intervals pacing?

silverside

Hi
trying to get my 1500 time down from 4:59 to 4:45 (gradually)

anyone got a good training programme?

wondering what pace i should run my reps at, for example tonight i ran 10 x 400 on a 3 minute cycle at 75-77 seconds (had to hold myself back on the first few as i felt bouncy) which is roughly my target mile pace. On a 3min cycle so 100 second recovery (to tie in with the rest of the group)

should i try to go faster (800 pace for 300m ?) or shorten my recovery ?

I know I need to find a coach (my current club has got mainly road runners, I wont be with them forever) but advice in the meantime would be appreciated

little mazungo

hi silverside,

I would need to know some more info before I could tell you where you need to improve to reach your taget time and beyond it,

whats is your 800pr and 3kpr,

firstly I would say that your recovery is to long on the quarters, try 2min cycle as it will be abit more race specific, start off at 79-80sec pace and work down, to 74-75pace over the session,

also what other track work if any do you do apart form quarters?

L M

cfitz

little mazungo wrote: »

hi silverside,

I would need to know some more info before I could tell you where you need to improve to reach your taget time and beyond it,

whats is your 800pr and 3kpr,

firstly I would say that your recovery is to long on the quarters, try 2min cycle as it will be abit more race specific, start off at 79-80sec pace and work down, to 74-75pace over the session,

also what other track work if any do you do apart form quarters?

L M

PRs and Quarters - You've been in the US too long man!

silverside

Hi L M - thanks for replying !

first season of track training

3000m in 10:41 and 1500 in 4:59

I only ever raced one 800 years ago.

Currently do one speed / speed endurance session weekly - the last few have been e.g. 5 x 1k @ 3k, 8 * 600 @ mile , I'm in a group so do whatever they have on, I'm one of the fastest there - and one tempo run 1 x 20 min on grass /road.

Because of my lowish base I'm wary of doing too much too soon (at 20 miles/week currently) but I reckon there's no harm in doing a few 300's or taking less recovery on my 400's.

little mazungo

cfitz wrote: »

PRs and Quarters - You've been in the US too long man!

Im not irish bro,:D

little mazungo

silverside wrote: »

Hi L M - thanks for replying !

first season of track training

3000m in 10:41 and 1500 in 4:59

I only ever raced one 800 years ago.

Currently do one speed / speed endurance session weekly - the last few have been e.g. 5 x 1k @ 3k, 8 * 600 @ mile , I'm in a group so do whatever they have on, I'm one of the fastest there - and one tempo run 1 x 20 min on grass /road.

Because of my lowish base I'm wary of doing too much too soon (at 20 miles/week currently) but I reckon there's no harm in doing a few 300's or taking less recovery on my 400's.

ok, is your track sessions included in your weekly mileage? (20miles)

a proper speed session is just that speed, so maybe introduce this workout into your program, 8x300 at 85-90% of max effort, with 100m jog recovery, generally 45secs, broken into 2sets of 4x300 with a 90sec float lap in between sets, this lap should feel easy and act as a flush out of lactic acid build up, and a mental break from the fast reps, after these reps, 10mins of light jog and 4 x150m's with build ups,(as in come off the curve building up speed and accelerating down the straight) jog/walk back around no need to put pressure on recovery time here, as these builds ups are for working on your fast running form when your body is fatigued, as in the last segment of a 1500 or any MD race, this is a workout that is done alot in the US NCAA systems, with slightly different spins put on by each coach,

aslo tempos are over rated in my opinion(yes I did just say that)
for the MD athlete, I belive that threshold workouts will have more benefit on MD training, something like 2-3mile warm up, followed by 12mins at threshold pace 90-180secs recovery 8mins threshold pace 60-120secs recovery 12 mins threshold pace 2miles cool down, this is much better than a tempo run,

also on easy runs, let them be just that, very easy as alot of novice or amateur athletes thend to run to hard on these runs, they are recovery runs, leave the hard stuff to the workouts. I know many elite athletes that do their easy runs at 8min per mile pace and even slower to alow there body to recover,

L M

tergat

silverside wrote: »

Hi L M - thanks for replying !

first season of track training

3000m in 10:41 and 1500 in 4:59

I only ever raced one 800 years ago.

