Building a PC vs PC to Order

crybaby

I've been living in Thailand for nearly the past two years and have fallen way beyond on all things PC related. After two years of using internet cafes and computers at my job I have decided it's time to get a good sturdy PC back into my life. Now this PC is going to be used primarily as a family PC - internet, kids games and the usual stuff but also I would like to be able to play fairly recent games without the computer going crazy. it doesn't have to be very top end just as good as i can get for my budget - 18,000 baht. Now at the moment these are the two options I'm looking at.

Option One- Build it myself, now I'm tempted to do this to obviously save money and also i think it might just be good fun as well. I'm using thanni.com as my first resource but all parts are easily available in Bangkok probably at a slightly higher price than most things on this website. Please bear in mind that I have no idea anymore about putting together a PC so I'm asking for your opinion on how this computer would function and how can I make it better within my 18,000 budget including monitor. This is what I have so far from the website.


Intel Core2Duo 2.8 Ghz
4,460.00

Geforce 8500GT RAM 512 MB
1,710

ASRock 945GCM-S Intel 945GC Chipset Mainboard for Intel LGA 775 Retail
1.390

Western Digital 320GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache S-ATA II Hard Disk Drive Model "WD3200AAJS" OEM
1.710.00

Kingston ValueRAM 240 Pin 1GB DDR2-800 PC2-6400 RAM Retail x2
1,060

ASUS Black DRW-22B1ST 22x22 DVD Writer 12x12 DL 12x DVD-RAM S-ATA Retail
940

DGET "LC321-17" Silver/Black ATX Case w/ 420w (20+4P) Power Supply Retail
1020

LG "W1934S-BN" 19" Wide Screen Flatron LCD Monitor Retail
3,880

Budget for Keyboard, mouse and speakers
700


Total Price : 16,780 baht


Option Two : Already made PC to Order, this one I don't have detailed specs on but you will get the general picture. This one can be modified as well but at a higher cost.

Core2Duo E7400 - 2.80 Ghz

RAM : 2048 MB

HDD - 320 GB

DVD/RW

ATI HD4350

INTEL G31 CHIPSET

19" MONITOR

Keyboard / Mouse / Speakers

Price: 17,900

If anybody could suggest what is the better system to go for or what improvements I could make I would much appreciate it. Also bear in mind that my budget is 18,000 with not too much leeway as it is primarily a family PC. Also please remember I have no idea about motherboards, cases, power supplies, ram and graphics card so please so help me out!

Effluo

i am so confused...

Effluo

i just did the currency converter...

Your first build is only €355


Woah!!!


On your budget:
I think you should downgrade the processor and allocate more money to the graphics card, A dual core 2.4ghz is supposedly fine to run any game.
When you are on a budget such as yours and you wanna play a game or two you have to look at what would give you better use!
That graphics card really won't play much!

Also Looking at that website i'm thinking, you should try and find a different website!
Try one of the Thai internet forums and i'm sure they'll tell you who gives good value for money...
The shop you're looking at now has very little variety and i've noticed that little variety can often mean bad pricing, which is in fact displayed throughout the website, some of the price differences between components don't add up!
I'd say you could get a real quality machine for your 18,000 baht if you find a better online store


Also in terms of builing it, I was in the same boat as you a few months ago and i build it and it was fine.
All the manuals that came with the components were really easy to follow and i ended up getting the exact pc i wanted tailored for me. (and yes it was fun!)

Solitaire

Mmm... more hole-picking...

CPU: Almost overpowered for a budget build - overe here the AMD equivalent is the mid-range X3-720BE! E5200 is sufficient for a budget build, they're great little chips at stock and can easily made to run at 3.33GHz at which point there's little that can tax them 2690 baht/€57

Graphics: Epic fail. All you can save on the former will be going back in here. Unfortunately there's no sign of the new HD4770 which would have been perfect. Powerful yet cheap and not power-hungry. Oh well... If you're really cash-strapped you're stuck with the HD4670 (2840 baht/€61) - I'm not pushed on the cheaper nVidia cards due to DDR2 or impossible specifications (anyone got it yet? ) . If you can spend a bit more try the Spark 9800GT (4040 baht/€87) or this nicely shrouded and reputable-brand HIS HD4830 (4180 baht/€90). Or wait and see if the HD4770 pops up cheap. Your call.

