Airport police, what power?

saudek

Hi there,

I was explaining in the aviation forum, how an airport police officer gave out to me cause I was taking photographs of planes. (I was in the viewing area, outside the fence obviously)
He told me it is against the law, and that I need to stop taking photos.

Well, this time I left straight away, but can airport police really tell me to stop shooting? Could they seize my camera, throw me out of the airport area? do they have power just outside the fence?

by the way, if anybody has a clue about the law I broke I would be grateful if you shared with us.

Thank you.
Kevin.

ste88m

saudek wrote: »

Hi there,

I was explaining in the aviation forum, how an airport police officer gave out to me cause I was taking photographs of planes. (I was in the viewing area, outside the fence obviously)
He told me it is against the law, and that I need to stop taking photos.

Nothing illegal with this..

Well, this time I left straight away, but can airport police really tell me to stop shooting? Could they seize my camera, throw me out of the airport area? do they have power just outside the fence?

Their jurisdiction extends outside the fence & includes the area immediately surrounding the airport. There's nothing illegal with taking photos once your outside the boundary fence. I don't think they even have the powers to sieze anything, but they can remove you from the area, with reason.

Just to point out, I'm not in the A.P & I could be wrong.

Airport Police Powers have already been discussed at length in this forum. I'm sure if you go through the pages you'll find them.

Powers of authorised officers at aerodromes. 33. —(1) An authorised officer, in the interest of the proper operation, or the security or safety, of an aerodrome, or the security or safety of persons, aircraft or other property thereon, may do all or any of the following things—
[GA]( a ) stop, detain for such time as is reasonably necessary for the exercise of any of his powers under this section, and search any person or vehicle on an aerodrome;
[GA]( b ) require any person on an aerodrome to—
[GA](i) give his name and address and to produce other evidence of his identity;
[GA](ii) state the purpose of his being on the aerodrome;
[GA](iii) account for any baggage or other property which may be in his possession;
[GA]( c ) order any person
[GA](i) who refuses to give his name or address, or to produce other evidence of his identity, or
[GA](ii) who refuses to state the purpose of his being on the aerodrome, or
[GA](iii) who refuses to account for any baggage or other property in his possession, or
[GA](iv) who gives a name or address or states a purpose of his being on the aerodrome which is known, or is reasonably suspected, by the authorised officer to be false or fictitious, or
[GA](v) whom he knows not to have, or whom he reasonably suspects of not having, a lawful reason for being on the aerodrome,
[GA]to leave the aerodrome, or any part thereof, or he may remove such person from the aerodrome, or any part thereof, or he may arrest that person without warrant,
[GA]( d ) arrest without warrant any person- 4
[GA](i) who assaults, or whom he reasonably suspects to have assaulted, another person on an aerodrome, or
[GA](ii) whom he knows to have, or whom he reasonably suspects of having contravened section 12 or 19, or
[GA](iii) whom he knows to have, or reasonably suspects of having, a stolen article in his possession.
[GA](2) Where an authorised officer, who is not a member of the Garda Síochána, arrests a person under this section, he shall, forthwith, deliver such person into the custody of a member of the Garda Síochána to be dealt with in accordance with law.
[GA](3) Where an authorised officer arrests a person pursuant to the powers conferred on him by subsection (1) (d) (iii), he may retain in his possession any article which he knows to have been, or reasonably suspects of having been, stolen until it has been established whether or not the article was stolen.
[GA](4) A person who was ordered by an authorised officer to leave an aerodrome or part of an aerodrome, or who was removed from an aerodrome or part of an aerodrome by an authorised officer, shall not, on the same day, without the permission of an authorised officer, return to the aerodrome or the part of the aerodrome which he was ordered to leave, or from which he was removed, as the case may be.
[GA](5) Any person who obstructs or impedes an authorised officer in the exercise of any of the powers conferred on him by this section, or who fails to comply with any lawful requirement of an authorised officer under this section, shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA](6) In this section, "authorised officer" has the same meaning as in section 15 of the Act of 1950 (as amended by this Act).

