3600 people in DAA

Mailman

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0512/daa.html

soon to be 3200 people but not before a lot of kicking and screaming from a lot of vested interests amongst them the 3 union appointees on the board.

How exactly can DAA have 3600 people working for it?

Shouldn't most of the tasks be outsourced?
Is it over-staffed.
I'll admit my suspicion is that the DAA is over-staffed but I can't get my head around it.
This thread isn't intended as a rant about inefficeint state/semi-state bodies.

I just can't get my head around 3600 people being employed by DAA. I can't fathom what most of them do.

FlutterinBantam

And most of them related to each other.

Way way over unionised, they wouldn't even know what productivity means.

Mailman

OK, OK, but what do they do.
They're not manning the check-in desks, car rental desks, for-ex, bars or working in the shops in the departures lounge.
I certainly hope that most of the mundane services are out-sourced.
Where exactly are these 3600 people employed?

FlutterinBantam

Maintenance of runways and buildings and facilities
Cleaning
Planning ahead
Airport management, HR, accountancy etc.
PR
Car parks
Airport police
Passenger control
Aircraft parking allocation.
Day to day schedule management.
Airport passenger information desks, screens,emergencies.


probably covers it.

Mailman

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Maintenance of runways and buildings and facilities
Cleaning
Planning ahead
Airport management, HR, accountancy etc.
PR
Car parks
Airport police
Passenger control
Aircraft parking allocation.
Day to day schedule management.
Airport passenger information desks, screens,emergencies.


probably covers it.

there is very little in that list that shouldn't be outsourced and awarded on the basis of competitive tenders.

squonk

Of course there's 3600 there. It was Bertie's constituency remeber, and allthe voters had to be given handy jobs after they gave him their little 'dig out' of the Dail Pension & Taoiseach's Salary and that nice S-Class! What's happening now is only right sizing.

Mailman

Bertie is dublin central
but 3600 people is half a quota for pretty much any constituency in the country.

FlutterinBantam

Mailman wrote: »

there is very little in that list that shouldn't be outsourced and awarded on the basis of competitive tenders.

Very little in any job in fairness that you couldn't apply that logic to.

They have come a long way from the times when it took their people three weeks to paint a room the size of the average lounge.;)

they still have a ways to go though.

sdanseo

Mailman wrote: »

there is very little in that list that shouldn't be outsourced and awarded on the basis of competitive tenders.

I disagree. When I worked there it was all nice and seamless; I was seconded into different areas a couple of time etc for events and the like. That couldn't happen if you had 15 different orrganisations. All these extra bodies would need more management who are on higher pay and the staff bill could ultimately be higher.

Any DAA personnel are also expected to perform duties in an emergency and this would be much harder to organise if they were all spilt. Not to mention that there's a good relationship between all the sections, some "common ground" (even if it is moaning about HR 99pc of the time).

I will admit though that DAA is too unionised - the culture is one of overstaffing if I'm honest, we were sitting around a good bit last summer (and non-one will complain obviously :P ). But that said, when the job needed to be done or we were short staffed, most of the staff will muck in 110%. It's unfair to let the hard workers go just because of over-hiring; just don't hire as many extra for T2 and split the existing workforce, obviously with some new additions.

squonk

Mailman wrote: »

Bertie is dublin central
but 3600 people is half a quota for pretty much any constituency in the country.

Yeah, I got my constituencies wrong but Drumcondra, Finglas and all those places aren't a million miles away from the Airport anyway.

I do think they do a good job though. there always seem to be heaps of them around the place which is a good thing all the same.

Fratton Fred

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Maintenance of runways and buildings and facilities
Cleaning
Planning ahead
Airport management, HR, accountancy etc.
PR
Car parks
Airport police
Passenger control
Aircraft parking allocation.
Day to day schedule management.
Airport passenger information desks, screens,emergencies.


probably covers it.

You forgot the 20 or 30 people who spend their lives outside smoking.

To be honest, if the place was better organised they could get away with a lot less.

There are a lot of people who just organise queues and get people through screening, simply because there are so many people trying to get through too small an area.