Motherboard: Fail. i945 is a very old chipset and can't run newer 45nm CPUs like what you and I've been looking at. But then the range suddenly jumps to really pretty decent mobos... at prices to match :rolleyes: Asus P5QL-EM is a decent lil' mATX for 3550 baht/€76, and the next up is a decent full ATX Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3LR for 3780 baht/€81. No, no budget parts between them and the i945 for a third of the price... mad...

HDD: No Samsung or Hitachi The one you picked is a good choice, or the 500GB model with energy saving and twice the cache for 2120 baht/€45. Your call.

RAM: If you want to stick with 2GB or fill all 4 slots getting 4GB the Corsair XMS 800MHz is better value at just 460 baht (less than a tenner!) per 1GB stick. If you want to hit 4GB using two 800MHz sticks then get a pair of Kingston ValueRam sticks at 940 baht/€20 a pop, or a nice GeiL Value kit for 2100 baht/€45.

Optical: From experience Asus can be a lil' noisy when reading or writing but I haven't had any other weirdness with them. But you'd be better off with the SATA-based OEM LG for just 810 baht/€17

Case: You'd be far better off with a seperate PSU, but it'll push your budget over the top. If you have to get a combo I'd only trust the 1360 baht/€29 Hualian cases with the 450W PSUs, for no other reason than the fact the 24pin connectors hint at something at least a bit less ancient and fragile than the ATX1.3-based units in the rest of the combos, though even they may lack the PCIe connector you'd need for any graphics card other than the HD4670. In any case the cooling utterly blows - single 80mm fans FTL! If you can buy seperate the Asus TA881 is cheap and at least... servicable. Although while it seems a bargain at 720 baht/€15 you'd need two 80mm fans as well (the one included is fail) and maybe a 120mm intake to boot. The Enermax would probably be your best bargain as the chassis sounds like a solid CM Elite clone with front and rear 120mm fans but I don't know whether any are included at 1180 baht/€25. Talking about the CM Elite you can have four different designs of the real thing (with rear fan and side window) for the princely sum of 1340 baht/€28, which may end up your best bet as they're renowned as excellent budget chassis (esp. 330).

PSU: Epic fail again! You could maybe risk the PSU in the Hualian case but its risky. As for seperate PSUs the cheapest PSU I'd even think of risking in a modern PC is the 405W Enermax Tomahawk (actually a Channel Well DSA400 ) for 1980 baht/€42, which matches up with our prices fairly well. I also see some Liberties (not Liberty Eco) over there - back from the bad old days where Enermax were second only to Antec in the violent detonation stakes

Screen: I'd like one of those for €82! :P

The pre-build has a better mobo but also an even inferior graphics card.

crybaby

What can I say Solitaire you truly are a gentleman and a scholar. As I said previously I have no idea what I'm doing so I really do appreciate your huge post, I'm going to go do some more price checking over the next few days offline and see if I can improve any of those prices and see if I can find any of the alternatives you suggested. Bangkok has some huge places just for hardware so i'm sure I can find most of them and probably at a decent price. I'll keep this thread going in the coming days.

Thanks as well Effluo for your comments on the graphics card!

Solitaire thinking outside of the website what would you recommend budget wise for a different motherboard? The jump in price seems rather drastic is there anything there you think would be in the middle that could do a job? I'm sure I can find the graphics card you recommend the HD4770 easily enough. So this is what I have right now on my list


Intel Pentium E5200 2.5GHz 800FSB 2MB L2 Cache EM64T LGA 775 Dual Core CPU Retail

2,690.00

ATI Radeon HD 4670 Graphics Card

2,840

Asus P5QL-EM

3550 baht

Western Digital 320GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache S-ATA II Hard Disk Drive Model "WD3200AAJS" OEM

1710


LG GH22NS 22x22 DVD Writer w/ 16x16 DL 12x DVD-RAM S-ATA OEM

810


LG "W1941S-PF" 18.5" Wide Screen Flatron LCD Monitor Retail

3,880


Cooler Master "Elite 334" Black Mid Tower Case w/ Transparent Side Panel Retail

1,280


Enermax ETK405AST Tomahawk 405W ATX12V v2.2 Power Supply Retail

1,980

Corsair XMS2 1GB DDR2 800 PC-6400 RAM Retail - 515 x 2

1030


Keyboard / Mouse / Speakers

800

Total Price : 20,570 baht

However if we use the Hualian combo that you suggested.

Hualian "Power 7800+" Black ATX Case w/ Front USB & Audio Panel 450w (24P) Retail
1,360

Our total price : 18,670 baht

Pretty damn close to budget if I use the combo but do you think its possible to shave some off that motherboard and put it towards the case and PSU as you say the cooling is terrible and i would like to overclock if possible or regardless of overclocking just have a good reliable system that I know isnt going to balls up in the future. Any other ideas for budget ideas for seperate PSU and case that would be outside of the website?

