Anti-social behaviour - Pub closing times???

ChristIsMurph

Ok now I know I'm the one who wants to actually be on the council, but I wanted to see could I get everyone elses opinions on this subject? (I think it makes more sense for the general public to actually come along and have their say on this as when was the last time you saw any of the Borough Council on John Street at 3 in the morning?)

So how do people believe this could be solved?

Like should we have:
Pubs reverted back to the original closing times?
Pubs all close at the same time?
Take aways close before pubs?
Extra late licenses for one or two pubs?
Or anything anyone can think of......

fabbydabby

The rule of Off licences closing at 10PM is a complete mystery to me. It adds NOTHING other than an irritating inconvienence. I really do not understand the thinking behind it at all. Is it supposed to prevent drunkenness or alcoholism or what?

I have been drinking less and driving more lately and I have driven up though John Street on many a Saturday Night at 3AM. On more than one occasion I have had to stop the car because there was someone getting the **** kicked out of him on the street.

People have been saying it for years... there is nothing new here: Just allow pubs and clubs to stay open as long as they want. I have been in clubs all over Europe, some that stay open until 6am, people just go home in their own time in dribs and drabs, no mass exodus.

Obviously nobody on the council is in a position to grant this permission, so the whole thing is a waste of time. I go out most weekends and have never been involved in an altercation of any description. I do enjoy staying out late and partying and basically just enjoying myself though and I hate the authoratarianism which greatly restricts my doing this.

We are getting 4ss raped on tax at the moment to support GOVERMENTAL fu<k ups and half the bloody country is out of wok., The least they could do is let us have the weekend.

ChristIsMurph

fabbydabby wrote: »

The rule of Off licences closing at 10PM is a complete mystery to me. It adds NOTHING other than an irritating inconvienence. I really do not understand the thinking behind it at all. Is it supposed to prevent drunkenness or alcoholism or what?

Nobody on the Borough Council can do anything about this issue in fairness. The idea is so that when you leave the pub you can't go buy more that is all.

fabbydabby wrote: »

I have been drinking less and driving more lately and I have driven up though John Street on many a Saturday Night at 3AM. On more than one occasion I have had to stop the car because there was someone getting the **** kicked out of him on the street.

People have been saying it for years... there is nothing new here: Just allow pubs and clubs to stay open as long as they want. I have been in clubs all over Europe, some that stay open until 6am, people just go home in their own time in dribs and drabs, no mass exodus.

Obviously nobody on the council is in a position to grant this permission, so the whole thing is a waste of time. I go out most weekends and have never been involved in an altercation of any description. I do enjoy staying out late and partying and basically just enjoying myself though and I hate the authoratarianism which greatly restricts my doing this.

We are getting 4ss raped on tax at the moment to support GOVERMENTAL fu<k ups and half the bloody country is out of wok., The least they could do is let us have the weekend.

On the council we would have powers to change about these times by working with the Gardaí and the courts. Thats how all this came about in the first place when the Mayor at the time decided to screw about with the closing times resulting in the shambles we have now.

catbear

a return to mass exodus would be a huge mistake i believe. i've lived in places where bars closed when then last patron stumbled home, so effectively no limit and there were no anti social problems.

on a recent trip in Europe i was in an underground metro late on a Saturday night and beer was still been served on the platform! again no anti social problems; there was a security presence and their muzzled dogs looked more like wolves recently captured from the transalpine forests.

ultimately i see the solution been a national law and order problem and not one for individual councils alone to solve. unfortunately we still live in a society that thinks binge drinking is a positive social activity.

i view the off license 10pm limit as a fig leaf from the government to the vintners in the face of falling sales. nothing new here, just more of the horse trading that at the end of the day has the interests of the public last.
the people get the government they deserve.

Roare

Opening hours should be extended, and a number of late bars with proper late license not just an hour after the pub closes.

As with the previous post's people will head home when they want, you will not have everyone on the street at once. People will be able to get taxis much easier, there should be less altercations on the street, and should hopefully curb some of the anti social behavior.

brettmirl

I've lived on John St for most of my life. We were promised CCTV covering the street for as long as I can remember, but it's still not there.
I think CCTV would be a start in cracking down on anti-social behaviour. A visible presence of the Gardai too would be great...in fairness, they are around John St a lot more of late than they were in previous years.

Staggering closing times would also be a HUGE help. Having everyone pour out on the streets at the same time is pure madness.

Chippers - not really a problem. Let them open and close when they want. If someone is out to cause a fight/trouble they will do it regardless of if the chippers are open or not. Most rows I've seen though the years tend to be around the taxi ranks...not chippers.

The best way to fix it all is to arrange really heavy rain every Saturday night
Nothing better than rain to clear the street at 2am!

ChristIsMurph

CCTV is essential on John Street, but it needs to be good quality CCTV not the crap that is used in most places. It's pointless having something up if we can't even make out the persons face.