FlutterinBantam

Unfortunately like the HSE, they do a good job ,but they cost too much.

Tell me this horse, when Ml. O'Leary was getting started on Fr. what was the ONE THING I say again the ONE THING he wouldn't compromise on???

Correct Sir -Unions.

Mick knew that to make a success of what he had planned ,he couldn't spend hour after hour after hour negotiating change.Make that week after week.

He knew that that was a dead end, and he risked everything to avoid it.

All these semi-states do a good job,but given their cost base, in todays scenario, they cost too much,are like the big oil tanker, too slow to react to market forces and their productivity is well below what is needed to survive.

Wise up folks, the pidgeons are coming home to roost, if in doubt,ask the lads in SRT.

sdanseo

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Unfortunately like the HSE, they do a good job ,but they cost too much.

Tell me this horse, when Ml. O'Leary was getting started on Fr. what was the ONE THING I say again the ONE THING he wouldn't compromise on???

Correct Sir -Unions.

Mick knew that to make a success of what he had planned ,he couldn't spend hour after hour after hour negotiating change.Make that week after week.

He knew that that was a dead end, and he risked everything to avoid it.

All these semi-states do a good job,but given their cost base, in todays scenario, they cost too much,are like the big oil tanker, too slow to react to market forces and their productivity is well below what is needed to survive.

Wise up folks, the pidgeons are coming home to roost, if in doubt,ask the lads in SRT.

Yeah a lot of semi-states are massively flawed, nobody denies that. However out of the lot of them, I'd say the DAA are one of the most productive. Look at all the new developments being brought in on budget.

Compare this to the HSE - at least ten times the staff, and the last major building project of noted undertaken was Tallaght hospital. Anyone who's ever had to use that "facilit" will tell you what a mismanaged waste of millions that was.

Yes, union reform is needed. But the DAA cannot be compared with the HSE - that organisation is the epitome of failure. The government unfortunately needs to be involved, but at the same time needs to oversee the hire of competent managers, to be paid ordinary wages not linked to the civil service, and then back the feck off LIKE they have successfully (imho) done with the DAA.

Base

However out of the lot of them, I'd say the DAA are one of the most productive.

Can’t agree with you there I’m afraid, the HSE may be untouchable but I don't feel there's any real challengers to the DAA for 2nd place.

Look at all the new developments being brought in on budget.

Not hard to be on budget when the budget is ridiculously excessive in the first place.

What I love about the DAA is how they like to compare themselves to 'major' airports when referring to charges, etc. but seem to forget to operate like one, the airport being shut down by a few centimetres of snow in early February being one of the most blatant example that comes to mind in recent times - pity there weren't a few more of 3600 at work then.

sdanseo

Base wrote: »

Not hard to be on budget when the budget is ridiculously excessive in the first place.

But it's not a government budget, the DAA earns most of that money all by itself. As for excessive, don't be silly - the airport has been in dramatic need of major updating for a long time. T2 will be in regular use fairly soon despite the downturn, which only serves to show how badly it was needed, and how over-capacity T1 was (whilst under government control, I might add). The same goes for T1X.

Cork airport, on the other hand, is a different story.

As for the airport shutting down in bad weather - this happens everywhere. You can't expect the snow and ice procedures to be top-notch when it's rarely ever needed. Machines that clear snow on runway scale (2,637m x 45m is a LOT of tarmac) are likely extremely, extremely expensive.

FlutterinBantam

Look quit the jibber jabber.

What have we got here?

An airport serving up to 2 million people WITHOUT ANY COMPETITION.

If that cahoney can't coin it there is something wrong.

The DAA is a throwback from the old days, the last bastion of semi state commercialism WITHOUT any competition.

They are moving forward, like painting, security searching unit, is outsourced.

However the majority are still under the shelter of the unsackable (almost) scenario and as a result the drones and lifers will gravitate in, show a relative lack of ambition, work the system and cost the Airport operators and John Q taxpayer a load of hard earned dosh.

Why the fcuk do you think Ml. O'leary gets so agitated at the mention of Aer Rianta to use their old title.


