Irish Cricket being pulled apart...

Poppo4

Along with E.Morgan, E.Joyce, N.O'Brien i've just read an article linking Boyd Rankin and W.Porterfield with a place in the England squad! K.O'Brien has also just signed for a county side. How do the ICC expect Ireland to get better when we're losing our best players? Fair enough they want to go place test cricket, but with them in our squad would there not be the chance for us to step up to the grade ourselves? If all the irish players go on and push into the England squad it could be possible to have more Irish in their team than English! I almost forgot our most talented up and coming star, Paul Stirling! How long will it be before he is signed up?

If only the ICB would step in, Ireland is becoming just an extra county for the ECB to find rising stars!

I would love to see an exibition match between Ireland and England, except we get to play our top players. Joyce and Portfield opening, Morgan, Stirling, N.O'Brien ripping their feeble bowling attack aside, then Rankin, K.O'Brien, Botha, McCallan and all skittling them out.

The products of this country are being exploited, and not by us.

Investment in Irish cricket is needed, there is talk of a high standard ground being built in Malahide? Is that going ahead?

D3PO

I think a start would be the ICC making eligibility ammendments for associate nations.

Would be good for a clause allowing associate players to revert to playing for their country of origin if not selected by their other qualifing country aka the English side

So that would mean we could recall for example Ed Joyce to play for us if not selected by England.

Personally I think the ICC could allow Ireland as the top associate side to schedule maybe 2 tests series in a year.

ICC should reinstate Zimbabwe as a test playing side and allow Ireland schedule 1 test series against the 2 lowest ranked test sides so right now Bangladesh & Zimbabwe)

You cant blame the Irish lads from wanting to play at the higest level possible, right now there seems to be no will in the ICC to actually globalize the sport.

Poppo4

I dont blame them, I just wish there was a way Irish cricket could be at the highest level...which it wont be if we lose anymore players!

Crazy idea, British and Irish team? similar to the Lions set up? Give Irish players a chance for one test series a year? A diferent tour every year? Then when the ICB realise we're good enough we could go it alone?

bobbysands81

It says a bit about the individuals themselves that they no longer want to represent their country - not much you can do if they don't want to represent Ireland.

Helix

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It says a bit about the individuals themselves that they no longer want to represent their country - not much you can do if they don't want to represent Ireland.

its more that they want to play at the highest level, and they cant do that for ireland

D3PO

Poppo4 wrote: »

Crazy idea, British and Irish team? similar to the Lions set up?

Thats pretty much what we have right now.

I mean if your going to be good enough to play for the England & Wales team your going to be playing county cricket and will be eligible that way.

Its gotta be an all or nothing scenario, lets be realistic though there is no money to be made in Irish cricket so the ICC dont give a damn.

Didnt the ICC announce the onboarding of Keyna as a test playing nation back in 2003 ?

not surprisingly it never happened, just goes to show you how they couldnt care less in enhancing the sport aroudn the world

Poppo4

So the Irish Sports Council should do something about this...investment is needed, we need a home for cricket! Nothing major! Just somewhere everone will recognise as the centre for Irish cricket! A ground upto one day and test status! A stand for a thousand or so!

d'Oracle

Poppo4 wrote: »

So the Irish Sports Council should do something about this...investment is needed, we need a home for cricket!

With what money?

We have put out a few good cricket players, but Irish cricket doesnt generate money. ICC have no incentive to help us.

The government has no incentive (or money) to help us.

Untill Test cricket dies, we will remain as is.

Rotten, isnt it?

Poppo4

I thnk it's ridiculous that these athletes are being ignored, what about outside investment? We got Trap thanks to external investment, is there any rich Irish cricket lovers that want to see the sport prosper?

And also, has the Malahide situation just been canceled or is development still planned?

bobbysands81

Helix wrote: »

its more that they want to play at the highest level, and they cant do that for ireland

I understand that mate but it's not a valid argument in my opinion.

This is just a personal opinion but... you should only be able to play sport for a country that you're either born in or feel your from. That Ireland is not good enough in cricket is not reason enough for him to not play for Ireland.

For instance if Ed Joyce was born in ireland to English parents and felt he was somewhat English then he should be able to play for them... but he's from Bray and has no connection to England (and Wales), therefore he really should not be allowed to play for them.

D3PO

Poppo4 wrote: »

So the Irish Sports Council should do something about this...investment is needed, we need a home for cricket! Nothing major! Just somewhere everone will recognise as the centre for Irish cricket! A ground upto one day and test status! A stand for a thousand or so!

The ISC grants were down this year across the board. And besides that ISC investment will change nothing. Professional sports will never happen in Ireland regardless of the sport.

even if there was an International standard ODI pitch in this country you will still have your small crowds attending games.

