Krav Maga instructor in challenge match

dlofnep

Some guy with 100lbs on some KM instructor challenges him.

Ass-whooping by instructor ensues.

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvoNUjMvxQs

j walsh

That was just brilliant john .

dlofnep

Nothingcompares

i dunno if i'd call that an ass whooping but credit where credit is due.

would i be correct in assuming the bigger guy had close to zero functional martial arts training?

dunkamania

I am not sure if there is any credit due here. The instructor was giving away alot of weight, but the other guy was seriously overweight, had zero gas tank, and zero skills. The fight was sloppy as hell.

arybvtcw0eolkf

All the instructors K.M. techniques went out the window for a display of some sh*t kickboxing skills.

I feel secure in saying that the K.M. instructor couldn't box eggs on a good day if thats his best.

.

cowzerp

Basically an below average "kickboxer" beat up an untrained slob!
if the krav dude was any good that would of been over in about 20 seconds..

average at best.

Hephaestus

Alicia Famous Starlight wrote: »

All the instructors K.M. techniques went out the window for a display of some sh*t kickboxing skills.

I feel secure in saying that the K.M. instructor couldn't box eggs on a good day if thats his best.

.

+ 1

where's the KM techniques

Bujinkan

+2
Nothing in that impressed me what so ever... I didn't see any KM!

j walsh

j walsh wrote: »

That was just brilliant john .

Lads don't get me wrong this was brilliant funny, not brilliant as in brilliant skills and i think thats what dlofnep mean't aswell.
Don't take it to serious lads its hilarious.

tallaght01

j walsh wrote: »

Don't take it to serious lads its hilarious.

You're always gonna get a bit of that once KM gets mentioned.

It was kickboxing, and he's a kickboxer. He also does KM, but there was no KM whatsoever there. The guy's balls were left untouched!!!!!!

Sean Quagmire

From comments on youtube to that video from his students they seem to think that it was a perfect example of picking an opponent appart.. my god that was just woefull and he owns a gym?

arybvtcw0eolkf

tallaght01 wrote: »

You're always gonna get a bit of that once KM gets mentioned.

It was kickboxing, and he's a kickboxer. He also does KM, but there was no KM whatsoever there. The guy's balls were left untouched!!!!!!

Only because the only half decent shot the instructor got at the student was at the end when the student dropped his guard completely.

I've little doubt that had that been on the street, the instructor would have been battered, overwhlemed by the heavier weight and 'farmer hooks from fatso, then someone would have broke it up.

Fatso would have walked away and told his bud's how he beat up a kickboxer/ K.M. instructor and the instructor would have made excuses that he took it easy on the idiot.

Loser's both of 'em.

tallaght01

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

From comments on youtube to that video from his students they seem to think that it was a perfect example of picking an opponent appart.. my god that was just woefull and he owns a gym?

They sound like kids. I HOPE they were kids!!! You know when you're a kid, your instructor is god. Maybe we should post the link to here :P

Alicia Famous Starlight wrote: »

Only because the only half decent shot the instructor got at the student was at the end when the student dropped his guard completely.

.

Or because it was sparring?

arybvtcw0eolkf

tallaght01 wrote: »

Or because it was sparring?

Ok lets concede it was sparing (just so we don't all have a pissing contest about it)..

THATS SPARRING :eek:

Totally uncontrolled & a complete lack of discipline by the instructor - both losers still.

.

tallaght01

Alicia Famous Starlight wrote: »

Ok lets concede it was sparing (just so we don't all have a pissing contest about it)..

THATS SPARRING :eek:

Totally uncontrolled & a complete lack of discipline by the instructor - both losers still.

.

Couldn't agree more. Though his credentials are surprisingly good:

http://budobeachparty.com/?p=384


But he DOES do celebrity self defence!! :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyUPF-2FCR0 go to 4:27

triv88

Alicia Famous Starlight wrote: »

Only because the only half decent shot the instructor got at the student was at the end when the student dropped his guard completely.

I've little doubt that had that been on the street, the instructor would have been battered, overwhlemed by the heavier weight and 'farmer hooks from fatso, then someone would have broke it up.

.