Go figure.

Base

Originally Posted by sdonn
But it's not a government budget, the DAA earns most of that money all by itself.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

T2 will be in regular use fairly soon despite the downturn

I'd expect any terminal to be in 'regular' use.

and how over-capacity T1 was (whilst under government control, I might add).

As things stand Dublin Airport is still under governement control. Also I have to say T1 isn't coping too badly at all at all if you look at extra floor space of T2 which is supposedly badly needed.

You can't expect the snow and ice procedures to be top-notch when it's rarely ever needed.

Sounds like something a DAA staff member would say. I can if it's a 'major' airport and if they have 9 hours to between the next days operations and the last snow fall.

Machines that clear snow on runway scale (2,637m x 45m is a LOT of tarmac) are likely extremely, extremely expensive.

2,637m x 45m is fairly big alright. Not surprisingly the DAA seem to have invested in these expensive machines given that they were proudly announcing that the runway was open during this time. Unfortunately they didn't seem to realise that not de-icing the ramps, etc, makes having the runway open a fairly pointless exercise.

sdanseo

Base wrote: »

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

Simply that the DAA is a PLC, it takes revenue from various sources and redistributes it supposedly without government intervention. I don't know what the position is on government subsidies is, or if they even exist for the DAA any more in repect of Dublin Airport.

Base wrote: »

I'd expect any terminal to be in 'regular' use.

You know what I meant. The worry has been that T2 will lie idle because of the sharp passenger decline - in actual fact it will be busy, purely because T1 is so overcrowded.

Base wrote: »

As things stand Dublin Airport is still under governement control.

Indirectly. The idea is that it runs itself, and I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can (though really, I can't be 100%) in saying that the run themselves in as much as they can do. The government forces its intervention through the Aviation Act.

Base wrote: »

Also I have to say T1 isn't coping too badly at all at all if you look at extra floor space of T2 which is supposedly badly needed.

Yet two years ago, and still, people are screaming blue murder because of the overcrowding in T1. You can't have it both ways.

Base wrote: »

Sounds like something a DAA staff member would say.

Ex-staff, want to get back in so I'm hardly going to reveal all here. That said, anything I have to say is good.

Base wrote: »

I can if it's a 'major' airport and if they have 9 hours to between the next days operations and the last snow fall.

The airport was closed at 3pm and re-opened at 7pm the last time it was affected by snow. That'sa full 10 hours of buildup with very little opportunity to clear the runway(s).

I'm not blanket-defending the DAA here, what I'm trying to do is dispel the typical outside-intervention, or the court of public opinion as it were, from tarring the entire organisation with the "stupid quango" brush just because of the way so many Quangos are and were managed in the state. My short working experience (which I might add, the court of public opinion DOES NOT have) tells me that outsourcing would be detremental to the organisation, based both on the culture that exists in the airport and on common sense. The organisation has come on leaps and bounds form what it was and is only continuing to improve. Give it more than the 4 years it's had - a whole generation of union culture won't evaporate overnight.

Alpha Papa

The DAA's 3600 staff are deployed in the three state airports and also with Aer Rienta International (Duty Free International) also based in SNN and who have staff based in other country i.e moscow, middle east etc..

The DAA are currently in the middle of transforming Dublin Airport which means for passengers enhancing their travelling experience through Ireland primary airport,a new Terminal (T2) and pier E, extension to T1 (T1X), Pier D, Area 14, new Coach Park, improved roadways, metro station and many more projects all on budget currently if not already delivered under budget.

To give you an idea of what staff numbers are like in an airport you must remember that an airport is effectively a small provincial town which needs many services to work effectively


Airport Search Unit

Profiling over 4000 pax an hour on peak - 600 ASU

Airport Police Service - 120 +
Airport Fire & Rescue Service - 100 +
Operations Airside/Terminal - 350 +

The above are only examples of some of the front line operational sections there are more. Then also into account all the maintenance,admin, planning, HR/Marketing/Corporate staff involved etc etc.. they help make an airport what it is!

