Civil service bike scheme

billyhead

Its about time that they have this in the Civil Service. Great news. At least i won't have to rely on my road racing bike for commuting to work (and can use it for long training spins instead) and can get a good hybrid bike worth up to €1000. Hopefully the bike shops that the contract they have with will have a good selection.:)

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0514/bikes.html

Jawgap

I really don't understand what DoF are up to (I work in the public service)?

What are they tendering for exactly? I suspect this will severely limit the range and option of bikes available to people and lock them into paying above market prices.

Where I work we just went to different bike shops and got our bikes!!! Some were bought from the LBS, a couple via the internet and a few from over the border

billyhead

Hi,

Where these bikes brought by staff who planned to avail of the scheme or by the office?

Jawgap

Bought by the office.

People wanting to avail of the scheme had to go identify a bike and get a note from the shop saying how much it cost (including any safety gear you wanted to get), then the office paid for it, following which you went to pick it up.

Internet purchases were handled in a similar fashion with the bikes being delivered to the office - that was probably the only downside as people then had to get them home, although one enterprising soul assembled his in the office!!

DePurpereWolf

A little voice in my head told me you have to buy it from Irish shops. But then again, I should never trust that voice.

I work in the public sector, if they are going to choose expensive dealers, I wont avail of the service. Getting 20% discount on a bike is useless if you have to buy it 30% above the price online.

I understand why it takes longer for the public sector, they don't want to deal with it on a personal basis, figuring out for each person at a time. If they can set up a system for all 300.000 public sector workers then they might be able to deal with it faster. That's smart.

Jawgap

While it may be your patriotic duty to buy from an Irish shop (or specifically a shop in the Repuiblic of Ireland!!) - you don't have to.

The European Commission would have a sh1t fit if that type of condition were imposed!

You can buy from anywhere in the EU.

I reckon in the grand tradition of the Civil Service the tenders will come back in and anyone wanting to avail of the scheme will be "saddled" with a cheap bike with an expensive price tag!

boniver

AFAIK this is not a tender in the traditional sense but that mechanism must be used ONLY for the purpose of compiling a list of participating shops. We spoke to someone in the Dept and we wont be tendering with a price or discount, we are just tendering (as a shop) to participate in the scheme. Government employees can still shop around among the PARTICIPATING shops to get the best deal or bike that they want.

Jawgap

boniver wrote: »

AFAIK this is not a tender in the traditional sense but that mechanism must be used ONLY for the purpose of compiling a list of participating shops. We spoke to someone in the Dept and we wont be tendering with a price or discount, we are just tendering (as a shop) to participate in the scheme. Government employees can still shop around among the PARTICIPATING shops to get the best deal or bike that they want.

So I understand, but what happens if the bike you want is available through a shop not on the list or is available at a lower price than at a shop on the approved supplier list?

It all sounds like a good idea about to be spoiled by unnecessary bureaucracy!!

I wonder if they'd be doing this if it was an FF policy, instead of a Green Party policy??*

I'm affiliated with neither!

DePurpereWolf

In all honisty, I would pay 10% more if I can get it from a local shop instead of online. Including the 20 to 40% discount, so that's 30 to 50% more)

But there are limits.
I am curious how it is going to work out, can't wait actually, my current bike needs a realy thorough overhaul. (I bought it for 250 euro two years ago, already 250 went into replacing parts, it's better to just buy a good new one and keep that one serviced)

boniver

Jawgap wrote: »

So I understand, but what happens if the bike you want is available through a shop not on the list or is available at a lower price than at a shop on the approved supplier list?

It all sounds like a good idea about to be spoiled by unnecessary bureaucracy!!

I wonder if they'd be doing this if it was an FF policy, instead of a Green Party policy??*

I'm affiliated with neither!

I suppose the point is that really there is no need for any shop not to be on the list - they just have to be efficient enough to apply. I'm not sure how this will affect shops outside of the country but as someone who's doing their best to keep an Irish shop open at the moment, you'll understand that they won't have my sympathy.

Chips Lovell

Jawgap wrote: »

I really don't understand what DoF are up to (I work in the public service)?

My understanding is that some senior civil servants in Finance decided that even though employees would ultimately pay for the bike, the fact that the employer was writing the cheque meant that the civil service would have to follow public procurement rules and put out a tender. It's kind of daft and it makes what is in essence a very simple scheme far more complicated for civil servants and delays its introduction for them.

BostonB

They get it sorted just as the winter comes in and no one has any money spare, or the desire to get on a bike.

Looking at some of the "cycle to work" rip off offers/bundles I've seen. Some shops some are definately milking the rip off.

boniver

BostonB wrote: »

They get it sorted just as the winter comes in and no one has any money spare, or the desire to get on a bike.

Looking at some of the "cycle to work" rip off offers/bundles I've seen. Some shops some are definately milking the rip off.