Truly? . The big guy seemed very out of shape and uncordinated ,he seemed pretty angry as well ,wonder what the story behind that was . Was the instructor not just going easy on him by picking off kicks which gassed the big guy very fast?

I would of thought that in a street fight, the smaller guy with his knowledge and conditioning would win 9 outa 10?

dunkamania

I dont see the big guying winning a street fight. No gas tank means the same thning in the street as it does in the gym

arybvtcw0eolkf

triv88 wrote: »

I would of thought that in a street fight, the smaller guy with his knowledge and conditioning would win 9 outa 10?

dunkamania wrote: »

I dont see the big guying winning a street fight. No gas tank means the same thning in the street as it does in the gym

Remember the TV show 'Catch Phrase' - "Say what you see, not what you think you see"..

Alicia Famous Starlight wrote: »

I've little doubt that had that been on the street, the instructor would have been battered, overwhlemed by the heavier weight and 'farmer hooks from fatso, then someone would have broke it up.

Fatso would have walked away and told his bud's how he beat up a kickboxer/ K.M. instructor and the instructor would have made excuses that he took it easy on the idiot.

Loser's both of 'em.

And I'd safely say it would have been broken up when fatlad got the instructors back (then hadn't a clue what to do - neither of 'em) and FatLad would have thought mighty of himself!.

Like I said, both losers for display.

.

triv88

Ok i understand but what could the instructor have done differently in the "fight". The big guy challenged him and was doing his best to hurt him as bad as he could. The instructor imo, never had that intention and played defensive. I am pretty certain he knew that by kicking him repeatedly he would quit early which he did?

The instructor thought this guy alot of lessons which the big guy did not repsect or appreciate at the time?

Thery were both idiots but imo the big guy was more of an idiot for challenging his trainer (someone that is trying to help him) by bascially saying !im' unfit ,never trained but i will still knock you out

dunkamania

I am impressed with your ability to read the instructor's mind.

104494431

I was told that some Krav Maga guy recently went into Rigan Machado's BJJ gym in the US and told him that BJJ was a load of a crap and challenged him to a match. I believe it didn't end well for the KM guy.

BigDuffman

For a KM instructor that was a shocking display. If that slob had a bit more puff in the tank and had any training whatsoever, could of really embarassed the instructor.

For a KM instructor the lack of technique was odd

Jason Mc

never did krav maga. Is there much sparring or rolling in the class?

Roper

I can't speak for Krav Maga really but I think it's like anything. It depends on where you go and really varies club to club. As far as I know in Ireland there's a pretty poor standard but one of my guys speaks really highly of the lad who has the place in Donabate whose name escapes me now. Lots of "alive" drills there apparently.

Tell you what though I've yet to see anything that hasn't been kept honest by competition, and I think that's where stuff like this falls down.

tallaght01

Jason Mc wrote: »

never did krav maga. Is there much sparring or rolling in the class?

The sparring in KM is very intense. So, in a lot of clubs you don't start sparring until you're doing it about a year.

But there's plenty of rolling and grappling involved. Quit a bit of multiple opponent sparring stuff too. But no competitions. I guess in KM, your techniques sometimes go out the window a bit more, because of the pressure of sparring/live drills. That's part of the reason for them. KM guys argue that you should learn how to cope when your techniques aren't working. It also teaches you to recognise why your techniques aren't working under stress.

When i do Wing Chun, for example, the instructor afterwards will criticise technique as his first concern. But the KM instructors tend to be a little bit more tolerant if you've boxed your way out of trouble, and the technique wasn't so good. And I guess that's because guys in Wing chun are training for comps, where you don't score if you're not using WC techniques. Whereas in krav, no one is thinking about scores.

I don't know Aidan Carroll out in Donabate, but Robert Brednaski holds a KM class in Drimnagh a few nights a week. i trained with them when i was home in ireland a few months ago. They do some really intense live drills and some seriously hard sparring. I used to walk away from there black and blue every week. But he trains some really good fighters.

Millionaire

Listen, take it from me..

first off, any "save the world" political things is of no interest or relevance to me, personally or as regards krav maga, israel or arabs, I have no opinion either way on it.

I do want to set a few truths straight about Krav Maga & no I did not watch the video on this thread.