Anyway thanks for all the help Solitaire tis much appreciated.

TerrorFirmer

An excellent post by Solitaire.

The problem with cheapo case/PSU combos is the PSU, regardless of how crap a case it, usually it'll remain functional, the most worrying thing about those types of case in my opinion is the horrible asthetics, rought edges, and shoddy build quality. I've sliced open fingers countless times working with cheap cases. If you get a half decent case, the extra fans won't be necessary from a functional point of view. A single 80-120mm outtake fan will suffice to cool any system really against actual overheating, though several fans is ideal if you like to keep temperatures on the lower side. My last build was an mAtx case with a single 80mm outtake fan, a 4870 1GB and E8600 overclocked with the Intel low profile stock cooler, and I never had any overheating issues, for example. But with a cheap case, the airflow will be much worse. It makes much more economic sense to go for a half decent case, most of which at least come with 1 80mm fan.

The PSU that comes with these cases will be several things. 1) An older design, designed to meet older specifications that differ greatly from the current ones. That's not to say it won't work, but that it's not going to be very efficient or reliable. 2) Inefficient. Cheap supplies are horribly inefficient. I've no idea what type of PSU is in that case, but most cheap case/PSU combos come with PSUs's that would typically be only able to safely output half their specified wattage, as well as being horribly inefficient in generating that wattage (for example, a particular cheap supply might use 400w to generate 200w, which means a higher electricity bill, long term that cuts your saving). So if you're placing 300w strain on a cheap 400w PSU, the headroom you think you might have probably doesn't actually exist. 3) Unstable. As well as being inefficient, the design of these cheap PSUs would not be aimed at powering performance parts, so would possibly flucuate wildly, causing system instability, even if it doesn't outright crap out.

The age of these combo's is evident if you look at the picture of case, which bares a sticker stating 'Intel Prescott Ready'! Which automatically, assuming it was manufarued before or during that period, makes it 5-6 years old at least. A quick google also shows that machine as being a 20pin combo on some sites, so that one may just have been updated with an adaptor.

If there was one single component I would not cheap out on, it would be the PSU. It is always worth the extra investment as it is the backbone of your entire PC. Everything else, by comparison, can be cheaped out on it without any real danger, only relatively resolvable issues like temperatures and airflow. And in that regard it's hard to see where to shave off more money in your build. Possibly by switching to an AMD Cpu/mobo, are they're cheaper and while not as fast as Intel, they would still hold their own in games at the relatively low resolution of that monitor. Example, the 5200+ X2 and Asrock N68PV would save you about 2,000 Baht and would still be fairly OK for games and day to day use. Note: The Intel would be faster, and a much, much better overclocker, but you can't have everything on a small budget! Personally you're best spending the 1-2,000 b over your budget on the machine, you'll reap the rewards of that in the potential of the machine.

The 4670 is fine at the native resolution of that monitor. There's also this at almost the same price, also an excellent performer at that resolution and has a good cooling solution, a lot of stock 4670's, like many of the stock 9600GSOs, are stuck at 100% fan speed and thus are rather loud. Not sure which models in particular though, but one to investigate.

Solitaire

Err, Terror, that's the Amazing Impossible GPU!

If I could change the bus width of a component simply by typing garbage I'd be going HD4770 256-bit HD4770 256-bit HD4770 256-bit HD4770 256-bit HD4770 256-bit HD4770 256-bit HD4770 256-bit HD4770 256-bit... right about now

TerrorFirmer

what's wrong with it? they revised the gso to be 256-bit a while ago, over the original 8800gs' and early gso's 192-bit. i think that one for that price, with the aftermarket cooler is a pretty good buy for the op. though they cut the shaders as well so the new interface and memory don't add to anything really in the end. its not based on g92 either, its based on the newer (and smaller) core above that. so its pretty much a completely different card to the original 9600gso i suppose...might even be a bit slower?? but still a decent card.

Solitaire

Wow, I came out of this one with eggy goodness all over my face.

Can't believe I didn't know that... :eek:

TerrorFirmer

please, i read your posts daily now instead of tech sites.

I just wish nvidia would ****ing stop with their ass-ways naming scheme. 9600GSO was orginally a renamed 8800GS, as if that wasn't cheap enough, now it's something completely different, but they actually kept the same name....nvidia are absolutely **** these past few years at anything other then high end products, i really utterly fail to understand why people rush out to buy crap like 9500gt and 9400gt when 4670 and 4550 destroy the competition respectively....

