spdif

alan kelly

alright guys.. have just upgraded some of my home recording gear.. bought an m audio projectmix controller/soundcard ect.. i see it has an spdif connection. i hear the is much less loss using these so am heading in that direction. use a focusrite penta preamp and a zoom effects rack on d vocals. the preamp has no spdif connection but the effects rack has.. dont mind buying the connection for the preamp(think its around 150quid) just wondering do i need it.. ie what way is a preamp and effects unit connected in spdif,,, what order ect.. tried to look online for a drawing but to no avail... cheers

frobisher

I think I'm with you. But not 100% sure. What problem or improvement are looking for with the spdif? It's just a means of digital data transfer, it won't actually improe your A/D/A conversion in and of itself.

alan kelly

cheers 4 d reply man.. was just guessing if i use the spdif, that the recording quality inside the computer would be better. vocal into preamp plus external rack into the soundcard through spdif.. then soundcard through firewire into my mac.. will d spdif into soundcard make that much difference,, not too well up on d subject,, kinda experimenting at the moment..

PaulBrewer

It all revolves around if your external Micpre/AD conversion is better than the onboard one, which it probably is.

If it is then using SPDif will bypass the weaker links in the chain (projectmix)

alan kelly

alright paul. had a fair idea u would post a blog.. u being well up on all these 'gagets'.. actually bought d preamp off u guys in the audio warehouse.. quick plug. it is working great with an effects rack through normal cables back to d soundcard. but as i said i bought d multimix. can i come out of the effects rack through spdif or should i buy the spdif connection for the preamp.. also will it make that much difference on the overall vocal that i record..

frobisher

Your posts are hard to read Alan. Please use capitals and drop the text speak!

alan kelly

Apologies guys. Will try keep my grammer in check.

madtheory

It's debatable if the converters in the Focusrite would be better than the M Audio. Anyway, if your room is not acoustically treated that is a far bigger problem than your converters. You're not going to hear a difference, so I would be inclined to put the €150 towards sorting that first. Brewer is well versed in the black art of acoustics, and can advise you what to buy.

You can use the S/Pdif to connect your effects unit to your computer, and route it to an aux send and return in your software. Cubase and Logic make this quite straightforward, AFAIK they both have a special external i/o plugin. Pro Tools can do it too but it's a bit more technical than the other two. What are you using?

You would have to go S/Pdif out from the M- Audio to S/Pdif in of the Zoom effects unit, then analogue out of the Zoom back in to the M-Audio, using say inputs 7 and 8 (for stereo). You can't use S/Pdif both ways because AFAIK the Zoom does not have a wordclock input. Then you's set the Zoom's digital clock to external.

It'd be a neat setup because you'll be pretty much immune to ground loop hum, and you still have a spare set of analogue outputs on the M- Audio. Using an external unit for reverb saves a lot of computer processing power, and often sounds better than a plugin.

frobisher

madtheory wrote: »

Anyway, if your room is not acoustically treated that is a far bigger problem than your converters. You're not going to hear a difference, so I would be inclined to put the €150 towards sorting that first.

Is the acoustics issue going to become like mac/PC?! Telling someone who is asking about their spdif routing options to buy acoustic material is off the point.

PaulBrewer

Your main issue using SPDif to record will probably be Latency - however I guess you could use you analogue outs for latency free monitoring.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

Brewer is well versed in the black art of acoustics,

The Science of Acoustics if you please .... I know nothing compared to the men I know who do ....

alan kelly

Cheers for the replys guys. I dont post too many blogs on boards but i am on every few days reading the humour. Not too well up on this spdif gear. I would have guessed coming out of the m audio projectmix to an spdif input in the vocal preamp with the zoom effect rack connected to the preamp by audio cables. Are u saying connect from the project mix to the rack unit in spdif and through audio cables connect the preamp.. I would still connect my mic to the preamp not effects board. Sorry if i am repeating what u said but just wanna be sure,, I am a slow learner at the best of times. doh! Cheers for the patience guys.

PaulBrewer

alan kelly wrote: »

Cheers for the replys guys. I dont post too many blogs on boards but i am on every few days reading the humour. Not too well up on this spdif gear. I would have guessed coming out of the m audio projectmix to an spdif input in the vocal preamp with the zoom effect rack connected to the preamp by audio cables. Are u saying connect from the project mix to the rack unit in spdif and through audio cables connect the preamp.. I would still connect my mic to the preamp not effects board. Sorry if i am repeating what u said but just wanna be sure,, I am a slow learner at the best of times. doh! Cheers for the patience guys.