Krav Maga 80% of it, (now note its just punches kicks & strikes etc, a right hook is a right hook & there are 2 variations of all strikes.. on an individual basis your right hook is good or bad + mid - hard full out contact which requires safety gear. its good to do this "sparring" as in kickboxing, thai, boxing, for practice. Then for self defense it got to be done, full on, nearly all moves go out the window then. so you do both).

Now 80% of Krav Maga maybe 90% especially the more popular organizations is ****e, because it is not trained in the above manner. I ve trained & been through it all first hand, (luckily as some of you know, I many years kick boxing before KM, & now having learn more insight, & I do not mean to sound arrogant, as I am not.. most of KM is BS marketing, & how it its trained it is pussy. Wrapping hands to do KM... for what?? (to sell more hand wraps thats why).

Regarding the I.D.F. this is fact, most which 90% or more IDF do not learn Krav Maga. Krav Maga was offered as a 1 week course P.T. end of things.. no different than say Irish Army going Canoeing on the Shannon. (give soldiers something different to do for week, keep them interested, & bit of variety idea..activity training). I spoke to many IDF regular soldiers in Israel 1st time I was there, some never even heard of KM.. or answer e.g. "Oh ..yeah.. that.. yeah, I was sent on some sort of karate thing course of a week last year by army.. yeah...I do not really remember, sort of karate stuff, I m not that interested in it, no choice officer sent us, I work as a truck driver, I am not in a "fighting" unit"

There are for simplicity sake, lets say SAS, Irish Ranger Wing, elite units, IDF have about 10 separate, totally separate selection, operate separate, some are under Border Police command & not IDF, but are so highly trained, the IDF use them, if a mission fits their skills. (Yaman, Yamas are examples)
Sayaret Units there is several most elite (how that is determined I do not know, but I do know 99/100 fail basic selection for Sayeret Duvdevan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayeret_Duvdevan
Another Sayaret is like maritime...i.e. Navy Seal etc.. & there are other units.

Now these units as I personally know & trained when they come here, by people who many years active in Yaman (you have to have battle special forces experience in "normal" SF before one can apply for Yaman.. so SAS level experience needed before you apply for Yamam, thank you kindly) & later became KM trained for Yaman, & currently since dude is has finished his service, is only finished up not serving in military person (suppose civilian he is now) no one else, only this dude, is allowed to do this, still trains the
Sayeret Duvdevan Unit (& others, I think the Sayeret 13, plus cops etc)
in Krav Maga (his youtube.com is below) .

The other dude served many years in Duvdevan & now is in a "normal" (my words) Special Forces Anti Terror & Commands an elite Paratroop Unit. He learned KM in intensive training in the Duvdevan unit.. & not really a martial arts guy outside of what was needed to be learned as a just in case "back up" ie krav maga. Training was basic, like Muay Thai with dirty strikes, & full contact, he told me broken noses daily, 40% of those selected the 1/100 failed the training for Dudevan due to injuries sustained in what is the real krav maga they learn. E.g. run with unit in combat gear.. run to training hall, everyone on heavy bag strikes full out for up to 30 mins, then drills & all out fighting.. often trainers beating on trainees fighting each other.
Told me simple, stuff, more aggression, do not give up training...

Note this... I asked him questions more on KM, & he got a bit bored, as if I should know better. And said as he pointed to semi auto pistol in holster..."thats the krav maga"... I asked again.. said"Listen... KM is just a back up, that colt 45 is krav maga we use, actually the M16 is the KM, the pistol is usually a back up. Its not a sport, soldiers shoot!!!"

The old guy featured on Human Weapon Denis Hannover, is also the real deal, & he stopped using work Krav Maga (google him) for his method, as all these BS'ers were coming on the scene, who had no real experience of fighting. (Denis Hannover at 40+ years old, he is a kyoshinkai guy & JuJitsu too... 40+ fought & defeat in 1970s the USA favourite, to win Mas Oyama annual Knock Down fight in Japan).