AlmightyCushion

Solitaire wrote: »

Wow, I came out of this one with eggy goodness all over my face.

Can't believe I didn't know that... :eek:

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

please, i read your posts daily now instead of tech sites.

Yeesh, get a room.

TerrorFirmer

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yeesh, get a room.

care to join us? lemon party?

AlmightyCushion

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

care to join us? lemon party?

Every hole's a goal.

crybaby

Cheers for your comments Terrorfirmer, honestly I would have no problem shipping out the extra money but its trying to convince my girlfriend of the nessecity of buying Intel over AMD:D But i will certainly consider the AMD option, how much greater performance would I get from the Intel chip percentage wise like 10% 20% 30%?

Are there any budget range motherboards that anyone would recommend that I could stick in the system? Or any seperate PSUs and cases budget range that people would recommend completley outside of the website. I'm going on Sunday to a shopping mall here in Bangkok thats basically nothing but PC software and hardware at low prices so I'm bound to find bargains.

I really would like to keep it as close to 18,000 as possible, 19,000 I could get any with but I think 20k might be pushing it

Thanks again for the help guys

Right now the two options are as follows

Intel Build

Intel Pentium E5200 2.5GHz 800FSB 2MB L2 Cache EM64T LGA 775 Dual Core CPU Retail

2,690.00

ATI Radeon HD 4670 Graphics Card

2,840

Asus P5QL-EM

3550 baht

Western Digital 320GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache S-ATA II Hard Disk Drive Model "WD3200AAJS" OEM

1710


LG GH22NS 22x22 DVD Writer w/ 16x16 DL 12x DVD-RAM S-ATA OEM

810


LG "W1941S-PF" 18.5" Wide Screen Flatron LCD Monitor Retail

3,880


Cooler Master "Elite 334" Black Mid Tower Case w/ Transparent Side Panel Retail

1,280


Enermax ETK405AST Tomahawk 405W ATX12V v2.2 Power Supply Retail

1,980

Corsair XMS2 1GB DDR2 800 PC-6400 RAM Retail - 515 x 2

1030


Keyboard / Mouse / Speakers

800

Total Price : 20,570 baht


AMD Build

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ 2.7GHz 2x 512KB L2 Cache 2000MHz HT Socket AM2 Dual Core CPU Retail

2,690.00

ATI Radeon HD 4670 Graphics Card

2,840

ASRock N68PV-GS nVidia GeForce 7050 Chipset Mainboard for AMD Socket AM2+ Retail

1,690.00

Western Digital 320GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache S-ATA II Hard Disk Drive Model "WD3200AAJS" OEM

1710


LG GH22NS 22x22 DVD Writer w/ 16x16 DL 12x DVD-RAM S-ATA OEM

810

LG "W1941S-PF" 18.5" Wide Screen Flatron LCD Monitor Retail

3,880


Cooler Master "Elite 334" Black Mid Tower Case w/ Transparent Side Panel Retail

1,280


Enermax ETK405AST Tomahawk 405W ATX12V v2.2 Power Supply Retail

1,980

Corsair XMS2 1GB DDR2 800 PC-6400 RAM Retail - 515 x 2

1030


Keyboard / Mouse / Speakers

800

Total Price : 18,710


I'm confident that with a bit of searching after talking to some people I can get most of the stuff at lower prices but again I would appreciate any suggestions anyone has for budget but decent PSUs, cases and mobos.

Cheers!

Solitaire

Yeah, E5200+HD4770 would be extremely futureproof compared to the usual "ultrabudget" rig but it'd be pushing it

CPU: If you could pair a cheap E5200 with a cheaper mobo you'd be flying. E2200 if desperate but I doubt you'd be able to get much more than 300 baht difference in which case its pointless to step down. And per clock cycle you'd get probably ~40%+ more power out of a Core2 than an Athlon, plus you'd usually get Core2s at higher speeds anyway, and even an E5200 shrugs off 3.33GHz and can hit 3.8GHz+ overclocked, Athlons can't go much beyond 3GHz even on a wing and a prayer :P

Mobo: The lack of cheap older mobos on Thanni was awkward, those ~3500 baht units were actually excellent value for money, just not for your budget Keep an eye out for cheap ATX or especially mATX P31/35/41/43/45 or G31/33/41/43 mobos, especially anything affordable from Asus/Gigabyte/MSI (latter often has older P3* mobos going cheap). Over there DFI, Biostar and Foxconn would also do in a pinch, but only take ABit/ASRock if they're cheap. Avoid off-brands like ECS! And make sure you get one with a PCIe slot and preferably 7.1 sound (they usually use better sound chips than old 5.1 setups) but the latter isn't vital.