Alpha Papa

The APO i can only presume was giving you lawful direction to you from which they our entitled to do listed below. This is of course presuming you where on either the perimeter/approach to an aerodrome, airport lands or lands belonging to the Minister of Transport.


Prohibited Acts (General)

S.I. No. 425/1994:

AIRPORT BYE-LAWS, 1994.

(21) monitoring air traffic control, or airport or airline operational frequencies in the State, with radio receiving or recording equipment or using television cameras or other photographic equipment the use of which in the opinion of Aer Rianta is likely to be contrary to the interests of security;

Alpha Papa

Alpha Papa wrote: »

The APO i can only presume was giving you lawful direction to you from which they our entitled to do listed below. This is of course presuming you where on either the perimeter/approach to an aerodrome, airport lands or lands belonging to the Minister of Transport.


Prohibited Acts (General)

S.I. No. 425/1994:

AIRPORT BYE-LAWS, 1994.

(21) monitoring air traffic control, or airport or airline operational frequencies in the State, with radio receiving or recording equipment or using television cameras or other photographic equipment the use of which in the opinion of Aer Rianta is likely to be contrary to the interests of security;

So by the sounds of things it was an over zealous airport police man. God bless them that they have nothing better to do than move on somebody taking photographs.

Alpha Papa

Dont know man, dont know anything about SNN or its layout so no point me pretenting i know bout that airport. But i presume if they got a call from ATC there obviously had a genuine concern about this situation.

On seperate note each of the three state airports have taking a serious approach to issues of person operating along its perimeters beacuase of concerns of possibility of them using lasers. So this is possibly why the APFS in SNN are taken such pro active approach to moving person on who are operating along the airport boundaries.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0104/airport.html


I am not saying that you where in pocession of a laser or where causing hazard to the aerodrome and/or navigation to a aircraft.

deadwood

You're lucky you weren't in Greece!

donvito99

saudek wrote: »

but can airport police really tell me to stop shooting?

That could be interpreted differently!:p

Alpha Papa

deadwood wrote: »

You're lucky you weren't in Greece!

Silly question but why Greece?

saudek

That could be interpreted differently!

LOL, I admit.

"Likely to be" means "it could be". I'm willing to give my ID if necessary I was doing nothing wrong, nothing contrary to the interest of security at least.

Thank you gentlemen for your thorough answers.

deadwood

Alpha Papa wrote: »

Silly question but why Greece?

Saturday, 8 December, 2001, 16:59 GMT Greek tragedy for jailed plane-spotters


A group of 12 British and two Dutch plane-spotters arrested on spy charges in Greece have been found guilty at a Greek court. The spotters, arrested at an airshow in Greece last November, plan to appeal against the verdicts. BBC News Online follows the progress of the case. Saturday 27 April

eroo

saudek wrote: »

LOL, I admit.

"Likely to be" means "it could be". I'm willing to give my ID if necessary I was doing nothing wrong, nothing contrary to the interest of security at least.

Thank you gentlemen for your thorough answers.

A very small group of anti-war protesters seem to enjoy taking photos of corporate jets, then claiming they are 'extradition jets'. Depends where you were too. There is a designated viewing area in the terminal building, and at the back of the runway. Anywhere else would arouse suspicions tbh.

Rics

Illegal or not they sound out of order by common sense!

OP, what airport was it you were moved on from? I know dublin airport has a few points alongside the runways where you can get good pics of planes taking off and landing.

And on the powers of being moved on, there is no harm in asking politely what power is being used against you and why.

saudek

OP, what airport was it you were moved on from? I know dublin airport has a few points alongside the runways where you can get good pics of planes taking off and landing.

Well, I was standing next to the gate located near the threshold rwy 06. Past the hotel/pub that I forgot the name.

Indeed, his time he told me "would you mind moving back to the viewing area I don't like when people stay here" while we were 3 vehicles parked here.

goldie fish

You definitely are not supposed to park under the threshold at the gate at the end of 06.

jasonbourne123

As a member of AGS i have delt with Dublin Airport Police on a number of occasions over plane spotting. A member of the public has the right to plane spot and take pictures if they wish while on public land. But if a member of the public is on airport authority land and take pictures the Airport Police can move them of the land. The Airport Police can not take a persons camera from them or tell them to move from public land because they have 0 authority outside of airport grounds. So the next time the Airport Police come up to you or any member of the public and tell you to move from public grounds phone the AGS in Santry.

