engage in that sort of constructive dialogue and co-operation.

The guy couldn't even read highlighted sections of reports he himself commissioned on the financial crisis and in doing so made serious financial decisions without knowing essential information about the banks

Absolutely true, big blunder. I want to make clear I'm not defending that. It is quite true the net result would have been the same of course, whether the minister had read the report in full or not.

, among other gaffes he made at the start of the year. He also should've fired the regulator, which was in his power to do and would've been done if this was the UK, rather than letting him retire on a golden handshake.

Again, I have no reason to defend Lenihan or his party but you do realise there were legal issues with respect to the FR's retirement payment?

Furthermore, it bothers me that people get so caught up in these relatively small payments which are legally binding anyway when the country has so many bigger problems and there are so many more serious outrages at hand, such as Government dallying over unemployment and certain structural cuts that actually effect people.
I wish the media in particular would, for the sake of the majority of the people actually feeling the effects of the recession, stop distracting everyone from the issues by convincing them that Michael Fingleton's pension is worth more media space than more serious policy issues that are delaying our economic recovery as a nation.

Sand

Furthermore, it bothers me that people get so caught up in these relatively small payments which are legally binding anyway when the country has so many bigger problems and there are so many more serious outrages at hand, such as Government dallying over unemployment and certain structural cuts that actually effect people.

Those payments are relatively small on their own merits, but they are symptoms of serious issues that underly our public service and indeed the accountability in our government. The FR failed utterly in the role in which he was expected to carry out. He was allowed to retire and given a nice pot to retire on as a reward for a job terribly done.

This wasnt considered at all problematic, and was simply business as usual in the public service and the government. If we get our government and our public service right, then a lot of the other issues will follow.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

While we all consider ourselves to be the sick child in Europe with an ineffective government, the perception from the outside may well be quite different. .

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/n/nanci_griffith/from_a_distance.html

InFront

Sand wrote: »

Those payments are relatively small on their own merits, but they are symptoms of serious issues that underly our public service and indeed the accountability in our government. The FR failed utterly in the role in which he was expected to carry out. He was allowed to retire and given a nice pot to retire on as a reward for a job terribly done.

Firstly, I don't disagree with that statement at all. My problem is this constant re-hashing of former salaries paid to group chief executives and in some cases their retirement payments and pensions. When are people going to move on and see the real issues?

Yes there are serious issues with regard to how our banking and financial system operates, but these relatively small payments are not at the heart of the problem. They are used to satisfy the masses; it is nothing short of scapegoating. The banking salaries are just not relevant anymore yet the media remains obsessed by it, convincing the public that it matters to them.

Look at it this way, the only boss left is Eugene Sheehy AIB and he doesn't have long left. Yes they're right to be fired but can you tell me who has lost his job in the public service? Are the public service devoid of blame? Do the public service really want us to believe they are untouchable? Are we expected to buy into the notion that the problem began and ended with Patrick Neary? Come on.

To add insult to injury thousands of civil servants are refusing to take part in performance assessments (PMDS) to ensure that the taxpayers are actually getting value for money. Michael Fingletons goodbye payment was one million euro and paid for by his own company not the taxpayer. At a time when the public service is costing the tax payer hundreds of millions of euro to employ, that level of non-complicance is just not on.
The public service is rotten to its core.

Over seven thousand people got the sack in April this year. That is up 135% on this time last year. That the public service can sit smugly by with very generous salaries, and working conditions, and enormous pensions, and expect untouchable job security is absolutely ludicrous.

Many people relate the banking crisis to the Thatcherite era of the 1980s that encouraged ruthless profit chasing. I propose a return to such ruthlessness of the Thatcher era in a different respect - face down the unions and fire the inefficient and unaffordable elements within the civil and public services.

The 2.5% and 3.5% pay increases paid to them in September and October of last year should be rescinded as they were a complete outrage at a time when private sector workers were taking significant cuts, often voluntarily.

I don't want to make a rant out of this issue, but instead of putting pressure on Brian Lenihan about little things like bankers' pensions or politicians cars or travel expenses we need to look at the bigger issues.
Look at the medical cards issue - Government do actually respond to public outrage, so lets be outraged by the systematic failures and demand change that will save us billions, not a million here or there. Otherwise, we are doing a disservice to our own economic recovery and burying our heads in the sand.

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/n/nanci_griffith/from_a_distance.html

Good point . . i guess the alternate argument is that maybe we are too close to make an objective assessment . .

thebman

Are there any non-Irish sources on this?