HANG ON - This makes interesting bedtime reading. My bad - i945GC seems to be a much newer part than i945. And see the ICH7 SB? Might this be for budget/emerging markets I wonder? In any case its still pretty meh but for less than 1400 baht/€30 its worth a gamble on a shoestring budget

RAM: AT least 2GB (2 sticks of 1GB, exact same type or in a kit), 677MHz (PC5300) minimum, if you can afford 4GB and/or PC6400 more power to you otherwise don't sweat it.

Graphics: IF you can afford it HD4770 FTW. Nothing else compares if you can get it cheap, if it's just not common enough to drop under 4000 baht (or not there) forget it and stick with a cheap 9600GSO or cheaper HD4670 - Thanni is a good guide for the upper limits (good prices there!)

It's the case and PSU that are going to do your head in. Any hardware above won't pull much more than ~140W even under heavy load so if you do see a case with a nastyish PSU, if you're desperate just check to see if has a 24pin mobo plug and preferably a 6pin PCIe connector as well (not neccessary for HD4670). Also see if you can see other low-end CWTs (masquerading as 400W+-rated Enermax Tomahawk, OCZ Mod/StealthXStream, Thermaltake TF2 Q-Fan etc.) cheaper than the price listed for Thanni's Tomahawk give them consideration.

crybaby

Thanks again Solitaire, I shall go window shopping on Sunday armed with this entire thread printed out and report back with some findings on Monday. I will stick with the Intel E5200 and hope to get something cheap when it comes to the motherboard and hopefully something halfway decent when it comes to the PSU and case.I have a feeling I'll just have to suck it up and go for a combo PSU/Combo if I don't find a cheaper motherboard.


I found another Thai based website how would any of these fair?

http://www.advice.in.th/advice_in/

Just picked a couple of examples from the website in an effort to get closer to the 18,000 baht dream. How would these options fair in the system? i imagine these prices are minus 7% VAT I'll find out later.

Motherboards

(775-VSL) ASROCK G31M-S "Asys" Model : Asrock Asrock N73V-S

1,480 baht

(775-VSL) GIGABYTE GA-G31M-ES2L Model : Gigabyte GA-G31-ES2L

1730 baht

Monitor

LCD 19" I-VIEW (SPK) B/Blue

3050 baht

TerrorFirmer

Just glancing quickly at that website they have a much better selection of mobos to suit your budget. For example the Asus P5K is only 1,680 Baht. And prices are generally cheaper. I would avoid the ECS/Asrock unless you were stuck, they are OK but pretty sparse on features, especially ECS - last time I used one of their 775 mobos, their 'overclocking' menu was basically a choice between two FSB speeds, which were miles apart so it was impossible to use, as you couldn't adjust any memory settings or indeed anything but fsb!!

E5200 - 2550 Baht.
Asus P5K - 1680 Baht.
ATX Case SW-9003 - 370 Baht.
Tsunami 585W PSU - 1,700 Baht.
4670 IceQ Turbo - 2,710 Baht.
Lite-On DVD-RW - 880 Baht.
SeaGate 320GB - 1,730 Baht.
LCD 19" ACER (X193Wabd+DVI) - 3,660 Baht.
DDR2(800) 2GB "KINGbOX" - 940x2 = 1,880 Baht.
Keyboard/Mouse/Speakers - original budget 800 Baht.

Total: 17, 860 Baht.

To summarize:

Intel E5200
Asus P5K
Cheap but OK looking case
585w Tsunami PSU
Radeon 4670 IceQ Turbo
4GB 800Mhz Ram
19" 1440x900 Acer Monitor
320GB Hard Drive

Thoughts: Case looks to have the best airflow (or rather potential airflow maybe) out of a mediocre lot, very poor selection of cases and power supplies on that site. The Tsunami cases might be OK too, but all come with PSUS, which are likely fairly poor, so it's best to just go for a cheap case and decent PSU rather then a decent case/flakey PSU.

Looked up reviews on the PSU, having never heard of it before, but its rated as reliable and stable in several reviews, but having short cables, which shouldn't be a problem in that case.

I threw 4GB of ram in as it doesn't hurt, but you can subtract nearly 1,000 Baht if 2GB if enough for you - which is it for nearly every game out there really.

