Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

blackjack card counting

Options
  • 17-05-2009 6:19pm
    #1
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭


    Has anyone here heard of any card clubs catching a card counter in the club?

    What if any "legal" punishments can be enforced?

    From my limited inteligence i think that card counting alone in vegas wont get you locked up, just you being told to leave and/ or get the sh*t kicked out of ya round back but if you use a device to help you count the shoe that is an actual serious crime over there and get long jail time for it to correct??

    As Irish law at the moment doesnt know its ear from its arsehole with card clubs what legal steps can a club here take if someone is caught counting in a casino using a device (such as the "a blackjack counter" on the iphone)



    Edit: Mods can you leave this here and not move it to gambling as its people who actually play in cards clubs opinions i'd like


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    RasTa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Hammer to the hand out the back alley.


  • Options
    #3
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    I said "Legal" now i know that that of course would be a strong possibility but legally?? sent to jail??


  • Options
    #4
    Samoa Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭Samoa Joe


    My cousin makes a good income from counting cards but to be fair she works in Hallmark


  • Options
    #5
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    come on guys it was a serious question


  • Options
    #6
    Whyno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Whyno


    Id reckon if der caught countin cards in any casino in ireland they wouldnt have to worry bout any laws other than when or where or if theyd be wakin up...Those wicklow hills have lots of stories to tell :D


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    well i dont think that that would be to much to be worried about tbh, its not the 1960's here anymore if some dude wanted to drag me out the back he better have good dental


  • Options
    #8
    Whyno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Whyno


    Wit the size of some of them foreign bouncers i dont care how hardy a lad would think he is, ya would get all ya want of it from them guys...


  • Options
    #9
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    true they are big b*stards alright have to say that but a legaly run card club is not going to jeopardize there business by kicking the sh*t out of someone anymore


  • Options
    #10
    kakak1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭kakak1


    Donkathon wrote: »
    Has anyone here heard of any card clubs catching a card counter in the club?

    I know of a player who was barred from playing because of his winning "streak". Not sure if they suspected him of card counting, which without the aid of any "devices" is not illegal. I reckon the same chap would be quite capable / intelligent to be able to do it.

    It wouldn't be unusual for any casino or indeed bookmakers to refuse business from a serial winner


  • Options
    #11
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    thats very true, a guy i know of was told he wasnt allowed to play blackjack there anymore because he was consistantly winning a few grand and the club just coudnt afford it, now this guy wasnt counting he was playin alone at the table and betting the same amount right through but the basicly barred him from blackjack anyway

    No one that i have been talkin to that have caught counter could tell me any legal thing they could do except escort him from the premises and bar him


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Whyno wrote: »
    Id reckon if der caught countin cards in any casino in ireland they wouldnt have to worry bout any laws other than when or where or if theyd be wakin up...Those wicklow hills have lots of stories to tell :D

    I can't really imagine being pulled kicking and screaming from the sporting emporium by a couple of lads looking to break my hand tbh.


  • Options
    #13
    RoadSweeper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭RoadSweeper


    I thought it was near to impossible nowadays because they shuffle the deck so often?


  • Options
    #14
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    RoadSweeper wrote: »
    I thought it was near to impossible nowadays because they shuffle the deck so often?

    no it can be done:D just trying to see has anyone ever ran into a counter though that has being using a device to help count and what happened if so


  • Options
    #15
    Whyno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Whyno


    Donkathon wrote: »
    thats very true, a guy i know of was told he wasnt allowed to play blackjack there anymore because he was consistantly winning a few grand and the club just coudnt afford it, now this guy wasnt counting he was playin alone at the table and betting the same amount right through but the basicly barred him from blackjack anyway

    No that i have been talkin to that have caught counter could tell me any legal thing they could do except escort him from the premises and bar him

    I know this guy i think Donkathon and also know d clubs and if it is the same guy i`ve seen him in action.Very rarely on his own normally a few drunken mates. Charges in wit them actin drunk then gets em all on the BJ table and encourages them to make fishy moves when his stake increases. He is an intelligent guy and vey lucky but surely its not possible to consistantly win at BJ barrin you have a tried and trusted system of dabble in the cad counting.Maybe i`m wrong and pm me on the name thing if ya like.


  • Options
    #16
    Whyno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Whyno


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I can't really imagine being pulled kicking and screaming from the sporting emporium by a couple of lads looking to break my hand tbh.

    I wouldnt say der`b be to much sceaming outta ya if youve just got caught out card counting.Anyway they wouldnt approach ya at the table only when your cashing out or on the way outta the premises.


  • Options
    #17
    kakak1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭kakak1


    RoadSweeper wrote: »
    I thought it was near to impossible nowadays because they shuffle the deck so often?

    counters were able to really beat the system when the shoe only had 2/3 decks. To eliminate the problem this was upped to at least 5/6 decks.

    Stu Ungar was one who could break the system :-

    "Ungar, who had a genius level IQ and an eidetic memory[5], was able to keep track of every card in a six-deck blackjack shoe. In 1977 he was bet $100,000 by Bob Stupak, an owner and designer of casinos, that he could not count down a six deck shoe and determine what the final card in the shoe was. Ungar won the bet.

