Teachers cursing at Students

sitstill

I work in a boy's school in Dublin and there's something thats been bothering me since September.

There's one teacher in the school and he is always cursing at the students. I know that sometimes when they really wind you up, the odd bad word might slip out, but I mean he curses at them constantly, whether he's giving out to a student or being friendly to them.

I haven't spoken to anyone else in the school about it and maybe I'm just really old fashioned or something, but I feel he is very unprofessional and there is a certain way we should speak to students.

This guy is a tutor and so I have sent kids to him before for misbehaviour and on one occasion he told a boy that he would "give him a hiding if he annoyed me again" - I know he was not being literal in this but its still not right. Today I was in his classroom when he was teaching sixth years and he cursed in probably every second sentence and made lewd stupid jokes (the kind the kids might make themselves).

What do other teachers think of this, am I just being too sensitive?

spurious

I'd agree. I don't think it's appropriate for a teacher to use bad language at the students. It's unprofessional and it sends out mixed messages.

hussey

Teachers are figures of authority, they are suppose to set an example.

I don't think they should curse constently, but they are only human and have a highly stressful job ......

Toto Wolfcastle

I think it's incredibly unprofessional. We all get angry sometimes, and at times it can be hard to hold back, but cursing should not come into it.

I was thinking about this last week because our caretaker is constantly swearing at students. It's part of his normal way of speaking, but I don't think it's appropriate.

Have parents complained about this? I know that a lot of the kids in my school would tell their parents if it was happening and the parents would be down to the school straight away.

freire

Well the odd swearword is bound to slip out in my experience. But only in exceptionally trying circumstances. Or just plain mistake. I've done it myself and have felt bad/guilty/unprofessional about it afterwards.

Sounds like this teacher is maybe trying to be 'down with the kids', in a naive sort of a way. Or maybe he's old school?

It shouldn't happen and the kids will not respect you for it.

Toto Wolfcastle

Swear words to pop out occasionally. I can't believe that it's allowed to go on though. The kids I teach are all about their 'rights' and will use anything they can to complain, including a teacher swearing at them. 'Shut up' shocks them and they will complain about it. (I said that recently. It just slipped out. I was angry. I apologised straight away.)

But this is why I can't believe the teacher is allowed to continue like this. It just shouldn't be tolerated. Swearing is what the staff room is for.

clartharlear

I've let slip an f... and an s... once each this year. Each occasioned shocked giggles from the boys - they *know* it's not what a teacher is supposed to do.
I've also released a shut up once or twice, but so rarely that they actually do shut up when I tell them because they know I've been pushed too far...

I like swearing but I do it in my own time - it is simply not the language of the school. Elaborated and restricted codes, doncha know.

freire

janeybabe wrote: »

'Shut up' shocks them and they will complain about it.

They must be a little difficult to tiptoe around. That's a bit sensitive on their part. Certainly if it's a very rare occurrence.

Toto Wolfcastle

freire wrote: »

They must be a little difficult to tiptoe around. That's a bit sensitive on their part. Certainly if it's a very rare occurrence.

I find that kids these days are very much interested in their 'rights' and will go to the vice principal about anything that happens. I figure that if I remain professional there is nothing to complain about.

peanuthead

You know, I work in a school where alot of things go on that I feel really shouldn't.

A few examples would be:

No proper attention paid to uniform. If kids wear in runners its ok.

Permission to leave class/go home. If a student comes to a member of staff and says, "will ya ring home for me", 7/10 times, its done.

Some students are even given permission to eat sweets, listen to ipods during class time (class time, not supervision classes)

Teachers seem to try to be the student's friends. I think its very important to be able to connect with the students, as a young teacher I think its one of my advantages, but some go ott.

I have become increasingly annoyed with all of this. I don't feel as though I am happy working in such an unprofessional environment.

I still feel this way, but having read your story makes me realise that it actually could be worse!

peanuthead

janeybabe wrote: »

I find that kids these days are very much interested in their 'rights' and will go to the vice principal about anything that happens. I figure that if I remain professional there is nothing to complain about.

Oh listen, if theres one thing I'd say, its never lower yourself to anyone elses standards like that. You stay professional, you will get more respect for it. How could you be pleased with your performance as a teacher if you went around abusing your students like that

peanuthead

You know, they say that we, as people, curse alot of the times when we are frustrated about what to say, or cant pick the right word quick enough. It's like a stop gap.

So really, if you were eloquent enough, swear words wouldn't be popping out, as you would be very organised in what you were saying, even in the height of a row.