4670 is a particularly good one, as it uses the IceQ cooler, which is far better than the stock cooler. In fact the money you've saved could be put back into the video card, so that for 20,000 Baht you'd have an excellent gaming machine. But the 512MB 4670 is a fairly decent card in its own right.

Ultimately the case/PSU solitaire have recommended are better, but this machine gives you increased performance at a lesser price, and provides reliability to boot. One thing I have to reinforce again is that you really, really should avoid those cheap case/psu combo's.

Speccing up machines that far away is a bit difficult for us as naturally we wouldn't know the best hardware sites around.

crybaby

Wow, thanks again for the reply Terrorfirmer should probably be tossing money at the two of you for all of your help so far. I see you are not going to let me buy the cheapo monitor eh?

As much as I would like to have 4 gigs of RAM maybe I would be better off putting the money towards the PSU / case problem.

I think I'm settled on the following bits and then I have a decision to make on the PSU / case. But if you think I can get by with that case and PSU I will have money left over to put the extra RAM in. I honestly don't know, if yourself and Solitaire could pick from the options below or make any further suggestions it would be great.

Updated Build List

CPU Pentium E5200 (Box-5Y by AServ) 2,550

ASUS P5KPL-AM "Dcom/Synnex" 1,680

SeaGate 320GB 1730

LCD 19" ACER (X193Wabd+DVI) 3,660

Lite-On DVD-RW 880

PCIe ATi 4670/512MB ICEQ DUAL HIS (DDR3,TD) 2710

Keyboard / Mouse / Speakers - 850

DDR2(800) 2GB "KINGbOX" "Aserv" 940

Price for build with no case or PSU: 15,000 baht


3,000 baht left over to solve the PSU / Case problem, what's the best option?


Option One


Hualian "Power 7800+" Black ATX Case w/ Front USB & Audio Panel 450w (24P) Retail

1,360 baht

Total Build Price : 16,360





Option Two


CM Elite 330

1,280 baht

405W Enermax Tomahawk

1,980 baht

Total Build Price : 18,260 baht





Option Three


ATX Case SW-9003

370 baht


POWER 585w. (SATA) Tsunami ON (Box,w/Cable)

1,700 baht


Total build Price : 17,070 baht






Option Four



POWER 585w. (SATA) Tsunami ON (Box,w/Cable)

1,700 baht

CM Elite 330

1,280 baht



Total Build Price: 17,980 baht

TerrorFirmer

If you're going to be buying from 2 places, then I'd outright ignore the Hualian case/psu combo, and opt for the Elite for sure, and then the Tsunami and Tomahawk at your own discretion, though I'd say the Tomahawk is a better bet really. Ignore my case choice, I only chose that assuming you'd be ordering from the same source for everything.There's also something like the 333, which is similar but just looks a bit better in my opinion.

The monitor - yeah, you could cheap out on that a bit too really, cheap monitors these days are far, far better then cheap monitors from a few years ago. I bought my own 24" last year at about 60% normal retail price of quality screens like Samsung, and it's still going strong, and provides an excellent, crisp picture. Just try and found out first what brands they are, what screens they use, and all that, because budget can mean 'a lot for a little', or unfortunately sometimes 'pay low, get low'.

If you're using Vista stick with the 4GB if its XP then 2GB will be perfectly OK.

Effluo

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Just glancing quickly at that website they have a much better selection of mobos to suit your budget. For example the Asus P5K is only 1,680 Baht. And prices are generally cheaper.

Just like i said....
I'd say you could get an even better website if you to ask on some Thai forum where the cheapest place is!

Just try it and you might be able to get everything you want in your pc for that price.

crybaby

Cheers again lads.

Effluo I'm going to try and buy most of the stuff offline at a huge mall in Bangkok that's basically just PC hardware and nothing else and it is known as having very cheap prices so I'm hoping I can get at least the same as online if not a better price. Anyway I will update the thread again on Monday morning after my trip on Sunday.

Thanks again for all the help.