Bums on seats and more importantly TV money is what will drive the ICC's agenda. Neither are something Ireland can or will provide regardless of the standard of our play

D3PO

bobbysands81 wrote: »

. That Ireland is not good enough in cricket is not reason enough for him to not play for Ireland.

.

well its not a decison based on ireland being good enough its a decision based on not being able to play for Ireland in that format of the game.

If Ireland were allowed to play test matches even if getting beaten by an innings and 500 runs each game I think you would find some if not all of these players would want to play for ireland.

they have no option to choose this though.

I mean look at rugby Portugal might be rubbish at it but they arent told by the IRB they can only play tag or sevens because there not to a particular standard. why should it be any different in cricket.

Poppo4

If there was high class opposition we'd get good crowds! A simple 1000seater would be full, we have massive communities of Indians and Pakistani people in Ireland, as well as SA's, Aussies and New Zealanders. Have a few of them over every year? Cricket fans would come from where ever to see their idols play on our own turf!

Marshy

D3PO wrote: »

Didnt the ICC announce the onboarding of Keyna as a test playing nation back in 2003 ?

not surprisingly it never happened, just goes to show you how they couldnt care less in enhancing the sport aroudn the world

Yeah, there was certainly talk of Kenya joining the Test ranks on the back of their reaching the semis of the WC in 2003. Just as well they didn't thought tbh, would've been quite rash in hindsight.

I think the situation with Bangladesh isn't going to help future attempts by associate nations trying to make the next step. They've basically been miles out of their depth at Test level despite occassionally performing very well in ODIs.

But I agree, something must be done to protect Irish Cricket. I'd support the idea of a 2nd Division of Test playing nations. This would probably include the likes of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe(*shudder) and ourselves along with maybe the bottom placed team from the Top 8. Although the chances of the top teams agreeing to that is extrememly unlikely.

Something is needed to shake up Test Cricket however. Popularity is dwindling, even in England as seen by the tiny crowd in Durham yesterday. More competitive matches would certainly help the problem somewhat.

D3PO

Poppo4 wrote: »

If there was high class opposition we'd get good crowds! A simple 1000seater would be full, we have massive communities of Indians and Pakistani people in Ireland, as well as SA's, Aussies and New Zealanders. Have a few of them over every year? Cricket fans would come from where ever to see their idols play on our own turf!

maybe at the beginning but how many of these people would keep attending to see one sided games and beside that point whos going to tender a bid for tv rights ?

the timing wouldnt work for the sub contenent and you wont have people viewing once sided afairs on TV in the middle of the night like you would see people staying up to watch the ashes for example.

if you dont have people watching you dont have people paying for advertisements, if you dont have that you dont have money. No money then you have no ICC support.

Until we get our own Stanford whos willing to invest rediculous money we wont progress.

D3PO

Marshy wrote: »

Yeah, there was certainly talk of Kenya joining the Test ranks on the back of their reaching the semis of the WC in 2003. Just as well they didn't thought tbh, would've been quite rash in hindsight.

I think the situation with Bangladesh isn't going to help future attempts by associate nations trying to make the next step. They've basically been miles out of their depth at Test level despite occassionally performing very well in ODIs.

But I agree, something must be done to protect Irish Cricket. I'd support the idea of a 2nd Division of Test playing nations. This would probably include the likes of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe(*shudder) and ourselves along with maybe the bottom placed team from the Top 8. Although the chances of the top teams agreeing to that is extrememly unlikely.

Something is needed to shake up Test Cricket however. Popularity is dwindling, even in England as seen by the tiny crowd in Durham yesterday. More competitive matches would certainly help the problem somewhat.

well what about a second test nation tier with

Ireland, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Keyna, and maybe some of the development squads like the England Lions and the likes ?

D3PO

Marshy wrote: »

I think the situation with Bangladesh isn't going to help future attempts by associate nations trying to make the next step. They've basically been miles out of their depth at Test level .

True but they got mighty close to shocking the Auzzies a while back.

I guess you could say the same about other sports like rugby I think France took somethig like 20 years to win a match in the then 5 nations look at them now though !!

Think New Zealand took a significant amount of time to establish themselves at test level aswell when they joined

Marshy

D3PO wrote: »

well its not a decison based on ireland being good enough its a decision based on not being able to play for Ireland in that format of the game.

If Ireland were allowed to play test matches even if getting beaten by an innings and 500 runs each game I think you would find some if not all of these players would want to play for ireland.

they have no option to choose this though.

I mean look at rugby Portugal might be rubbish at it but they arent told by the IRB they can only play tag or sevens because there not to a particular standard. why should it be any different in cricket.