No!

Rockshamrover

PaulBrewer wrote: »

No!

A man of few words:D

frobisher

Rockshamrover wrote: »

A man of few words:D

Brewer just likes to say anything to get his post count up. ' that right Paul?

alan kelly

Thought it was just me.. Guessing my last post was that bad it only deserved two letters.. Ah dam. Just like my report cards.."must do better"

madtheory

frobisher wrote: »

Is the acoustics issue going to become like mac/PC?! Telling someone who is asking about their spdif routing options to buy acoustic material is off the point.

That's a matter of opinion. IMO, acoustics is often overlooked. Treating the room solves a myriad of problems and might be more useful to the OP in the long term. If he's not interested he's free to ignore it, and I've given plenty help on the S/Pdif issue...

alan kelly

Am interested in any and all opinions. Will take any idea on board. Cheers for the post..

madtheory

You're welcome

PaulBrewer

Alan,

Taking it that the Focusrite has a superior Mic-Pre than the M-Audio (which I can't confirm as I've not done an A/B) and leaving aside the Zoom as daisy chaining SPDif is probably the way to go I'd do the following.

Go Spdif out of Focusrite to Spdif in on M-Audio.

Within your daw you'll need to switch your input to SPDif and turn clocking to external (which may be described as spdif clock)

So now you're going digitally into the daw and making the Focusrite the master word clock.

The next step is how to monitor.

The first step will be mute the 'input signal monitor to mix' in your daw so the delayed (latency) signal is not added directly to the mix.

I'm not familiar with the details of the M-Audio or Focusrite but 2 approaches might be run the analogue outs of the Focusrite into a stereo return routed to the Mix on the M-Audio (leaving the spdif as is) .

So as you're dropping into a track you're hearing playback from your Daw and the input from your Focusrite, both in time.

When you hit record the you hear your live playing in time with the track (Focusrite analogue out > analogue in M-Audio>Monitors) but the spdif signal (Focusrite spdif out > spdif in M-Audio > Recorded track)

You might also be able to go from your Focusrite analogue out to Line Input on the M-Audio depending on routing options which may be a better plan.

alan kelly

Cheers paul. You are a wealth of information. Currently the focusrite penta which i bought off u guys has no spdif connection. Am guessing buying the connection for the back of the unit would be a good idea then. Despite it being a bloody recession i dont mind spending a few quid if the investment is worth it. None of my mates use spdif and kinda treat it like the elephant in the room.. its there, we know its there but we dont wanna learn ho to use it.

PaulBrewer

alan kelly wrote: »

Cheers paul. You are a wealth of information. Currently the focusrite penta which i bought off u guys has no spdif connection. Am guessing buying the connection for the back of the unit would be a good idea then. Despite it being a bloody recession i dont mind spending a few quid if the investment is worth it. None of my mates use spdif and kinda treat it like the elephant in the room.. its there, we know its there but we dont wanna learn ho to use it.

To be honest I'm not sure if the spdif route is the one definitely to take .... however I ain't sayin' it ain't either !

madtheory

The latency between S/Pdif i/o and analogue i/o is miniscule. It would only be the A to D delay, which is tiny.

It would be interesting to do a blind AB test comparing analogue line out of the Focusrite to its DA converter, to go in to the computer. I'd bet they'd be different, but neither would be better than the other. It's a certainty that the pre amp on the Focusrite is superior to the pre amp on the M Audio. But you can use that advantage without using S/Pdif.

IMO your €150 is better spent on speakers, or making bass traps.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

The latency between S/Pdif i/o and analogue i/o is miniscule. It would only be the A to D delay, which is tiny.

Depending on the Buffer settings?

alan kelly

Cheers for taking the time guys. Interesting reading. I think i will probably stay with the old way at least for the time being.. I would feel like the kid with the best football boots but cant get a game.Too much gear and not know how to use it. Maybe just stick to what i kinda know... For now.. Thanks a lot chaps..

madtheory

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Depending on the Buffer settings?

Sorry Paul, for some reason I thought you were implying that there would be more latency via S/Pdif compared to the onboard A to D. Having re read, I don't think you were... were you?

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

Sorry Paul, for some reason I thought you were implying that there would be more latency via S/Pdif compared to the onboard A to D. Having re read, I don't think you were... were you?

No.