Itay Gil who I learned from is a 7th Dan (6th Dan maybe) in Israeli style of Japanese JuJitsu, & Judo Black Belt & did 100 man Kyoshinkai challenge & Muay Thai, & learned MMA & Grappling from Chris Dolman in Holland (He told me Dolman threw him so hard, he was not able to get off matt for 1 hour & he is tough.. muay thai kicked me so hard like a iron bar, I muay thai kick him back just as hard & Laughed. Later confessed no pain nerves in one leg re one of times he got shot in upper leg) . :eek:

Itay said similar to what he said at start of Human Weapon.I love martial arts all my life but for real life only 6% of it works.

He was head of KM training for IDF too, & told me most IDF Krav Maga Instructors who train the special units, are life long martial artists since teen years or younger & have all passed selection for & served in the Special Units like I say above & all have seem action. (taken names & numbers too. not me cup of tea that now. I am a pacifist. just putting things straight here.).

Think of this.. my buddy above.. (This pistol is KM) see photos on my facebook profile. Soldiers Shoot... Not a sport. (meaning KM is only a tiny part & not too important compared to other skills. They spent 6 hours a day dry drilling hand guns for 6 months. 2-4 hours a day KM for 6 months, usually 2 hours, due to injury level he said. (I think they have toned down the KM to reduce loosing good 1/100 who qualify, soldiers, over injury caused by a not too important skill.)

I tell anyone.. you would be better off going to learn Muay Thai (I am leaving MMA out of this, its a top combat sport, but only for reasons, we do not want to be going to ground on the street voluntarily, how we train is how we fight in street,, 9/10 you ll get a boot in the head. happened me, & I admit, I have done it to others.. who deserved it).

So Better off learning Muay Thai or Kick Boxing Boxing... get a few Geoff Thompson DVDs, Fence, Real Punching Vol 1, 3 Second fighter, & a few carl cestari dvds... or just read & train dirty shots on www.gutterfighting.org
In fact on street open hand usually better, as if you train it you wont break your hand/wrist, & a good powerful slap shot to top of head, will ring a lads bell, punch top of his noggin either little happens or you injure hand.


90% of Krav Maga, trading off Special Forces (which is not relevant to use civilian peoples self defense) is pure BS. (This Gun is real Krav Maga = Special Forces way) . The local bouncer who does boxing probably give you more relevant info re street thugs self defence.

90% of krav maga is trained fun, good work out, (cool... nothing wrong there... just tell the truth, stop hiding behind myth of Special forces, & ask them for a spar 3 rounds boxing 70% contact.. fair... I guarantee you, a 1 years boxing etc ask 90% of the "mislead" KM dudes for 3 rounds.. you will beat the bollocks out of them in ring. well many of them.

I was looking at Krav Maga Darren Levine to Black Belt Book, & his blue or brown belt, defense against a Left Right boxing style attack is a joke... it would get you killed in ring, never mind street... his move is like a car wiper... I was told & I believe them, in 80s when he came to learn KM in Israel, he used to fake an injury, on any drills with contact. (The dudes a Lawyer... I doubt he has ever been in a school yard scrap. )
That is from the pros who I got that... I seen enough of KM around the world & took alot of time, to think & reflect, & I believe what I hear.

If your going to Israel check out Itay Gil
http://www.protect-usa.com

http://www.youtube.com/user/itaygil

(I went to Israel to IKMA for a month... when I met Itay Gil, & I was disappointed with the IKMA which same as IKMF anyway & did not overly enjoy it, though I learned some stuff etc.. the expense do not waste it, go to Itay or he got his right hand dude who got a good site Moshe Katz
http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/

good web site that.. some pages you find via links not on menu with excellent stuff. You will read about how Moshe trained under Itay... no fast food weekend courses... 4 or 5 years of KM with sort of Muay Thai & grappling.. they got the foundations in place.. hard full on training..

I am sure there is others in Israel good too, but I do not know who, I do know as I did it, give the IKMA, IKMF, and esp American KM a miss. (commando KM... he spoofed up a big story... however he is a judo BB trained in Kodokan, & JJ Black belt too, & was a PE instructor in IDF.. all the rest is spoof. I got his DVDs, & while I am not a grappler myself & make no claim I could "roll" with a grappler, I d tap out in seconds. If commando KM left the BS story out... he had a in general ok system there.. knife crap, but knife odds v bad anyway.. "stabbers do not show.. showers do not stab" )


If you do not like his style, I d say save your money, go to Thailand do Muay Thai & take weekends off & have fun. (israel is not overly fun on the night life)



If you look at Human Weapon. Itay Gil he takes them to the army combat training place, you may notice its not much different than Muay Thai.. you see all the dudes geared up.. check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/user/itaygil


The check "Fight Quest" find it on youtube.com (forget the woman km instructor ranting.. more bs) look at the IDF school, now "Jimmy" the Fight Quest Guy, whats the KM re learns look like... Muay Thai... full contact, the IDF dudes bust him with leg kicks.