Alpha Papa

jasonbourne123 wrote: »

As a member of AGS i have delt with Dublin Airport Police on a number of occasions over plane spotting. A member of the public has the right to plane spot and take pictures if they wish while on public land. But if a member of the public is on airport authority land and take pictures the Airport Police can move them of the land. The Airport Police can not take a persons camera from them or tell them to move from public land because they have 0 authority outside of airport grounds. So the next time the Airport Police come up to you or any member of the public and tell you to move from public grounds phone the AGS in Santry.

Almost all lands and i mean almost all lands around Dublin airports perimeter both side of the outer perimeter roadways are property of the the DAA and/or Minister for Transport.

As a member of the AGS do you care to explain to me how you would explain to Santry Garda station why you are calling them? I would imagine the lands you think as public are most likely private lands either belonging to the aerodrome or industrial neighbours of the airport.

Sounds alot like your advicing people to be wasting police time which i would imagine you as you say as a member of the AGS should not be recommending!?

Oh and below are powers granted to the powers the APS and the AGS from the Airport Bye Laws 1994 would have in a situation where in the opinion of a officer may

( a ) seize and detain for such period as may be reasonable or until the conclusion of proceedings any item used in contravention of this Bye-Law,

(21) monitoring air traffic control, or airport or airline operational frequencies in the State, with radio receiving or recording equipment or using television cameras or other photographic equipment the use of which in the opinion of Aer Rianta is likely to be contrary to the interests of security;


The ABLs cover the APS area of the jurisdiction on all aerodrome lands which inculde the Ministers lands and roadways.

The APS or the Airport Authority, I cant imagine having a problem with plane spotters once they do so in the designated areas and not along the immediate perimeter or in front of emergency gates.

Anywhere else may be viewed as contary to the interests of security.

What about the lay-bys beside the runway. DAA don't own them so they?

Alpha Papa

foreign wrote: »

What about the lay-bys beside the runway. DAA don't own them so they?

Hey Foreign

Yes they do the Minister/DAA own as far back as the tree/ditch line that connects on to the agricultural/sporting lands.

Regards

AP

Alpha Papa

Alpha Papa wrote: »

Hey Foreign

Yes they do the Minister/DAA own as far back as the tree/ditch line that connects on to the agricultural/sporting lands.

Regards

AP

If that is the case, are DAA responsible for the maintanence and up keep of the roads, application of speed limits, street lights, traffic lights, signs and road markings, etc?

Alpha Papa

foreign wrote: »

If that is the case, are DAA responsible for the maintanence and up keep of the roads, application of speed limits, street lights, traffic lights, signs and road markings, etc?

That is correct if you ever view stakeholders reports for the DAA or by the Minister of Transport there does be relevant sections on expenditures for upgrading of roadways and information on them etc..

Terrontress

Alpha Papa wrote: »

That is correct if you ever view stakeholders reports for the DAA or by the Minister of Transport there does be relevant sections on expenditures for upgrading of roadways and information on them etc..

Does this mean AGS cannot enforce road rules on the R108? Or cannot carry out their duties as exist elsewhere on a public highway?

Alpha Papa

Terrontress wrote: »

Does this mean AGS cannot enforce road rules on the R108? Or cannot carry out their duties as exist elsewhere on a public highway?

All Aerodrome roadways landside/airside or on aerodrome/ministers lands are subject to the Road Traffic Act. (APS have no powers under this act only the AGS)

Terrontress

Terrontress wrote: »

Does this mean AGS cannot enforce road rules on the R108? Or cannot carry out their duties as exist elsewhere on a public highway?

Road Traffic Act 1961 - "public place" means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge

Terrontress

Alpha Papa wrote: »

All Aerodrome roadways landside/airside or on aerodrome/ministers lands are subject to the Road Traffic Act. (APS have no powers under this act only the AGS)

What about a dangerously parked car then?