Classroom situations build themselves up. No teacher walks straight into a room and starts roaring at children (unless they have issues) They need to be provoked.

If you feel yourself being provoked, you should start to plan your course of action, and not just stand there trying to ignore the problem until it becomes too much. Thats when you lose it. And its not just the temper you lose, its dignity and respect of the students sometimes aswell.

To be honest, saying that swear words pop out suggests to me that you're really going for it in front of the kids, and to be honest, thats not on, and doesn't sound very coherent. Planning a class or a lesson is not just about planning the material. I don't know about you all, but I know that I spend alot of my time reading up on, and devising strategies to deal with behaviour properly, and eventually be at a stage where I can deal with it properly. Having said that, I do work in a disadvantaged school where discipline would be a major issue.

freire

Interesting issues being raised here.

clartharlear

peanuthead wrote: »

saying that swear words pop out suggests to me that you're really going for it in front of the kids.

Not at all. Popping out and exploding aren't the same!

Par exemple, if you spent a load of time speaking another language, a cupla focail would slip into your everyday English. Wakarimasuka?

freire

peanuthead wrote: »

You know, they say that we, as people, curse alot of the times when we are frustrated about what to say, or cant pick the right word quick enough. It's like a stop gap.

So really, if you were eloquent enough, swear words wouldn't be popping out, as you would be very organised in what you were saying, even in the height of a row.

Classroom situations build themselves up. No teacher walks straight into a room and starts roaring at children (unless they have issues) They need to be provoked.

If you feel yourself being provoked, you should start to plan your course of action, and not just stand there trying to ignore the problem until it becomes too much. Thats when you lose it. And its not just the temper you lose, its dignity and respect of the students sometimes aswell.

To be honest, saying that swear words pop out suggests to me that you're really going for it in front of the kids, and to be honest, thats not on, and doesn't sound very coherent. Planning a class or a lesson is not just about planning the material. I don't know about you all, but I know that I spend alot of my time reading up on, and devising strategies to deal with behaviour properly, and eventually be at a stage where I can deal with it properly. Having said that, I do work in a disadvantaged school where discipline would be a major issue.

Sounds great.

And pretty self-righteous/patronising/high horsey, if you ask me. I work in a disadvantaged school also. I don't think this is relevant. A teacher gets the discipline and respect s/he deserves. If you teach, anywhere, and are not an android, you're going to have the odd blow up. It's part of being human.

I think it's no harm to let the students see the 'you wouldn't like me when I'm angry' side of you occasionally. In a controlled manner of course. Did you ever have a teacher, no matter how brilliant, that didn't ever get angry?

Or maybe you were schooled in a Zen temple?

LiNgWiStIkZ

Here's a students POV (even though you may not want it):

I don't see the problem with teachers swearing. Of course, I don't think it's too appropriate in every sentence, because it'll only get the other people in the class excited and lively and they'll start themselves. Swearing in class by a teacher now and again (IMO) shows that they are comfortable, and can work in an academic but social environment. Nothing wrong with that methinks!

freire

I think you're not wrong. An occasional, inoccuous(ish) swearword, judicially inserted into banter, could be a plus.

Incidentally, more student feedback in this forum would be very welcome, from this particular teacher at least.

peanuthead

freire wrote: »

Sounds great.

And pretty self-righteous/patronising/high horsey, if you ask me. I work in a disadvantaged school also. I don't think this is relevant. A teacher gets the discipline and respect s/he deserves. If you teach, anywhere, and are not an android, you're going to have the odd blow up. It's part of being human.

I think it's no harm to let the students see the 'you wouldn't like me when I'm angry' side of you occasionally. In a controlled manner of course. Did you ever have a teacher, no matter how brilliant, that didn't ever get angry?Or maybe you were schooled in a Zen temple?

Okay

1. Saying that being from a disadvantaged school is not relevant is, in my opinion...rubbish. Of course its relevant. Would you not agree that disadvantaged schools tend to produce more problems with behaviour, because any disadvantaged school I've taught in has been worse in terms of behaviour than other schools.

2. Now, admittedly I was not 100% clear in my post, but I don't think shouting/giving out, raising your voice, having a good rant is not acceptable. I agree that at the end of the day the kiddies need to know who's boss....but are you actually condoning cursing at them? Because if you are, well then I think you're a bad teacher.

3. I'm sorry, but unless every second word that comes out of your mouth is fcuk, then I don't see how curses can just 'slip' out of your mouth in work. Are you for real in saying that this is normal?