I personally would be more in favour of later closing times for certain pubs. But not them all as it just puts us back to square one. A later license for 3 pubs say. 2 on John Street and 1 on Parliament Street.

Taxi ranks I want to see the one at Bateman Quay made bigger, lit more appropriately and the other rank in Dunnes car park removed and turned back into parking spaces.

Rain - sure we'll all go out about half one each Saturday night and do a rain dance so sort things out!

JohnMc1

How about getting the Gardai out of the Station House and on the Streets and have them actually enforce the laws for once.

itsonlyme

Staggering the closing times for pubs/late bars/nightclubs would be a great solution coupled with a few more fish & chip shops.....or even a breakfast roll at 2 in the morning:):):):):)

The borough should of let Supermacs stay open till 3....

zootroid

First of all pubs should do more to make sure people who are too drunk aren't served. You nearly have to be unconsciously drunk to be refused in a bar.

There should also be staggered closing times. Everyone coming out at the same time is ridiculous. In Australia, different bars close at different times, so getting a taxi is never a problem.

I agree with CCTV should be introduced to John Street, it should at least act as a deterrent.

My 2 cents......

ChristIsMurph

Ok so closing times to be changed to 12.30, 2.30 and 4? Depending on the license you have.

CCTV on John Street.

Anything else?

fabbydabby

Man if you succeeded in getting that in, I would actually campaign for you!

Though I suppose to get it in you'd have to actually be on the council, at which point campaining would be useless.

But you have my blessing nonetheless:)

road_high

I always associate the earlier closing times with CLR Marie Fitzpatrick and her incessant ramblings "how terrible and rough the city centre is at 2am in the morning...."
Typical Labour party imo strangling businesses with red tape and blocking free choice. If a pub in KK wants to stay open late, they should be allowed decide themselves, not for theBorough Council to decide everything.

road_high

itsonlyme wrote: »

Staggering the closing times for pubs/late bars/nightclubs would be a great solution coupled with a few more fish & chip shops.....or even a breakfast roll at 2 in the morning:):):):):)

The borough should of let Supermacs stay open till 3....

Again the nanny state attidude of the Borough Council. They rabbit on then about 400 year celebrations for the city. What kind of city can you not get a bite to eat at 2 in the morn?

ChristIsMurph

fabbydabby wrote: »

Man if you succeeded in getting that in, I would actually campaign for you!

Though I suppose to get it in you'd have to actually be on the council, at which point campaining would be useless.

But you have my blessing nonetheless:)

Well, I'm researching it right now. I'm in favour if it can be done. I know Purty Kitchen and Sin in Dublin both stay open past half 2. Does anyone know of anywhere outside of Dublin that does?

Realistically this will actually help pubs, taxis, Gardaí and the people who are randomly attacked on crowded streets.

brettmirl

Was it not a Judge that restricted the closing times in KK as opposed to the council?

ChristIsMurph

A judge has to sign off on it all yes. But the proposal came from Cllr. Fitzpatrick during her term as Mayor.

fabbydabby

Cllr Fitz no doubt enjoys staying in and watching the Late Late on Friday nights:rolleyes:

Showing that these measures have not worked and serve only enough to throw a dampener on tourism is grounds enough to have them revoked imo, would you agree?

jiggajt

All you have to do now darren is get the publicans to drop their prices!

rosel

we nead more gaurd's on the streat john steet can be very dangoures for some body going home alone

tom12

i seen two guys beaten up a guy friday night and no sign of the gaurd's its to easy to be out given people tickets for no tax easer than stopping fights

road_high

ChristIsMurph wrote: »

A judge has to sign off on it all yes. But the proposal came from Cllr. Fitzpatrick during her term as Mayor.

Yes and thats all the Labour party contribute in my opinion. I'm far more concerned with developing the cities infrastructure and where we can develop jobs.
Restricting opening times and choice is state imposed meddling in affaris that don't concern it. And of course it means fewer jobs as well.

Tarzan_man

I'll give the big +1 to everything mfitzy has said so far. Good show.

itsonlyme

mfitzy wrote: »

Again the nanny state attidude of the Borough Council. They rabbit on then about 400 year celebrations for the city. What kind of city can you not get a bite to eat at 2 in the morn?

Too true. Its absolutely riduclous in this day and age of 2009 that a business needs PLANNING PERMISSION to trade after 12 midnight in this city.

ChristIsMurph

mfitzy wrote: »

Yes and thats all the Labour party contribute in my opinion. I'm far more concerned with developing the cities infrastructure and where we can develop jobs.
Restricting opening times and choice is state imposed meddling in affaris that don't concern it. And of course it means fewer jobs as well.