Dealing with public, passengers often comment on the limited services/poor standards that exist sometimes in Dublin Airport and ask why this is...

Simple.. Dublin Airport was designed in the 1970s with a max capacity of 15 million pax a year with set capacities on the departures floor etc.. Due to poor government forward planning over many years a second terminal was never constructed untill now in 2009 when the demand is far exceding the supply in many ways.

So if you think about it the DAA have invested there profits from many years, sold off its share in other areas to raise money to secure investment in a world class facilities that its customer deserve after years of passengers having to suffer from the mistakes made in the 80s/90s when no investment/forward planning occured.

In 2008 we had over 23million passenger travel through dublin airport alone. In the tough financial year that is 2009 we are expecting 21million + pax to go through the airport.

Not bad for an airport that is designed for 15million!? Dublin Airport can only do this with thanks to efforts of its staff and im not complimenting myself but that of the DAA staff members commitment to offer the best possible travel experince to its users even with the restrictions listed above.


_____

I am one of the staff who today received a letter from my CX stating what the company envisages as approaite action to control costs in these tough economic times. I for one hope that through consultation with staff and the company that these savings can be made.

Its Catch 22 really with investing in the future because you pay for it in the current but mightnt reap the rewards for few years to come when we will finally have an airport in our nations capital that we can be proud of and not embarrassed of like we our now.

Alpha Papa

EoinC010

Mailman wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0512/daa.html

soon to be 3200 people but not before a lot of kicking and screaming from a lot of vested interests amongst them the 3 union appointees on the board.

How exactly can DAA have 3600 people working for it?

Shouldn't most of the tasks be outsourced?
Is it over-staffed.
I'll admit my suspicion is that the DAA is over-staffed but I can't get my head around it.
This thread isn't intended as a rant about inefficeint state/semi-state bodies.

I just can't get my head around 3600 people being employed by DAA. I can't fathom what most of them do.

With an airport that holds over 23 million people a year, I think 3600 people to keep is running, is just about right....

fatcontroler

It's 3600 over all 3 airports cork shannon dublin. Not just dublin DAA runs all 3 airports as did aer rianta.

EoinC010

Well then!! There 3600 covering probably about 35 million or so!

Fratton Fred

EoinC010 wrote: »

Well then!! There 3600 covering probably about 35 million or so!

Don't forget that all the checkin staff will be employed by the airlines, all the shop staff are employed by the various outlets, the ground staff will be employed by Menzies, SRT, Aer Lingus etc etc. Whilst there may be say 2400 DAA staff at Dublin airport, the airport will have a lot more staff than that

Base

sdonn wrote: »

Simply that the DAA is a PLC, it takes revenue from various sources and redistributes it supposedly without government intervention. I don't know what the position is on government subsidies is, or if they even exist for the DAA any more in repect of Dublin Airport.

We're still talking about a state company here. I stand by my original statement that it's not hard to be on budget when the budget is ridiculously excessive in the first place.

You know what I meant. The worry has been that T2 will lie idle because of the sharp passenger decline - in actual fact it will be busy, purely because T1 is so overcrowded.

If we opened a terminal 3 at Dublin tomorrow it wouldn't lie idle either, nobody's denying extra space is required at Dublin but it's hard for anyone to justify T2 in it's current form.

Indirectly. The idea is that it runs itself, and I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can (though really, I can't be 100%) in saying that the run themselves in as much as they can do. The government forces its intervention through the Aviation Act.

My point is nothing has fundamentally changed since Aer Rianta became the DAA.

Yet two years ago, and still, people are screaming blue murder because of the overcrowding in T1. You can't have it both ways.

Who wants it both ways? Again to explain my point, I'm surprised that T1 was able to cope in recent years, in fact that it even functioned at all, if we truly need the 75,000 extra square metres T2 will be providing. As an example, Copenhagen handles similar numbers to Dublin and currently has approximately 90,500 square metres of floor space. Even if we exclude the old T1 completely, the new T2, T1X and Pier D have 97,500 square metres of space in themselves!

Ex-staff, want to get back in so I'm hardly going to reveal all here. That said, anything I have to say is good.