Ran Nakesh the head KM instructor is also a professional boxer (boxed in march 09 in philladelphia USA, maybe not a champ, but its professional boxer.. he also was runner up Silver or Bronze in Amateur World Muay Thai championships held in Thailand each year, back 7 or 8 years ago.... KM is just the "add on", again like a black & decker drill.. KM is just a different drill bit.. the foundation is what counts.

I still teach Itay Gil system Tactical Krav Maga, I scale it down even more.

I guess it sort of what I teach looks like Mugendo Kick Boxing which is 25 years now for me I m at it.. (I still suck at it lol) , with Muay Thai element these days & an odd toe kick Savate style, with Geoff Thompson & a bit of stuff from www.gutterfighting.com or another good guy is www.urbancombatives.com Lee Morrison.. all more or less the same combatives.

And remember.. before I get.. OH this KM... MY KM guy shot a duck once (ah. he had an ND,& bang scared him more than duck) , I learn in 2 hours how to kill with my bare hands...

Tapping each other on the head, is heavy duty sparring.. yes, whatever makes you happy... its your ass not mine.

The best style/technique (for street self defense, aside from run like hell) is the thing you do when it happens, you get a violent thug attacking you, you blink ( a natural reaction) & when you open your eye, if thug is on his back out for the count... whatever you did... worked... now run in case he gets up again. Thats the best style/technique...

What is it? How the hell do I know... I am not a crystal ball future teller... I do not know if you get attacked.. how its going to happen for you... nor for me. ( I do know quite a few times, in last few years in Ireland, re hanging out late night ****e holes, I blinked a few times, & dude was not hitting me any more after my blink, so I got out of there fast. I think a good wallop hit his head.. but I did not see what.. I blinked... but year put in training, maybe an ol thump became instinctual to me... )

Catch me on Facebook.com always happy to link up with old board buddies.

Boston

I don't think the instructor was going easy or demonstrating anything. When the fight was over and the heavy lad has dropped his guard the instructor is clearly seen striking him again. Furthermore when the heavy lad has removed one glove the instructor is clearly seen gearing up to continue the fight. He wants the continue. They are both complete tools, but the instructor is worse as he's the one whose meant to have some cop on.

Millionaire

If its a challenge, what they wearing gloves for & rules...

bite his nose off & be done with it.

A famous NYC self defense instructor ex WWII marine who hand one of 1st reality based self defense schools ever opened in 1950s, used to get a lot of smart asses come into challenge him... his gym was up steep steps, & door in at top of steps.

Used to keep a lead pipe behind the door, so when the smart asses come in, mouthing off, about challenges.. he good "yeah yeah gimme a minute.. " while placing challenger near door, whip out the lead pipe & beat the "challenger"over the head all the way down the stair & out onto the side walk, where he give them a good extra belt of the lead pipe...

"What ya saying this martial art is called ya master off? Oh ok. I just teach self defense" as he cracked them another pipe on the head.

Name was Charlie Nelson & he taught until he was 85.. was combatives instructor in US Marines since early 1930s.. then off to fight the Japs etc..

I think thats a fairly good way of dealing with challenges!
cut to the chase!

In old testament in Bible God said
" He who uses deception in Battle, will always win the war"

You cannot second guess the man above! So use his wisdom!

dlofnep

Good post Millionaire.

tallaght01

Millionaire, I may have misunderstood you. BUt I see your points as being:

1) You shouldn't do KM because special forces don't do it.
2) Within the IDF, only special forces really do it.
3) There's no sparring in KM


Now, I do KM, and am quite used to the bias on this forum. I don't think you're an arrogant man, as you seem to have a genuine belief based on personal experience. I respect that. I used to do Kenpo and didn't think much of it. But that doesn't mean it was rubbish. It just wasn't for me.

