Dublin Congestion Charge

RATM

Interesting to see that John Gormley just said today that Dublin will get a Lord Mayor by next year and not 2011 as previously planned.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0513/1224246387781.html

I smell a rat. I reckon they want to bring in congestion charges to the city pretty soonish and Gormley wants to be seen to have had nothing to do with such an unpopular new tax on motorists. Hence the creation of a Mayor for Dublin ( who will be Chair of Dublin Transport Authority ) sooner than expected so the Greens don't get tarred with an unpopular congestion charge at the next general election.

In any case how do people feel about the possibility of a congestion charge? In some ways I can support it but absolutely not until there is adequate public transport and we seem to be moving away from the objective of late. I'm guessing its going to get rammed down our throats regardless of the failings of our public transport infrastructure, the government needs every cent it can lay its hands on at the moment and a €8-10 daily charge for motorists in the city would be one way of raising a fair bit of capital.

aliveandkicking

Now no, after Metro north and DART underground are open yes.

Aard

Why are the results hidden?

RATM

Aard wrote: »

Why are the results hidden?

Whoops, didn't mean to hide them, I thought the option for hiding them just meant you couldn't see them until after you had voted.

Mods can you change it so participants can see the results after they've voted, I can't seem to do it in the Edit function.

sdanseo

There just aren't enough alternatives for some people. Presuming the charge would be applied withing the canal ring, there are still areas there that aren't easily accessible from other areas. The existing public transport is overpriced and packed to the rafters already.

dereko1969

sdonn wrote: »

The existing public transport is overpriced and packed to the rafters already.

Where does this overpriced thing come from? Do you want free public transport? what price would you suggest and in what way is it currently overpriced?

NedNew

dereko1969 wrote: »

Where does this overpriced thing come from? Do you want free public transport? what price would you suggest and in what way is it currently overpriced?

Public Transport is overpriced when it is now more expensive to go by public transport to my work than it is to drive to work, even after taking the following into account:

Annual Tax-saver rebate on Iarnrod Eireann
Petrol, insurance & maintenance charges on the car

So, yes, public transport is overpriced - specifically trains. My own anecdotal evidence suggests many are moving to private car tranport from public transport due to the recent increases in public transport prices. Also there are rumours the IE are going to raise prices again in order to reduce their ever widening deficit. Smart.

MOH

dereko1969 wrote: »

Where does this overpriced thing come from? Do you want free public transport? what price would you suggest and in what way is it currently overpriced?

Well I'd like public transport that actually provides a reliable service and gets me where I'm going when it claims it will. If it's not doing that (which it's not) then it's overpriced.

manc

RATM wrote: »

Hence the creation of a Mayor for Dublin ( who will be Chair of Dublin Transport Authority ) sooner than expected so the Greens don't get tarred with an unpopular congestion charge at the next general election.

there is already a Lord Mayor of Dublin, the post will just change to be directly elected. If they wanted to bring in the charge it would be Dublin Council that brings it in not the Greens/govt.

Its fairly stupid to have a seperate election for this though, should be part of the local elections.

godtabh

Do what london did. Upgrade all public transport. Provide part&ride in routes into the city etc. Start charging. Make sure all monies raised by the congestion charge goes to PT only.

serfboard

Carrot & Stick.

Obviously people don't mind the current congestion, or are willing to put up with it because the alternative is so poor.

Congestion charging will not be enforced now while there are cutbacks in public transport.

paulm17781

kearnsr wrote: »

Do what london did. Upgrade all public transport. Provide part&ride in routes into the city etc. Start charging. Make sure all monies raised by the congestion charge goes to PT only.

While I'm in total agreement, how long before the ringfenced money is diverted? Until we have a some form of decent public transport system (including integrated ticketing) I just don't think this can work.

Cookie_Monster

I think it should be brought in. It'll derease traffic and increase bus reliability.

Then again I don't live or work in the CC so it won't affect me. If I did work in town I'd make sure I lived close enough to use PT or cycle. I can never undserstand people who will drive hours to work in traffic.