Currently do one speed / speed endurance session weekly - the last few have been e.g. 5 x 1k @ 3k, 8 * 600 @ mile , I'm in a group so do whatever they have on, I'm one of the fastest there - and one tempo run 1 x 20 min on grass /road.

Because of my lowish base I'm wary of doing too much too soon (at 20 miles/week currently) but I reckon there's no harm in doing a few 300's or taking less recovery on my 400's.

silverside,

Firstly your workouts of 5 x 1k @ 3k and 8 * 600 @ mile are too much for someone of your ability and low mileage. Your aerobic system will not be strong enough to handle this intense work over time.

I would dearly like to see you run more 30-40 miles a week building up to this gradually, then work on LT (Lactate Threshold) workouts such as 3*8 mins steady state pace or at 88-90% of Max HR with 90 secs jog recovery etc and CV Reps (5km pace per km + 10 secs) about 5-6km worth of reps is fine for you e.g. 6*1000m with 90 secs jog recovery so if in 16.40 5km shape for example (3.20 per km) you would do the 1km reps in 3.30. Also do 6-8*100m strides weekly and a long run starting at 50 mins and building to 80 mins over hills.

When you have a strong base behing you try the following progression for 1500m workouts over a period of 6-8 weeks:
-10-14*200m @ goal 1500m pace with 30-60 secs jog rec.
-6-8*400m @ goal 1500m pace with 200m jog rec in 90 secs working recovery down to 60 secs eventually.
-4*600m @ goal 1500m pace with 3 mins jog rec.
-3*800m @ goal 1500m pace with 3 mins jog rec.

For you start with 79-80 secs per 400m pace.

Remember the 1500m is roughly 75-83% Aerobic in nature depending on what research you read so you need to have a strong aerobic system, the speedwork is the icing on the cake.

Think of it like this every time you do an easy run, LT workout, long run etc you are lodging money in the bank (aerobic contributions). You continue to lodge money in order to make a big withdrawl come race time. However if you make little lodgements and make many withdrawals (too much fast stuff) you become bankrupt (erode away your endurance base). If this happens you will not race well or at least to your best potential.

Tergat

Running Bing

tergat wrote: »

Also do 6-8*100m strides weekly and a long run starting at 50 mins and building to 80 mins over hills.

Tergat,

Why should the long run be capped at 80mins?

Ive worked my way to to the point where Im doing 10 miles in around 85 mins for my long run. Im at 40 miles a week now and intend to stay at that until the end of summer.

I know its only 5 minutes but training for the mile would I be better not going over 80 mins for the long run?

tergat

Running Bing wrote: »

Tergat,

Why should the long run be capped at 80mins?

Ive worked my way to to the point where Im doing 10 miles in around 85 mins for my long run. Im at 40 miles a week now and intend to stay at that until the end of summer.

I know its only 5 minutes but training for the mile would I be better not going over 80 mins for the long run?

Running Bing,

I was just keeping it at 80 mins for silversides particular case, for when he worked up to 40 miles a week a long run of 80 mins or roughly 10 miles would be plenty for his ability.

As a general rule of thumb your weekly long run should be around 20-25% of your total weekly mileage for those training for 800m-10000m, with the exception being those training for half marathon and marathon which obviously needs longer runs again.

Your long run is fine, just make sure you do it over hills.

Tergat

silverside

Thanks for the feedback

my long run is 8-9 miles at 8:00 - 8:30 pace, being about half my weekly mileage, (9 miles long, 5 miles tempo (incl 2 warmup/down) 4 miles session (including warmup/down)

i sometimes do biking / swimming as cross-training, but I take your point about not doing too much on the speed sessions and getting mileage in - I reckon I'll be up to 30 miles a week by this time next year