I agree that special forces use is no reason to do KM. Various special units etc do use KM. Fair enough, if I was in one, I'd be reaching for my holster before I'd be scrapping anyone. That doesn't make it useless.

But I just don't know why you think it's so different from other martial arts. Basically, you learn your combatives. You learn some techniques, and you do some hard sparring.
Now, i may have missed something, but that's what I've done/seen done in most martial arts.

I suspect your experience of KM has been in "prefix" KM (ie combat KM, Urban KM, Tactical KM etc). They aren't KM, any more than Combat TKD would be TKD.

The IKMF syllabus doesn't let you get past your 3rd grade without sparring 2 opponents at once. Most martial arts don't do that until black belt. That's really an aside, though. I'm just trying to point out that there is sparring in KM. But i accept that the prefix KM schools don't always spar.

The sparring in KM is hard. It's harder than I ever did in Kenpo, and it's harder than the sparring I do/the senior students do in my wing chun class. I'm a doctor, and I genuinely thought I had broken my arm the last time I sparred in KM. I trained with a fantastic club in Drimnagh when I was home in Ireland last january. I used to come back to my parents house black+blue after training. I'm 31 years old and have really chilled parents, but my ma wanted me to stop training because I was getting hurt so much!

There's a huge prejudice against KM from other martial artists. That's fine. I'm a big boy. I've done enough emergency medicine to know that boxers are forever breaking their hands fighting/bouncing on saturday nights (there's even a fracture called a boxers fracture because it's the one boxers get over and over again when they fight with no gloves).
MMA is fine. Not my cup of tea. But lets not delude ourselves into thinking it represents what happens on the street. No one in an MMA quadrangle can kick you in the scrote or stamp on the back of your head.

What I'm trying to say is that we can argue about what's effective. But none of us is an expert on what's effective. My mate is a champion boxer, and batterd 3 guys who tried to mug him. Another mate is probably a better boxer, and got knocked flat out by a drunk in a bar. Another old friend of mine was an Irish champ in shotokan and got his head kicked in by some skanger in town. Doesn't mean they're all worthless arts. I know very little about fighting, but I reckon I know as much as anyone else here does! And I reckon there's lots of other factors at play. If I was a betting man, I'd always put my money on the guy who can hit hard and fast, regardless of his background.

I don't know if KM is going to protect me if I get into a rumble. It's not really the reason I do it. But it's not much different from what other martial artists do. People don't like change, and they feel threatened by it.

But it's here to stay. And it's as legitimate as MMA, BJJ, boxing, Judo or ballet.

--amadeus--

Excellent post.

cardav

Hi Tallaght01,

Excellent post. I do KM in Cork and have to agree with all you say (especially the KM bashing). I do it because it is really good for conditioning and fitness and also for me, strength training and confidence. I firmly believe I have a very limited attention span so the dynamic training, sparring and live drills keep me really interested.

Tbh I feel that there is a discipline to suit everyone. It's just a question of trying different ones to discover what you like. Personally I like KM and I'm a bit tired of the bashing it receives on this forum. Each to their own I say.

Caroline

tallaght01

cardav wrote: »

. I firmly believe I have a very limited attention span

join the gang :P

Maybe us KMers all have ADHD

Nothingcompares

I've done my fair share of Krav Maga bashing online and in person but I'm certainly willing to admit that not everything that trades under the "Krav Maga" tag is the same thing. There certainly is a possibility that there are people training in clubs/schools/crack comanado dojos that implement techniques that are high percentage and realistic in a "alive training" environment.

Obviously the primary difference between (good) Krav Maga and alive, functional martial arts like MMA, boxing, muay thai, kickboxing, bjj, judo, wrestling (not pro rovert ) is that one adopts a sporting paradigm and the other doesn't.

Now we can take it as a given that I'm an advocate for the sporting way of learning activities and Mark Leonard's article in the Irish Fighter probably gives the best reasoning for this (I can summon a reference for that if anyone needs it). I might assume tallaght01 prefers the alternative method (let's call it combatives for want of a better word).