As expected, if not still on them people do usually try and clamber back aboard gravy trains in tough/recessionary times.

The airport was closed at 3pm and re-opened at 7pm the last time it was affected by snow. That'sa full 10 hours of buildup with very little opportunity to clear the runway(s).

This sentence doesn't even make sense. I refer to the fiasco that was February 6th. Last recorded snow on the airport's METARs was light snow at 8.30pm on February 5th yet there was total chaos on Friday 6th. DAA announced that the runway was open for business at 5.30am but didn't clear the ramps in the 9 hours that were available making this pointless. As if this wasn't enough of a joke in itself, most inbound aircraft were then diverted to Cork and Shannon until 1pm given that there were no stands available to them at Dublin. Dublin airport's runway that morning must have been one of the most useless active runways in the world!

what I'm trying to do is dispel the typical outside-intervention, or the court of public opinion as it were, from tarring the entire organisation with the "stupid quango" brush just because of the way so many Quangos are and were managed in the state

The DAA should be able to do this for themselves if it were indeed the case, they're failing fairly miserably to date I have to say though. For example, I believe a lot more people would have had more respect for them if they acknowledged that the way they handled February 6th wasn't optimal and outlined how they plan to address these issues if these conditions were to occur again into the future. Simply blaming it on "some of the worst snowfalls in the Dublin region for almost twenty years" and still pointing out that "Dublin Airport’s runway has been fully operational since 5.30am today" was just laughable.

My short working experience (which I might add, the court of public opinion DOES NOT have) tells me that outsourcing would be detremental to the organisation, based both on the culture that exists in the airport and on common sense.

Why does the alternative have to be outsourcing? How about simply an efficiently run airport that everyone can be proud of?

rivegauche

EoinC010 wrote: »

With an airport that holds over 23 million people a year, I think 3600 people to keep is running, is just about right....

That's an absurd response. I could pick another number; 5000, 6000, 7000 and you'd use the same argument with no supporting data as a knee-jerk response.

Alpha Papa is at least putting numbers on staff areas although we have no means of verifying them as there is no transparency in the Organisation.

sdanseo

In response to the general staff levels; I think from my own experience they are just right. There has to be enough to shift around.

Just to justify the numbers in Terminal Services; for where I was there were 130 staff over the summer and 70 during the winter and that was just right. Not too many, not too little.

Base wrote: »

We're still talking about a state company here. I stand by my original statement that it's not hard to be on budget when the budget is ridiculously excessive in the first place.

...and I stand by mine that the budget is more than justified.

Base wrote: »

If we opened a terminal 3 at Dublin tomorrow it wouldn't lie idle either, nobody's denying extra space is required at Dublin but it's hard for anyone to justify T2 in it's current form.

Well, I just have. I don't know if you've ever used T1 when it's busy, but it's a hell-hole to get through and that is not through lack of effort on the part of any staff member, certainly not a DAA member anyway. There just isn't the space.

Personally, I always found staff of a particular airline extremely unhelpful and this only added to the chaos which the DAA has to mop up.

Base wrote: »

My point is nothing has fundamentally changed since Aer Rianta became the DAA.

The organisation is much more driven and progressive, that should be clear to see. There have been internal changes, budget changes also - the fact that they are looking to lose 400 people shows they are at least trying to be fiscally responsible if nothing else.

Base wrote: »

Who wants it both ways? Again to explain my point, I'm surprised that T1 was able to cope in recent years, in fact that it even functioned at all, if we truly need the 75,000 extra square metres T2 will be providing. As an example, Copenhagen handles similar numbers to Dublin and currently has approximately 90,500 square metres of floor space. Even if we exclude the old T1 completely, the new T2, T1X and Pier D have 97,500 square metres of space in themselves!.

I refer to my second point. Do you have first hand experience of Copenhagen; how do you know it's not utter chaos also?

The fact remains that at the time of comission, T2 was DESPERATELY needed. It is a testament to the staff and their hard work for the most part that T1 has managed to cope with not more less than twice its design capacity.