4. Self-righteous? No, I just take my job seriously, and take the education of my children seriously. And I take them seriously. As teachers we still give out to our students for accidentally cursing, so why should there be one rule for us and another for them.

peanuthead

LiNgWiStIkZ wrote: »

Here's a students POV (even though you may not want it):

I don't see the problem with teachers swearing. Of course, I don't think it's too appropriate in every sentence, because it'll only get the other people in the class excited and lively and they'll start themselves. Swearing in class by a teacher now and again (IMO) shows that they are comfortable, and can work in an academic but social environment. Nothing wrong with that methinks!

you see how professional didn't make it in there

spurious

peanuthead wrote: »

1. Saying that being from a disadvantaged school is not relevant is, in my opinion...rubbish. Of course its relevant. Would you not agree that disadvantaged schools tend to produce more problems with behaviour, because any disadvantaged school I've taught in has been worse in terms of behaviour than other schools.

While realising it's OT, I wouldn't agree with that at all.
I travel round schools one day a week giving inservice and can say for sure that discipline is not necessarily worse in schools in disadvantaged areas.

Some of the most disrespectful carry-on I have seen has been in what would be considered fairly well-heeled areas. I have witnessed students speaking to each other and to teachers in a manner which would certainly not be tolerated where I teach, a vocational school in Dublin's north inner city.

The standards for behaviour in schools are set by the teachers with the agreement and co-operation of students. This may be particularly necessary where poor parenting has resulted in students who genuinely do not realise their behaviour is unacceptable. One of the many facets of our job is in some cases to point out to them that it not. There is no reason why this should not be the case in schools in all sorts of areas. 'Disadvantage' is no guarantee of a particular pattern of behaviour, nor is poor parenting exclusive to areas deemed disadvantaged.

xOxSinéadxOx

I don't have a problem with teachers swearing at all. I drove most of them to swear anyway so I can hardly be pissed off about it. I mean swearing constantly would be bad but other than that tis grand

Powerhouse

spurious wrote: »

'Disadvantage' is no guarantee of a particular pattern of behaviour, nor is poor parenting exclusive to areas deemed disadvantaged.

In fairness, this is being very specific and prescriptive in its use of the words 'guarantee' and 'exclusive', neither of which were used by Peanuthead.

He/she referred to their own experience which is as valid as any other, and then referred a general view that 'disadvantaged schools tend to produce more problems with behaviour' which if it's not true is out of kilter with every other aspect of socity as disadvantaged areas tend to produce all the higher end social problems and it would be remakrable if they did not exhibit the lower end one in school too.

To say it is 'guaranteed' and 'exclusive' to disadvantaged areas is to put words in the persons's mouth.

Nobody could disagree with your view that "the standards for behaviour in schools are set by the teachers with the agreement and co-operation of students". It is hard to see how a teacher cursing would fit into that as an acceptable mode of behaviour.

Okay, I found some holier-than-thou teachers in school who would give you the impression their ****e was marmalade a bit sickening and they badly needed to chill out, but at the same time if a young student is not going to see reasonable example from their teacher you'd wonder what exactly teaching is for.

Powerhouse

freire wrote: »

I think you're not wrong. An occasional, inoccuous(ish) swearword, judicially inserted into banter, could be a plus.

I think you have unwittingly made an argument against swearing. If it was a good idea you wouldn't need all the qualifiers like 'innocuousish', 'judicially' and 'occasional'. You make it sound like a surgical procedure rather than something that should have a natural place in teacher/student banter.

I think many teachers in my experience could take themselves slightly less seriously with good effect if they can handle letting the guard down. But throwing in a few fcuks just to be one of the lads is a doubtful tactic.

freire

Powerhouse wrote: »

I think you have unwittingly made an argument against swearing.

But throwing in a few fcuks just to be one of the lads is a doubtful tactic.

No I haven't made any argument unwittingly. I don't agree with routine swearing in front of students, in or outside of the classroom. Read my earlier posts.

Again on the throwing in the Fs and Blinds, just to be down with the kids, is not on my list of good things to do. Read earlier post.

But I'm not going to condemn a teacher who lets a BIG word slip now and again. Bit of a narrow definition of what constitutes a bad teacher, as PNH stated, I would have thought.

Powerhouse

freire wrote: »

But I'm not going to condemn a teacher who lets a BIG word slip now and again.

This is different to what you wrote earlier. You wrote: "An occasional, inoccuous(ish) swearword, judicially inserted into banter, could be a plus."

The of the phrase 'judicially inserted' suggests that this would be pre-meditated and deliberate. Quite a different matter from letting a word slip.