Will it be just rush hour or 24/7

paulm17781

Living in the city centre I'd love to see it but I don't think Dublin is ready for it. It would become another tax that we'd probably see no direct benefit from.

godtabh

paulm17781 wrote: »

While I'm in total agreement, how long before the ringfenced money is diverted? Until we have a some form of decent public transport system (including integrated ticketing) I just don't think this can work.

Forgot about integrated ticketing

A congestion charge shouldn't be brought into until rhetorical following are up and running

Metro North
Interconnector
Luas(current approved ones)
Metro West(possibley)
Proper bus service
Co ordinated park&ride

I also think an emission charge should be brought in as well

The emission charge can come in when ever(which I think might already) but the congestion charge should not be brought in until the rest is done

WicklowRacer

I was going to promote cycling as an option to avoid any congestion charge but after 20km in the rain this morning, it can be a truly miserable experience.

NewDubliner

NedNew wrote: »

Public Transport is overpriced when it is now more expensive to go by public transport to my work than it is to drive to work, even after taking the following into account:...Petrol, insurance & maintenance charges on the car

You've omitted parking, car-loan interest and depreciation.

Breezer

Something I haven't heard mentioned in relation to this: if this goes ahead, and the toll on the M50 remains, will it actually be possible to go through or around Dublin on national roads without paying some sort of toll?

dereko1969 wrote:

Where does this overpriced thing come from? Do you want free public transport? what price would you suggest and in what way is it currently overpriced?

In Frankfurt, you can buy a monthly travel pass for €72.90. This allows unlimited travel on 7 underground lines, 9 suburban rail lines including travel to the airport, 9 tram lines and all bus routes. In addition, after 7pm on weekdays, and all day Saturday, Sunday and public holidays, another adult, all of your own children, or up to three children in total can travel with you for free. A cheaper ticket (€58.30) is available if you don't travel before 9am on weekdays. Services are extremely frequent (5 minute intervals in the city centre train stations all day), run from 4am to 1am, and if they're more than a minute late you can see people beginning to check their watches.

Students are entitled to a free ticket every month that covers them (not the extra people) on all the above-mentioned services.

In Dublin, a city with the twice the population of Frankfurt, and with far greater sprawl, you can buy a monthly bus pass for €98. This allows unlimited travel for one person on all Dublin bus routes. There are other combinations too, but they're still very limited and much more expensive than Frankfurt's scheme.

That's where "this overpriced thing" comes from.

sdanseo

dereko1969 wrote: »

Where does this overpriced thing come from? Do you want free public transport? what price would you suggest and in what way is it currently overpriced?

When it's €70 for two people to FLY to cork, return and €120 for the train, I consider it overpriced.

NewDubliner

sdonn wrote: »

When it's €70 for two people to FLY to cork, return and €120 for the train, I consider it overpriced.

The train stations are both quite close to the cites, the airports are not, Have you factored in the taxi fares? And also the extra time you have to spend in the airport?

sdanseo

NewDubliner wrote: »

The train stations are both quite close to the cites, the airports are not, Have you factored in the taxi fares? And also the extra time you have to spend in the airport?

Well put it this way - I went with my Mam and we flew. €15 for the taxi to DUB and we were picked up in Cork, and the reverse. Still works out cheaper, and we spent maybe an hour in Dublin and 40-50 mins in Cork.

Carawaystick

Dereko, It would cost me a tenner to get to Dublin from my house, 2 for parking at the station and 8 for a return ticket. I live in Co. Dublin, 20 km from the City centre( Tara Station)

It's less than 6 return from Tipp town to Waterford. 74km


I could of course get the bus to the station instead of driving and parking, that would only cost 30 cents more.....

RATM

So most peopleh ere are up for a congestion charge it seems?

Forgive me for saying this but since when is paying VRT,VAT and then some more Vat, tolls and road tax desirable?
And since when is a tax on driving into the city your taxes paid for desirable?

I just cannot support a congestion charge until I see some public transport progress and as far as I can see we are in unprogress at the current moment.
Yet this new mototrist tax is bound to come in regardless...........

Breezer

NewDubliner wrote: »

The train stations are both quite close to the cites, the airports are not, Have you factored in the taxi fares? And also the extra time you have to spend in the airport?

Surely the lack of rail links to the airports, and the resulting long journey times, is yet another failing of our public transport system, not an argument in its favour?