Sorry for an example so banal but I am trying to think of something that AGS would not deal with inside the airport grounds but Airport Police would.

goldie fish

jasonbourne123 wrote: »

As a member of AGS i have delt with Dublin Airport Police on a number of occasions over plane spotting. A member of the public has the right to plane spot and take pictures if they wish while on public land. But if a member of the public is on airport authority land and take pictures the Airport Police can move them of the land. The Airport Police can not take a persons camera from them or tell them to move from public land because they have 0 authority outside of airport grounds. So the next time the Airport Police come up to you or any member of the public and tell you to move from public grounds phone the AGS in Santry.

Are you really in "the AGS"?:cool:

Do you type your own statements?
Define this "public land" of which you speak. I never hear it when I was in templemore. maybe its a new thing....

I'm sorry, but you just don't use mule vocab.:cool:

Alpha Papa

Terrontress wrote: »

What about a dangerously parked car then?

Sorry for an example so banal but I am trying to think of something that AGS would not deal with inside the airport grounds but Airport Police would.

Not sure what exactly you mean? Just vehicle related or any offence?


The APS co-operate with the AGS on operational roads policing . Within the Airport itself and all aerodrome/ministers land roadways that the public use the APS can stop a vehicle, search it and/or arrest a person for dangerous driving, being in toxicated or breaking the aerodromes speed limits if applicable and prosecute through the courts with the assitance of the AGS for bringing a file through the DPP.

ABLs 1994 ref below..

5. Each of the following acts, in relation to vehicles or equipment, is hereby prohibited:—


(1) bringing any vehicle or equipment of a type forbidden by Aer Rianta into an airport;


(2) in the opinion of an authorised officer, driving a vehicle or placing equipment without due consideration for other users of an airport;


(3) failure by the driver of a vehicle to stop when required by an authorised officer;


(4) parking or leaving vehicles or equipment at any access or perimeter or emergency gates;


(5) parking a vehicle or leaving equipment elsewhere than in a place provided and specified for that purpose;


(6) improperly parking a vehicle or improperly leaving equipment;


(7) failure to comply with the directions of an authorised officer, or of signs erected in relation to parking vehicles or leaving equipment;


(8) failure by a person in charge of a vehicle or equipment to remove it from any parking place when required to do so by an authorised officer;


(9) failure by the driver of a vehicle or person in charge of equipment to report, without delay, to an authorised officer any accident or any incident of a hazardous nature within an airport in which the vehicle or equipment is involved or to give to such officer his name and address and, where he is not the owner, the name and address of the owner of the vehicle or equipment;


(10) failure by the owner or person in charge of a vehicle or equipment to furnish to Aer Rianta, in such form and within such time as may be requested by an authorised officer, a report of any accident or incident of a hazardous nature within an airport in which the vehicle or equipment has been involved;


(11) plying a vehicle for hire at an airport without a taxi/hackney permit;


(12) abandoning vehicles or equipment in any part of an airport.
Prohibited Acts (airside and relating to aircraft)

Not sure if that answer your question?

the locust

jasonbourne123 wrote: »

...So the next time the Airport Police come up to you or any member of the public and tell you to move from public grounds phone the AGS in Santry.

Isn't there a Garda Station in the Airport (not Airport security police) but AGS station.

sdanseo

the locust wrote: »

Isn't there a Garda Station in the Airport (not Airport security police) but AGS station.

Yes, mainly to provide a base for GNIB members as well as to deal with Garda matters which come up with which the AP's can't deal. It's a smallish station though, the main base in the area is Santry.

jasonbourne123

Public land meaning State owened. Plus who cares what way i write on this site. to answer your other questions in AGS for 4 years and i do write my own statements.

jasonbourne123

Im not telling people to waste AGS time. On a number of occasions AGS have been called because some members of the Airport Police were intimating members of the public while they were plane spotting. So people should know that they can ring the AGS if they want to. Thats why the AGS is the State Police Force and the Airport Police are only authorised officers.