Base wrote: »

As expected, if not still on them people do usually try and clamber back aboard gravy trains in tough/recessionary times..

I took that job because I have an active interst in aviation/transport area, and because I'm styudying in the sector, not for the cash.

It's good money, relative to the qualifications needed, but it's certainly not the only such job in the country and definately not as good pay as the civil service, for example. Get off your high horse.

FlutterinBantam

I would, by and large, agree with SDONN there.

DAA is usually well run, point of contact experience is usually good,they have done very well to cope with space and facilities constrictions, in the boom years.They get some things wrong at times as we all do but to me anyway they project the image of an organisation who are customer friendly and generally want to do well.

They had been historically hamstrung by Govt. policy,and political interference in the past and are just about wriggling free now, long way to go though.

Biggest problem ,which is the same as the HSE,the cost base is too high, nothing to do with staff inefficiencies or effort but more a historical legacy of operating in a protected area similar to Aer Lingus,before the cold winds of change blew through the organisation.

Productivity in certain areas not driven by operational processes would be low,which is why the management are seeking to shed 400 jobs.

I would have confidence they will achieve this goal and become more in line with modern airport management, and the cost base required to drive profitability and best industry practice .

Base

...and I stand by mine that the budget is more than justified.

On what basis do you stand by it? Can you really justify the budget for T2 which has almost doubled over the last 3 years? Even the DAA are struggling to justify their own budgets at this stage!

Well, I just have. I don't know if you've ever used T1 when it's busy, but it's a hell-hole to get through and that is not through lack of effort on the part of any staff member, certainly not a DAA member anyway. There just isn't the space.

Again on what basis are you justifying T2's size? I base mine on a recent Aviation Appeals Panel report.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/report-raises-concern-at-oversized-terminal-two-1599633.html

Personally, I always found staff of a particular airline extremely unhelpful and this only added to the chaos which the DAA has to mop up.

Not sure what relevance this little did has. I'll guess you're talking about...SAS?;)

The organisation is much more driven and progressive, that should be clear to see. There have been internal changes, budget changes also - the fact that they are looking to lose 400 people shows they are at least trying to be fiscally responsible if nothing else.

The problem is it's not clear to see. The 400 staff reduction plan would have happened before now if they were truly "driven and progressive", not now as a desperate measure when times get tough.

I refer to my second point. Do you have first hand experience of Copenhagen; how do you know it's not utter chaos also?

I think you're even being a little harsh on the DAA here, I wouldn't refer to Dublin airport as "utter chaos". Well here's one example of Copenhagen being recognised as a quality airport: http://www.worldairportawards.com/ Unfortunately Dublin seems to rarely feature in these lists.

The fact remains that at the time of comission, T2 was DESPERATELY needed. It is a testament to the staff and their hard work for the most part that T1 has managed to cope with not more less than twice its design capacity.

Again I refer you to the recent Aviation Appeals Panel report in which they've stated that they are "concerned that permitting what may be a greatly oversized Terminal Two does not facilitate the efficient and economic development of Dublin Airport and might give rise to a risk to the financial viability of the DAA". Hence the current desperate calls from the DAA to have passenger charges raised by a minimum of €3, guess somebody has to pay for excessive budgets;)

It's good money, relative to the qualifications needed

Hence my use of the term 'gravy train'.

parsi

@Base - sdonn has stated that he's ex-DAA - do you have any vested interests to declare ?

Whilst everyone is moaning about the snow-day which brought the country to a standstill we should recall that Heathrow went fairly belly-up as well (and was subject to the same criticisms).

Base

FlutterinBantam, some days I completely agree with you, others I can't understand where you're coming from! I mean a state company is never going to wriggle free of political interference, legally nothing has changed from Aer Rianta since the DAA took charge of Shannon and Cork again - the ultimate in political interference! We need some element of competition if we are to have best industry practice, or at least a genuine fresh start not just a name change. The recent examples of Ireland facing the threat of being shut down by the aviation unions makes a mockery of this country to the outside world and sadly shows how things have changed very little.