A rational person may say it's horses for courses and simply personal preference and dependent on your goals/interests. Therefore they're an equal but different answer to the same question. Others may argue that combatives and sports are not related at all and shouldn't be discussed in the same context.

However, at the end of the day I'm also interested in which method is the most intelligent way of training. When someone tells me "we train so hard in my club that black eyes and busted mouth aren't uncommon, even one time I was fearful that my arm was broken I got hit so hard" it doesn't instill in me a sense of awe, rather, that tells me that person is probably training in a unintelligent manner.

Now I've dabbled in sports training for a number of years and I've seen very few black eyes/busted chops/broken limbs in the training hall. What does this tell you about the methods involved(if anything)? Maybe someone with more experience of MMA than me might say the above is common (it would be in competition).

tallaght01

Nothingcompares wrote: »

When someone tells me "we train so hard in my club that black eyes and busted mouth aren't uncommon, even one time I was fearful that my arm was broken I got hit so hard" it doesn't instill in me a sense of awe, rather, that tells me that person is probably training in a unintelligent manner.

.

I never said busted anythings are common, and I sure as hell wasn't trying to instill a sense of awe into you!!!! I don't walk around like a cripple. But there are bruises. That was in response to some guy talking about us "tipping" each other when we fight. My friends who box, in particular, get similarly common bruises/bumps. They get less common with conditioning.

But the point was simple...that we spar, and we spar hard. I don't know what intelligence is, in terms of fighting. But I know coming out of a training session with soft tissue in bumps and bruises isn't unique to KM.

cardav

Have to agree with you Tallaght01. I have trained in karate and TKD and saw more injuries in those than KM. We also spar with contact, do live drills, multiple attacker yadda yadda yadda but in the end of the day its all about control and awareness.

I know of students in TKD who have wrecked knees and broken ribs. We've never had any injuries like that. Bruises yes, injuries no.

Have you done any grading with KM yet?

tallaght01

yea I've graded to P2. I was hoping to do P3 in August, but I'm going to be out of action with a nasty back injury for the next 8 weeks I reckon. So, i think it will be next december before I have to spar 2 people at once in my grading :pac:

The back injury was a jogging injury, btw. Nothing to do with KM :P

Millionaire

Hi
Apologies in delay in reply. Hey.... I am on the KM "side" of this! LOL!

Oh No!!! go back to posts 4 - 6 years ago there was a full on Civil War on here
something like Krav Maga Vs MMA Combat Sports..

It was worse the Collins & Dev... parting of the ways!!!!

Actually I am Krav Maga instructor... did certifications under IKMA ( who I long pass on from.. 2000 E a year to be certified. thats is the original KM assoc & IKMF broke away Eyal, as IKMA is run like a committee like a SITPU trade union meeting. IKMA never grew much more than Netanya... Eyal IKMF was a business minded guy... got out there & sold himself, & indeed schooled the Yanks American KM (jay lopez stuff) along too, then there was a big row..).

Long story short, via just been right place right time, I got trained & then instructor in Krav Maga as per Itay Gil, www.protect-usa.com he was 9 years operation in Yaman (see their cops really, so they used KM as one function was "extraction" as in heavy criminals barricades themselves in somewhere with hostages, to dangerous to go shooting, so hand to hand was done. Itay still trains Sayareth Duvdevan, (sp? google them) & 13 too (maritime anti terrorists unit... seals etc)... & Israeli cops.
see his stuff on www.youtube.com/itaygil

Its just a name Tactical Krav Maga, its very simple, all is tested out, full on.
there is not much technique, & within reason of safety, we aim for live full contact non compliant attacker drills... (easy on head contact) it all goes out the window the techniques then anyway...

This is what is taught to the Special Units.. our curriculum is 90% same. only the special units in IDF of course, since they get paid to do it, go full blast, & at much more serious pace.

example... run 30 mins with unit. Work heavy bags full out up to 30 mins. drills with pads or all out fighting with contact while trainers beat the crap out of the Special Forces dudes. 1/100 get selected for Dudevan unit, our shooting instructor was in Dudevan, you must learn to shoot to be a TKM instructor.. (combat shooting, not target sport). He now commands an special paratroop unit. re "The Gun is the KM"

see http://www.youtube.com/kravmagathailand

I got more stuff to put up... but check out the TKM Seminar clip you can see how its done...