Well extending hours will create more jobs in pubs and retain a lot of jobs for people such as Taxi drivers.

road_high

ChristIsMurph wrote: »

Well extending hours will create more jobs in pubs and retain a lot of jobs for people such as Taxi drivers.

Why can't the like of Fitzpatrick et al see this? Or maybe they don't care, more concerned with social welfare than helping businesses which would in turn create jobs.
The way Kilkenny is run just makes so angry. So small minded and an absence of any direction as to where it is going. I want to see BIG plans as to how we can further develop the place, of course while protecting what we already have. There is huge oppurtunity in the next few years here; we're going to have a full motorway link to Dublin in a year or so. Infrastructure brings jobs. There was a guy Fitzgerald I think dropped in a brochure, FG I think, all about creating jobs and developing Kilkenny, was a very good read and fair play to him.

Not this rubbish about night club closing times. What a waste of council time and consequently my tax money.

Nightwish

I completely agree that staggered closing times are the way forward. Chucking thousands of drunks onto the street at the same time is ridiculous. Again, its another example of our council shooting themselves in the foot.

brettmirl

ChristIsMurph wrote: »

Well extending hours will create more jobs in pubs and retain a lot of jobs for people such as Taxi drivers.

http://kilkennyalive.com/story/murphy-calls-staggered-pub-closing-times

mfitzy wrote: »

There was a guy Fitzgerald I think dropped in a brochure, FG I think, all about creating jobs and developing Kilkenny, was a very good read and fair play to him.

Not this rubbish about night club closing times. What a waste of council time and consequently my tax money.

http://www.davidfitzgerald.ie/

ChristIsMurph

mick_irl wrote: »

http://kilkennyalive.com/story/murphy-calls-staggered-pub-closing-times

Someone is quick off the mark anyway! I only sent that in an hour ago! :P

fabbydabby

I can certainly see an advantage for taxi drivers to getting the hours staggered again. At the moment they spend 90% of their time in the rank reading the paper and waiting for business, and the other 10% driving manically to capitalise on the 120 minutes or so per night they are actually in high demand, while people wait at the rank impatiently. The taxi's bust back into town as quick as they can (probably dangerously).

Staggered times at the weekend means a lower peak and smoother demand, which suits both the punters and the taxis. You could get them on board with this, and a petition might be a help?

also, i resent the fact that some crusty gets to tell me when I have to go home.

Deliverance XXV

I have to agree with all that has been said and this is the most productive thread I've seen here for a while.

To highlight - longer opening hours means:

(i) Less people on the streets at the one time meaning less chances of trouble.

(ii) More working hours for pubs/taxis/food places meaning more jobs.

(iii) Better promotion for Kilkenny nightlife = more stags, hens, tourists & visitors = more business = more jobs.

(iv) Better chance for taxis to make more runs = more money.

(v) More taxis available for whenever you leave the pub = less trouble/queueing in taxi ranks.

Worth it? Of course it is.

I cant see CCTV solving problems before they begin, only after they happen. Prevention is better than cure, yeah?
I don't thing two people after 'necking' eight pints and 'God knows what else' slugging it out giving a damn about a camera pointing down at them.
The only thing that would resolve that would be increased Garda presence, less chance of those two meeting and stricter regulations of people 'falling down drunk' still getting served.

That being said, there will always be trouble but surely the aim is to take measures in preventing it from happening.

My 2c worth.

road_high

Summed up my thoughts very well indeed there Deliverance, thanks

fabbydabby

Indeed. There is comparitively little traditional industry in Kilkenny when compared with towns of a roughly similar size (Waterford , Clonmel) and we rely largly on a (failing) tourism industry to keep us ticking over.

This law has castarated the hospitality industry thet keep the town buzzin'.

How about a petition? I know the licencees would be interested in it, as would the taxi men and hotels.

road_high

fabbydabby wrote: »

Indeed. There is comparitively little traditional industry in Kilkenny when compared with towns of a roughly similar size (Waterford , Clonmel) and we rely largly on a (failing) tourism industry to keep us ticking over.

This law has castarated the hospitality industry thet keep the town buzzin'.

How about a petition? I know the licencees would be interested in it, as would the taxi men and hotels.

But when you break it down, Kilkenny is not a jobs black spot as such. There is VHI, State Street and our own Glanbia amongst others. We are too quick to forget those in my opinion. And don't know why Kilkenny people compare us to Clonmel, I never go there and I'll say no more as to why...draw your own conclusions

fabbydabby

Think of the possibilities for tourist adverts:

Kilkenny! Now with even crapper pub opening hours, fewer Gardai and a mass exodus at 01.30! It's a riot!

Threadhead

I have to say fair play to Darren Murphy for kicking off this thread and fair play to him for having his finger on the pulse.

The lack of staggered closing times is a killer. And it's such an obvious solution (or at least a help) to a long running problem.