If I do just use XP will all of the more recent games run on it? I have no experience of using Vista before and i don't want to use it if it's going to put pressur eon the system

Solitaire

Can't think of anything that won't run on XP other than Shadowrun, maybe I'm missing a title? Anyway, you're really not missing much. And yes, Vista unneccesarily taxes the [CENSORED] out of a system - not really that "green" an approach? :P Its a nice OS once you get past its... "eccentricities"... but the extra load on your system (esp. CPU and RAM) isn't really helping things on a budget build

TerrorFirmer

The only games I'm aware of are Shadowrun and Halo 2, both of which run under XP with a little 'help', and both of which are totally average games, so I wouldn't use that as any sort of base. Personally I'd stick with XP, Vista is OK but incredibly resource heavy compared to XP, particularly on a budget build. The E5200 is still fine with Vista, though you'd want the 4GB if you go with that choice of OS. I use XP 32-bit and will continue to do so in my new build, will eventually switch to the new Windows when it comes out, have bypassed Vista entirely. Not a fan at all.

crybaby

Sounds great I shall stick it out with Windows XP so and hopefully upgrade the RAM in the future. I never had much interest in Halo so i think I can live without the sequel.

Effluo

I don't know much about these things but isn't Windows 7 evaluation versions out now for free?
I've heard very good things about it too!

thepcgp

You can download the release candidate for Windows 7 here, but keep in mind that the RC will expire on June 1, 2010. Starting on March 1, 2010, your PC will begin shutting down every two hours (sasser flashbacks). Windows will notify you two weeks before the bi-hourly shutdowns start (how nice). To avoid interruption, you’ll need to install a non-expired version of Windows before March 1, 2010.

Mighty.

Effluo

Yeah i knew that but what i was saying that for him he might as well go with the release candidate until it's actually released and then buy windows 7 rather than getting xp???

thepcgp

Yeah, you're right Effluo, that would be a good way to go about it. Crybaby, I think you have a nice, economic but robust system there - but when you're in the PC Mall, look out for the i7 Extreme. It's about £700 in the U.K. - if you can get one cheaper, and a compatible board, and still stay within your budget, I would definitely go for it, even if you have to stinge out on other components. It's got 2 threads per core, with 4 cores, for a total of 8 threads. It has more than double the memory access performance for reduced latency, and "overspeed protection" is removed for this chip, making it easy to overclock. Sounds awesome.

TerrorFirmer

thepcgp wrote: »

Yeah, you're right Effluo, that would be a good way to go about it. Crybaby, I think you have a nice, economic but robust system there - but when you're in the PC Mall, look out for the i7 Extreme. It's about £700 in the U.K. - if you can get one cheaper, and a compatible board, and still stay within your budget, I would definitely go for it, even if you have to stinge out on other components. It's got 2 threads per core, with 4 cores, for a total of 8 threads. It has more than double the memory access performance for reduced latency, and "overspeed protection" is removed for this chip, making it easy to overclock. Sounds awesome.

are you just copying and pasting your posts from a google search or something?

the dude has a machine that costs about 400 for the whole machine; that is his ceiling. and you go advising him to invest in a 700 sterling CPU alone? not to mention the cost of a suitable mobo. what would you have him 'stinge out' on in the other components when they're all already budget choices as it is? you know, seeing as an i7 extreme and mobo would set him back about double/triple his budget alone at least and all, not to mention the necessity of all other parts.

thepcgp

Wow. I'm not advising him to do anything. I just said to have a look when he's in the PC Mall in Bangkok and see if there's any deals on the i7 Extreme, because it is the best on the market (apparently) and if he can get one at a good price, well and good. I thought he said his budget was €1000 - maybe that was another post. But he can do his own sums I'm sure, and come to his own decision about what to buy for himself. I'm sure he appreciates you piping in to protect his best interests, but maybe he can do that himself?

The stuff I wrote about the processor I got from from Intel's site, which is where I went to find out what makes the i7 different. Ok, there's a bit of marketing schtick in there, but I'm not exactly writing an independent review here.

Why don't you keep on topic, we're all just trying to provide helpful advice here, not attack each other's suggestions, right? Yeesh. Get some sleep. And sorry to everyone else for wasting a post on this topic even responding to this, my bad, ok?

TerrorFirmer

even if someones budget was 1k you wouldn't go spending pretty much the entire budget on the cpu/board alone. what about case, psu, hard drive, ram, video card?

you don't buy any 'extreme' edition processor unless you're budget is insane and you also are maybe a bit insane. in a 1k build i wouldn't spend more then about 150-160 on the cpu if theres gaming involved. naturally the money spent on the cpu can correlate to your exact needs. the video card is much more critical though in any build where gaming is planned on that budget. the sheer overclocking potential in intel cpus as well as the strong performance per clock even in those lower end cpus means that a weak stock cpu with a good high end card will trounce a high end cpu will a budget card even without overclocking.