    Ungar was fined in 1982 by the New Jersey Gaming Commission for allegedly cheating while playing blackjack in an Atlantic City casino. The casino said that Ungar "capped" a bet (put extra chips on a winning hand after it was over to be paid out more), something he vehemently denied.

    The fine for this offense was only $500, peanuts to Ungar, but it would also force him to admit he cheated at blackjack, something he refused to do. Ungar believed that his memory and card counting ability (which was not illegal) were natural skills and thus he didn't need to cap bets or partake in any other form of blackjack cheating.

    Ungar fought the case in court and won, avoiding the $500 fine. However, he did pay an estimated $50,000 in legal and travel expenses. In his biography, Ungar noted he was so exhausted from travel and court proceedings that he was not able to successfully defend his WSOP main event title.

    His skill and reputation were so good that he was frequently banned from playing in casinos and he was virtually unable to play blackjack in Las Vegas or anywhere else.

    In 1997, a near-broke Ungar convinced the management at the Lady Luck to let him play single deck blackjack. Being a known card counter, they agreed on the condition that his betting would have a high and low limit, thus neutralizing Ungar's card counting ability.

    Ungar continued to play at the Lady Luck for six months. Ungar built his bankroll up to as much as $300,000 but eventually busted.[6]"


  • Options
    #18
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    Whyno wrote: »
    I know this guy i think Donkathon and also know d clubs and if it is the same guy i`ve seen him in action.Very rarely on his own normally a few drunken mates. Charges in wit them actin drunk then gets em all on the BJ table and encourages them to make fishy moves when his stake increases. He is an intelligent guy and vey lucky but surely its not possible to consistantly win at BJ barrin you have a tried and trusted system of dabble in the cad counting.Maybe i`m wrong and pm me on the name thing if ya like.

    I'd rather not pm the name m8 but the times i've seen him play was sober and on his own, maybe afew times with his misses


  • Options
    #19
    Whyno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Whyno


    Donkathon wrote: »
    I'd rather not pm the name m8 but the times i've seen him play was sober and on his own, maybe afew times with his misses

    Different dude.My guy aint got a missus...Cant be listened ta:D


  • Options
    #20
    SouthKerry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭SouthKerry


    same old same old, please get a flupping grip, why the hell bother with blackjack or any other gambling game if your good enough at poker by which i mean learn to play poker correctly and there is no need of all the hassle.


  • Options
    #21
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    SouthKerry wrote: »
    same old same old, please get a flupping grip, why the hell bother with blackjack or any other gambling game if your good enough at poker by which i mean learn to play poker correctly and there is no need of all the hassle.

    excuse me???


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    bohsman
    Registered Users Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭bohsman


    You will be banned from casinos if they catch you cardcounting. Not sure why you would need a device to help you count though?


  • Options
    #23
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    bohsman wrote: »
    You will be banned from casinos if they catch you cardcounting. Not sure why you would need a device to help you count though?

    Using a device means you can have a laugh and talk and all without having to concentrate on the cards to much as very easy to imput fast


  • Options
    #24
    a-k-47
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭a-k-47


    who gives a ****


  • Options
    #25
    Donkathon
    Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭Donkathon


    a-k-47 wrote: »
    who gives a ****

    well if you dont give a f*ck then dont post here :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #26
    Kimba
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭Kimba


    Doesnt matter if you use a device or not, you would be spotted as a card counter pretty quick. Measures would then be put in place to confirm this and if true you would be asked to leave.


  • Options
    #27
    the whole year inn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,086 ✭✭✭the whole year inn


    Whats the title of that book stu engar wrote seems like agood read!


  • Options
    #28
    TommyGunne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭TommyGunne


    Making it 5/6 decks actually helps people counting lol. Its a great thing. And RS, AFAIK, dublin casino's cut deep enough for it to be OK. They just don't give that much of a **** because the people who would count are vastly outnumbered by the number of retard degens. You'd also be pretty retarded to try count in Dublin for a living. You'd be outed within a week or two.


  • Options
    #29
    kakak1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭kakak1


    gob_smacked wrote: »
    Whats the title of that book stu engar wrote seems like agood read!


    Man behind the shades, best poker book IMO


  • Options
    #30
    Rakeline
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭Rakeline


    I dont see a problem if a person has a system and there on there own trying to beat the casino,its up to the casino to say you cant play that game anymore we reserve the right to let you play this game.

    If your in a gang with a few people and do this constantly its a different thing your basicially going to rob the casino/club in question, they cant prove it so if i had big bad ass bonucers and caught someone like that id use em.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    cloudymouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭cloudymouse


    As far as i know card counting is not illegal just frowned upon , some guy in the states brought a casino to court and the judge rulled that as a game of skill the player was just using his skill to beat it .
    However it is at managements discression that you are allowed to enter a casino and play (so any excuse will do ) ,
    in Ireland all clubs are private and membership can be revoked for any reason . Because limits here are so low €500 max per box you will be spotted fairly quickly i.e playing low and increasing your bet to the max when count is high .
    Shuffling machines have all but killed the card counter but if you play in a club with manual shoes and want to count , dont be greedy and you should be ok .


Advertisement