This structure is killing Kilkenny (and indeed Irish) night life. Nowhere else operates like that. People go home when they want. That's it. With a little bit of extra security and policing, this is easily achievable. The benefits are massive.

For the first 3 months of this year, we had what was tantamount to a 1930's speakeasy operating in the city centre. Music, beers and full houses until 6 in the morning. Was there a problem at any stage? Did anyone even notice it? No. It was well run and damn discreet. Word of mouth had full houses guaranteed. Something as simple as treating adults as adults would go a long way.

fabbydabby

Also agree. I was a patron of aforementioned speakeasy and it was fantastic.

I can see draconian legislation and ass widening pub and club prices driving more and more people to places such as this to socialise. It's going to go back underground, and that's pretty cool.

Who's with me!?!

Purry Cat

A lot of very interesting and thoughtful contributions here. But a number of people are missing the point that having a busy city centre on a Saturday night isn't what a thriving local economy should be about. It might create a few extra part-time jobs, but that's all.

For Kilkenny to do well, it has to be about more than relying on outsiders to come here and drink - a risky gameplan at any time and even more so in a recession.

ChristIsMurph

Purry Cat wrote: »

A lot of very interesting and thoughtful contributions here. But a number of people are missing the point that having a busy city centre on a Saturday night isn't what a thriving local economy should be about. It might create a few extra part-time jobs, but that's all.

For Kilkenny to do well, it has to be about more than relying on outsiders to come here and drink - a risky gameplan at any time and even more so in a recession.

True, but this will retain and create quite a lot of jobs in fairness. This is one step in helping create jobs across many sectors. We have come with a solution here and we now need to come with solutions in other areas of our local economy. All combined together will create a lot of jobs plus saving many more.

Hobart

Can I ask why licensed premises opening hours are being so intrinsically linked to Anti-Social behavior? Do people really believe that a changing in the opening hours, would solve this anti-social issue?

I also agree that having a busy city centre on a Saturday night isn't what a thriving local economy should be about, but people must be able to see that for a city which depends so much on tourism and the associated off-shoots, a busy city centre is a fantastic sign that the city is doing what it is best at, i.e. attracting people down to it.

As for the speakeasy, that's hardly a solution now, is it? Would that not just add fuel to the issue at hand?

Purry Cat

I also agree that having a busy city centre on a Saturday night isn't what a thriving local economy should be about, but people must be able to see that for a city which depends so much on tourism and the associated off-shoots, a busy city centre is a fantastic sign that the city is doing what it is best at, i.e. attracting people down to it.


I think the state of the Parade at the moment - and not just at the moment, but for the last six months and probably for the next six months too - is "a fantastic sign" of what's wrong with Kilkenny and its civic leadership. Unfortunately.

Hobart

Purry Cat wrote: »

I also agree that having a busy city centre on a Saturday night isn't what a thriving local economy should be about, but people must be able to see that for a city which depends so much on tourism and the associated off-shoots, a busy city centre is a fantastic sign that the city is doing what it is best at, i.e. attracting people down to it.


I think the state of the Parade at the moment - and not just at the moment, but for the last six months and probably for the next six months too - is "a fantastic sign" of what's wrong with Kilkenny and its civic leadership. Unfortunately.

Are you talking about the work going on there, or am I completely missing your point?

Threadhead

I agree absolutely with what the last few posters have said about a busy city centre on a Saturday night not being what a thriving local economy should be about. Agree absolutely.

But I feel that you guys are addressing something which is not the topic at hand. The topic at hand, not being how to stimulate local economy but rather being the changes needed in opening and closing times in city centre premises to ensure that Kilkenny can provide a healthy social playground for its natives and its tourists.

Any benefits that such changes might have for the local economy may be minimal but I would wager that they won't do much damage to the local economy either. What you will have however, is a very happy bunch of adults who can enjoy their weekends as they please in a variety of different premises at a variety of different times.

There's always going to be anti social behaviour, no matter if you throw people out of a pub at 4am, 1.30 am or 10.30 pm. If everybody is thrown out on the streets and into the same chippers and taxi ranks at the same time, it's a powder keg waiting to go off. Stagger the times, put more guards on the streets and let responsible adults reclaim the weekends from the funbusters and short sighted decision makers.

As Roy Keane once sagely noted, the definition of stupidity is to use the same methods in the same manner over a long period of time and expect different results.

highgiant1985

actually my anti social story was in langtons last night for my mates going away night out (lucky sods heading to australia )

On way home a fight broke out outside the main langtons door two lads tearing the head off each other and the garda car stops out comes a female and male garda, male garda jumps on top of the rough lad held him down while they got handcuffs out and the other lad made a runner.

Nightwish

Well it was Leaving cert grad night for a few schools, last night.

Purry Cat

Hobart wrote: »

Are you talking about the work going on there, or am I completely missing your point?

I am. You're not.