Base

Hi parsi,

No vested interests to declare beyond being a regular user or Dublin Airport amongst others. Background on that that I'm pretty sure Ryanair have transported me and out of there the majority of times but Aer Lingus comes a fairly close 2nd and other airlines have been used too. Nothing juicy to report really.

I don't believe Heathrow shut down the following day after snow, granted their was considerable 'chaos' for use of a better word! That has more to do with aircraft traffic capacity issues though, I dare not even consider what Dublin would be like with similar capacity issues!

I mean are you really trying to justify DAA's handling and response? Seriously?

FlutterinBantam

Base wrote: »

FlutterinBantam, some days I completely agree with you, others I can't understand where you're coming from! I mean a state company is never going to wriggle free of political interference, legally nothing has changed from Aer Rianta since the DAA took charge of Shannon and Cork again - the ultimate in political interference! We need some element of competition if we are to have best industry practice, or at least a genuine fresh start not just a name change. The recent examples of Ireland facing the threat of being shut down by the aviation unions makes a mockery of this country to the outside world and sadly shows how things have changed very little.

The point I am trying to make is that DAA have come a long long way from where they were.They still have a long way yo go.

Rome wasn't built in a day, if you pardon the cliché.
The wheels of progress move slowly and as I stated clearly, DAA are far from perfect.Political interference is still there but not as overt or stifling.

Eventually I'm sure, there will be competition in some way,which will be good for the comsumer.

AS a lad called E Dunphy once said "A good company Bill,not a great company".

That's basically where I am coming from

sdanseo

parsi wrote: »

@Base - sdonn has stated that he's ex-DAA - do you have any vested interests to declare ?

Whilst everyone is moaning about the snow-day which brought the country to a standstill we should recall that Heathrow went fairly belly-up as well (and was subject to the same criticisms).

I should clarify here, just so as it doesn't come back on me - I spent 6 months there, one summer contract (and as it's such a lucrative gravy train, yes I suppose more would be nice to get me through college ).

For your average person that's dismissible, but I'm observant and have a keen (and vested) interest in the area so I took in a lot more than some of the others working there. Just in case anyone thinks that's not long enough for my opinion to matter.

Base wrote: »

On what basis do you stand by it? Can you really justify the budget for T2 which has almost doubled over the last 3 years? Even the DAA are struggling to justify their own budgets at this stage!

Again on what basis are you justifying T2's size? I base mine on a recent Aviation Appeals Panel report.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/report-raises-concern-at-oversized-terminal-two-1599633.html

Not sure what relevance this little did has. I'll guess you're talking about...SAS?;)

Again I refer you to the recent Aviation Appeals Panel report in which they've stated that they are "concerned that permitting what may be a greatly oversized Terminal Two does not facilitate the efficient and economic development of Dublin Airport and might give rise to a risk to the financial viability of the DAA". Hence the current desperate calls from the DAA to have passenger charges raised by a minimum of €3, guess somebody has to pay for excessive budgets;)

If I'm honest, I didn't know about that report. I'm basing my opinion on experience.

I have pored over the floor plans for T2 in great detail and it looks just the job based on the number of people I have seen struggling through T1, and also based on my experience of efficient airports throughout Europe. For example, there are 54 check-in desks. There are 112 in the 13 areas of Departures in T1 and a further 26 in Area 14, yet the crowds still get out of control very easily. Another 54 is less than a 50% increase.

There are 19 gates at the new terminal, as a maximum. Not all of these can be used simultaneously given the size of some aircraft that will be using it. There were 4 stands done away with to create it, leaving a maximum net increase of 15 (over the ~30 contact stand there are currently); not exactly over-the odds for an airport that pre recession was increasing its passenger figures by 1-2 million every single year.

Even if T2 is not used to its full capacity (and let's face it, it probably won't it was comissioned when ~26 million were flowing through T1, 5 million more than this year's forecast) it remains a valuable asset for an airport that will inevitably grow to fill it. It's a fantastic investment if nothing else.

If my opinion isn't good enough, fine. I'm getting bored re-justifying it. That's all I ever offered, yours is entitled to be different.