Ah don't be negative, it's still a great scheme. If my experience is anything to go by, shops who try to "milk the rip off" will be quickly exposed - customers are a fairly savvy bunch. In our case we had to put together a package of giveaways that far exceeded what we would normally do but we need the business to stay in business so it's hopefully a win win.

eggie

el tonto wrote: »

My understanding is that some senior civil servants in Finance decided that even though employees would ultimately pay for the bike, the fact that the employer was writing the cheque meant that the civil service would have to follow public procurement rules and put out a tender. It's kind of daft and it makes what is in essence a very simple scheme far more complicated for civil servants and delays its introduction for them.

This is only to be expected, it is the civil service after all, they are the most inefficient workforce I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. The majority of them go to work in fecking football tops for christs sake, no professionalism.

Chips Lovell

eggie wrote: »

This is only to be expected, it is the civil service after all, they are the most inefficient workforce I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. The majority of them go to work in fecking football tops for christs sake, no professionalism.

Lazy clichés about civil servants belong in After Hours.

billyhead

Hi,

Does anyone know what cycle shops will be involved with Cisil Service contract?

Chips Lovell

billyhead wrote: »

Does anyone know what cycle shops will be involved with Cisil Service contract?

They haven't compiled the list yet.

estariol

Anyone able to say at what level of the civil service does this apply? what I'm really getting at is my university employer bound by the same scheme restriction (procurement and tendering) and not just been dragging their heels?
And finally if anyone in the know can reveal the deployment date?

thanks

DePurpereWolf

Some news from a certain university in the south.

As the invoices will be processed by the University, the public sector procurement rules apply. This includes an approval process to certify suppliers for this scheme. We still are in this process as it takes longer than we had anticipated.

(This was already mentioned here, so now verified)

Details of how the scheme will operate are as follows:
1. You must contact the university before you commit to purchase of a bike.
2. You will need to choose the supplier from a list of certified bicycle suppliers approved by the university for this scheme.
3. You will need to supply to the university a quote from one of the certified suppliers for the bike and the related equipment (from a list of eligible items) of your choice.
the university will issue a purchase order to the supplier.
4. You will then get the bike from the supplier, who will address and send the invoice to the university.
5. The university will pay the invoice, and the amount will then be deducted from your salary over a 12 months (maximum) period of time, saving tax and PRSI.

I'm getting a bad feeling about this.

It is anticipated that the University scheme will be operational within the next 2 months. We hope to have it starting as soon as possible and we will keep you informed of progress.

So, there you have it, I'll have to wait on the decision on how much of a rip-off I'm willing to accept for about 2 months.

Lumen

I suspect this scheme was hatched as some kind of trojan horse by the sinking-ship-jumping Greens to demonstrate how the public sector is capable of turning even the simplest idea into a convoluted mess.

sorry for the mixed metaphors

Jawgap

eggie wrote: »

This is only to be expected, it is the civil service after all, they are the most inefficient workforce I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. The majority of them go to work in fecking football tops for christs sake, no professionalism.

Completely off topic and I know I shouldn't rise to the bait, but sometimes I can't help myself!

I can tell you in our office nobody wears football tops - a few rugby tops on Fridays but suits, ties and smart dress the rest of the week.

My colleagues to a person are diligent and hardworking - which maybe cannot be said of me as I'm posting on a bulletin board during my working day.

You're argument would be so much stronger if you didn't so willingly surrender to embracing stereotypes perpetuated elements of the media more interested in sales and airtime than truth and accuracy.

billyhead

True Lumen,

But if it results in getting a bike for nearly half price then who will complain.:D
I would think it will still be some length of time before its finally set in stone. Civil Service bureaucracy:mad: and all that.

BroomBurner

billyhead wrote: »

True Lumen,

But if it results in getting a bike for nearly half price then who will complain.:D
I would think it will still be some length of time before its finally set in stone. Civil Service bureaucracy:mad: and all that.

In fairness, if there wasn't the bureaucracy and procurement procedure put in to place, there would be uproar in the public about what money was spent, where, etc. etc. etc. The public sector (should, and usually is, for lower members anyway), very careful with how they spend public money on payback schemes. It's only right that they should implement some sort of procedure for this too. The timing is pretty horrendous though, 8 months already and no sign. I wonder will they include maintenance, I'd like my bike fixed, as opposed to getting a new one

Hope that wasn't too off-topic!

estariol

BroomBurner wrote: »

In fairness, if there wasn't the bureaucracy and procurement procedure put in to place, there would be uproar in the public about what money was spent, where, etc. etc. etc. The public sector (should, and usually is, for lower members anyway), very careful with how they spend public money on payback schemes. It's only right that they should implement some sort of procedure for this too. The timing is pretty horrendous though, 8 months already and no sign. I wonder will they include maintenance, I'd like my bike fixed, as opposed to getting a new one

Hope that wasn't too off-topic!

procurement/tendering does not promote value for money, where I work we frequently end up paying too much for the inferior product/service due to this deeply flawed verbose procdeure!