Questions asked

Millionaire, I may have misunderstood you. BUt I see your points as being:

1) You shouldn't do KM because special forces don't do it.
No, do what you enjoy. KM mainly from American California has been hyped up to the max, with this special forces stuff... Dudevan do 2 hours a day 4 - 6 months KM... then a few days a month to top up.
Yet they do 6 hours a day on dry drilling pistol training..

Just & I been through the whole KM thing from start to finish, I was lucky to meet people who introduced me to Itay & others, & we get them over to Thailand to do seminars etc.. who teach the Special Forces & they all served in the SF units. Most of the IDF SF KM instructors are life long martial artists anyway... before they ever learned KM.

I think ... no I know... some people believe that doing KM due to special forces thing.. its like a magic bullet (excuse pun)... look at the sexy KM from america... that crap would get you killed in the street.

2) Within the IDF, only special forces really do it.

To any extent...to give simple answer... Yes.
Regular troops do a day or 2 of it. some troops do none. Some do a bit extra as an additional activity more for PT dept. The real hard stuff the special units guys do.. & its only a small % of training time. used to be 4 hours for 6 months (approx) but 40% injury rate from KM causing 40% of the 1/100 who passed selection to fail the course due to too extreme KM training. so I now its scaled down a bit... they were loosing too many good SF guys over kM injuries... which most will probably never use in combat (Yaman & dudevan perhaps being exceptions. google much info.. will point why I say re those 2 units.)

3) There's no sparring in KM
Some KM yes there is no sparring. Some KM does ok sparring. Sparring is good to learn... (right now my sparring is ****e to be honest) , but remember FIGHT is not Spar... so Spar to get balls up... FIGHT = 1 min all out non stop.. bit like brit paras so in milling.

We get beginners doing 1 minute full out, (head contact we ban, but it happens anyway... all out people loose it a bit) after day 1 of seminars we do (all geared up etc)... its all to develop grit, mental attitude, win, as opposed to techniques.

I m 25 years in kick boxing, & when I do the 1 minute all out, we do 2 x 3 sets for everyone, I find by own nice sparring kick boxing full contact is out the window.

Then we do the same all out for baton, baseball bat, knife attacks, but its full out. Gun removals once taught & learn air soft glock replica high power BB... ouch man... & you move very fast when that rubber pistol is replaced with the BB. everyone must line up execution style & get shot once to feel the sting of those air soft high power gas BB guns. ok not fatal but I do not like it!!

KM is fine.. just I think the marketing from USA & I was no different when I started to learn in 2003 I think in Dublin... I believed KM was a magic bullet & I had 19 years full contact kick boxing behind me, its a good system, but its not as "deadly" as punted to be...

I get a pain in my bollocks with people coming in with the notion to learn, they all want to learn it in an hour too... ask them to put in 6 good months of hard work... learn to box... get get launch pad... build it up... na... they want the rambo stuff... shame.

Plus it got off to similar marketing in Ireland, be a killer in 2 1/2 minutes sort of stuff commando.. & all the MMA & Muay Thai lads challenged that.. & rightly so. Me.. I had the kickboxing anyway, but I did no see wood for the trees... KM is good... but its HOW YOU TRAIN NOT WHAT... is a good 80% rule of thumb...

Best of Luck
M

dunkamania

You must be getting paid by the word

Millionaire

dunkamania wrote: »

You must be getting paid by the word

Oh errrr aye!!! Yon seminar there 21- 27 June Thailand... aye.. well err.. anyone want to buy a ticket! LOL!...

Seriously, people on here long time.. pull up my posts from 2004- 2006 & sure I was saying same things as the lads are now about KM. & all the arguing & shouting.. it was like the Kings Inn play barrister or something...

Its all there in the archives..

Its true what I say more or less.

But sure its the same with any style... its how its trained etc...

I m trying to make people see, look I been around that mountain 36 times, its good, but make the ones you see lulled in false sense of security & maybe try something stupid on street instead of running away... & they get hurt bad.. KM is guilty of that false sense of security for sure.

(its the marketing from the corporate HQs is the problem)..