I know what you're trying to say, but I disagree that Ireland should have an automatic right to play in Tests. It must be earned. As I mentioned above, the Bangladesh example is clear evidence that Test Cricket is being undermined by them playing against the best. Its questionable whether its benefiting anyone either as they don't seem to be making a meaningful improvement in that form of the game.

The comparison with Portugal isn't quite accurate either. If anything, they have a similar position in Rugby as we do in Cricket. They don't play matches against the top teams except in the WC and maybe the occasional other fixture.

D3PO

Marshy wrote: »

The comparison with Portugal isn't quite accurate either. If anything, they have a similar position in Rugby as we do in Cricket. They don't play matches against the top teams except in the WC and maybe the occasional other fixture.

So lets have a second tier of test playing nations then. Im not saying Ireland should be allowed play India and Australia all the time but let them play the format with the ability to occasionally play the top test teams. This 4 day Intercontinental cup doesnt tick the boxes so lets see some progress from the ICC.

Im sure a single test match occasionally built into touring teams schedules of England could help. I mean they do play warm up games against what could be percieved as sub standard opposion prior to most test series

Poppo4

Does everyone agree though that we need a centre of excellence for Irish Cricket? And that somewhere in the Fingal region would be perfect?

D3PO

Poppo4 wrote: »

Does everyone agree though that we need a centre of excellence for Irish Cricket? And that somewhere in the Fingal region would be perfect?

didnt the Irish Cricket Board send a group of players away to a development school of excellence last year in one of the top tier nations ?

Im sure I read that somewhere. I would think right now thats a better option to allow our promising players more exposure to better coaching (not saying the coaching here isnt good by the way), facilities etc for developing their game.

d'Oracle

Marshy wrote: »

The comparison with Portugal isn't quite accurate either. If anything, they have a similar position in Rugby as we do in Cricket. They don't play matches against the top teams except in the WC and maybe the occasional other fixture.

I would have said wholly inaccurate.

We are much closer to the pace in Cricket than Portugal are in rugby.
We are more like a USA in rugby terms.


I was reading about Sri Lanka getting status recently.
Apparently they played a lot of international First class games.

We dont really get much of that.
Maybe if we got some first class, say against MCC selections or England Lions or equivalent development teams or against test teams for warm-ups, we might get a look in with our own elite players.

Marshy

d'Oracle wrote: »

Maybe if we got some first class, say against MCC selections or England Lions or equivalent development teams or against test teams for warm-ups, we might get a look in with our own elite players.

Yeah thats true enough. Although the problem there would be scheduling, the top International sides play so much cricket these days that warm-up games seem to be becoming a thing of the past. They may only have 1 warm-up match before a Test Series now.

D3PO

Marshy wrote: »

Yeah thats true enough. Although the problem there would be scheduling, the top International sides play so much cricket these days that warm-up games seem to be becoming a thing of the past. They may only have 1 warm-up match before a Test Series now.

yes but the ICC can dictate things in a way that makes scheduling room if they wanted to, and thats the point they dont want to.

d'Oracle

One warm up match is enough.

Counties get loads of cricket.
What harm would it do?
A four dayer before the Ashes?

One First-class match for every tour to England.
Its better than we get now.
Might drum up a bit of the intrest that is floating around.

Poppo4

I agree, i think every little helps. If lads like Stirling see a future chance that Ireland will move on to bigger and better things i think they'd stay play for this nation.

d'Oracle

Poppo4 wrote: »

I agree, i think every little helps. If lads like Stirling see a future chance that Ireland will move on to bigger and better things i think they'd stay play for this nation.

Yeah.

Plus even if it doesnt work out like that, it will give them some extra experience of non-limited overs cricket.

So if they wind up declaring for England, they might actually get into the whites rather than playing in the ODI till they loose form like Joyce.

HonalD

So close..........................http://www.rte.ie/sport/cricket/2009/0516/ireland.html

djimi

D3PO wrote: »

well what about a second test nation tier with

Ireland, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Keyna, and maybe some of the development squads like the England Lions and the likes ?

I think this is the way to go tbh to bring the associate members closer to full test status. Its all well and good playing a handfull of ODIs and the Intercontinental Cup, but its not going to give us the experience needed to step up to full tests.

I feel a two tier system, with the top 8 nations (England, Australia, SA, India, Pakistan, WI, NZ, SL) in tier one, and Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Canada, Holland, Scotland, Kenya and someone like UAE or Namibia in the second tier. This could work on a two year rotation, with associate members being able to qualify for the second tier in a kind of promotion/relegation system. If the quality of the second tier improved sufficiently they could even introduce promotion relegation between tier 1 and tier 2, but I feel that would be a long way off.

If there were sufficient crossover between the tiers, so a tier 1 team had to play a three test series against a tier 2 team once a year or once every 18 months, then this should mean improvement for the associate members.