I can only hope the list of approved bike suppliers is not too restrictive

BostonB

estariol wrote: »

procurement/tendering does not promote value for money, ...

Why?

Whats the alternative?

Lumen

BostonB wrote: »

Why?

Whats the alternative?

In this case, simple common sense. The employee is incentivised to seek best value, since they're paying for it through salary sacrifice. It's not public money.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

In this case, simple common sense. The employee is incentivised to seek best value, since they're paying for it through salary sacrifice. It's not public money.

Actually it's liability and not value for money that I believe is their main concern. Stupid compo culture.

BostonB

Lumen wrote: »

In this case, simple common sense. The employee is incentivised to seek best value, since they're paying for it through salary sacrifice. It's not public money.

Best value might not be legal.

Morgan

BostonB wrote: »

Best value might not be legal.

For example?

Lumen

BostonB wrote: »

Best value might not be legal.

Which bit of "common sense" was not clear?

Traumadoc

Don't worry it will be at least 6 months before this is introduced by the public service. I called the department of finance who told me it would be ready to go to tender by the end of April. Now it was "close to being finalised" in March, close to being finalised means "yea we know about it".

Talked to a cycle shop owner who told me it took 18 months to come in for public servants in the UK.

BostonB

Lumen wrote: »

Which bit of "common sense" was not clear?

Which part of human nature is not clear?

kincsem

Any committees appointed? :pac:

billyhead

The delay is probaly due to the lack of interest shown by staff to the scheme. If a lot more staff enquired about hte scheme it may put more pressure on the Gov to speed it up. Just my 2 cents. Like how hard can it be to implement it.

Traumadoc wrote: »

Don't worry it will be at least 6 months before this is introduced by the public service. I called the department of finance who told me it would be ready to go to tender by the end of April. Now it was "close to being finalised" in March, close to being finalised means "yea we know about it".

Talked to a cycle shop owner who told me it took 18 months to come in for public servants in the UK.

Jawgap

Traumadoc wrote: »

Don't worry it will be at least 6 months before this is introduced by the public service. I called the department of finance who told me it would be ready to go to tender by the end of April. Now it was "close to being finalised" in March, close to being finalised means "yea we know about it".

Talked to a cycle shop owner who told me it took 18 months to come in for public servants in the UK.

I'm in the public service and we've got our bikes - this is Finance acting the b011ix. If this was a FF scheme or there was a Green Minister in there, they'd have done it an awful lot quicker.

I reckon a lot has to do with limiting choice and ensuring prospective purchasers don't buy from outside the country. What it will mean is that people will either be over-charged and will not bother because of the hoops they'll have to jump through.

billyhead wrote: »

The delay is probaly due to the lack of interest shown by staff to the scheme. If a lot more staff enquired about hte scheme it may put more pressure on the Gov to speed it up. Just my 2 cents. Like how hard can it be to implement it.

There's plenty of interest in our place. We've had 8 bikes supplied under the scheme so far and 3 more are in the process of being purchased. I reckon if the weather picks up there'll be at least another 3 to 4 more. Even if there isn't it still means more than 10% of our staff have got bikes on the scheme and we've nothing to do with roads, cycling, the environment or anything like that.

What we do have is a HR Manager who made things as easy and as straightforward as possible to get a bike!!! (.....and he's not even a cyclist!)

billyhead

Jawgap,
What department are you in. Its stupid if some departments have introduced it and others are delaying things. I want my new bike:mad:

Traumadoc

There has been lots of interest especially I am told from the department of education and HSE.

baybike

I'm picking my bike scheme bike up on Friday - yay!

Was just going to get a simple hybrid to spin in and out to work on...but then I decided that if I threw in a bit of my own money I could get a great bike for my own training and just use my old road bike for getting to work on...so I now own an all-ultegra Trek 1.9...and my trusty Giant will be making the spin into work with me every day!

But, no shops tendered for supplying the bikes. Our finance dept. presumed that everyone would get their bike from one particular shop and then were surprised to get my invoice from a different shop...there are three lbs in the town, hello! So it seems like things are as thoughtfully planned out as always:rolleyes:

billyhead

Are you by any chance in the civil service

BostonB

billyhead wrote: »

The delay is probaly due to the lack of interest shown by staff to the scheme. If a lot more staff enquired about hte scheme it may put more pressure on the Gov to speed it up. Just my 2 cents. Like how hard can it be to implement it.

I doubt thats the reason. Its the procurement process just takes a long time.

baybike

Indeed I am...that's why I replied to this thread:p