your advice was not helpful. we can all share opinions but your advice is not even remotely, vaguely, or in any conceivable way possible for the op. which makes it unhelpful and rather pointless. you said you recommended the i7 extreme because its the best cpu. that's an incredibly childish way of looking at it. if i bought the 'best' of everything for my new pc it would cost about 10k+. building a machine does not work that way for 99% of people. and when you consider the ops budget for his entire machine is about 50% of the retail of the i7 extreme alone, your advice is plain pointless. even if it was a 1k build an i7 extreme would still be a ludicrious suggestion.

crybaby

Right went window shopping today an interesting experience to say the least five floors of nothing but PC hardware and software. You walk into a shop hand them the list of specs and they price it up for you and will build it for free as well. Now I probably could handpick from different shops the lowest price for each component but that would be fairly pointless as if you buy all together in one store you will always get a nice big discount taken off the end price. So this is what I have right now, I went to about 6 - 7 different shops and got a price list and I think i will probably go with this crowd as they were good to talk to

http://www.pansonicsthai.com

Probably would have made things easier if I had known this website two weeks ago right ?
If you see anything there that stands out as a bargain let me know and I will change, havent ordered yet and won't be ordering for another 3 - 4 weeks so everything can be changed. Right now I have the following down as my system

Intel Core2 Duo E5200 ( Ingram/Synnex ) LGA775 2,590

Asus P5KPL-AM LGA775 1,680

Western Digital 320 GB - not on website - 1,700

HIS Radeon HD4670 IceQ DDR3 512 MB 2,850

19" Acer - 3,690

LG or LITE-ON DVD-RW 22X - 800

Keyboard & Mouse - 300

Cooler Master Elite 330 - 1,250

Cooler Master 460W PSU - 1,400

Speakers - "donated" by place of work

Total Price : 17, 190

OF course what i had forgotten to add in with the previous prices and today's price is bloody 7% VAT which will bring it up to

Including VAT: 18,390 baht odd

However I am pretty much entitled to a nice discount as this is Thailand and a discount is mandatory when purchasing anything over 100 baht. I'm expecting at least a 300 baht discount if not 400 to push it down

somewhere between 18,000 - 18,100 - including VAT

So what's the verdict on the final list and if you see anything worthy of purchase on the website let me know!it is possible there is some way I could get the VAT back but it would probably be a lot of hassle. I also saw cheaper RAM at 790 for 2gig made by Kingbox at a different store don't know how good it is though? There was also a good range of power supplies at the place so can be changed if cooler master isn't decent.

Effluo

thepcgp wrote: »

Yeah, you're right Effluo, that would be a good way to go about it. Crybaby, I think you have a nice, economic but robust system there - but when you're in the PC Mall, look out for the i7 Extreme. It's about £700 in the U.K. - if you can get one cheaper, and a compatible board, and still stay within your budget, I would definitely go for it, even if you have to stinge out on other components. It's got 2 threads per core, with 4 cores, for a total of 8 threads. It has more than double the memory access performance for reduced latency, and "overspeed protection" is removed for this chip, making it easy to overclock. Sounds awesome.

It's worrying that this guy is actually in the business of giving people advice on their pc's......

There's a right pc for everyone and an i7X is not what this guys needs, even if he could afford it would be of no use to him, a complete waste of money!!!

All he wants is a nice cheap family pc for media and a small bit of gaming??
I just hope you're not in the sales department of pcgp!

thepcgp

Crybaby, that looks like a very respectable build you have there. And the price is excellent. I work it out to around €385 if you get the discount you're talking about, which is really very good.

There's some info here about claiming back your vat from Thailand. It's probably a lot easier than you think. Make sure you ask the sales assistant to complete a vat refund form, and attach the original tax invoice or receipt to that form. You will need to show the sales assistant your passport. When you are requesting the refund, the goods will need to be inspected by a customs officer prior to check-in. It's worth doing, the vat rate in Thailand is 7% so if the total including vat is 18,000 baht, so the vat amount you'd get back is about 1178 baht, or €25.

crybaby

Cheers for the help pcgp but I'm actually living here so won't be going home at any stage and I don't count as a tourist as I have a different visa and a work permit, cheers for trying to help though. There is other ways of getting it back but I would need help from some Thai people, my girlfriend is asking around at the moment about it, but my girlfriend is certain we can get at the very least a 500 baht discount anyway so i think I will be hitting my 18,000 baht budget

Solitaire

I was gonna rip that PSU but it's not that bad actually for your build - really a rebadged, cheapified and overrated AcBel E2 Natural Power 420W. Everything else is grand. Shame about the HD4770 (or lack thereof) though

crybaby

Ah I saw Cooler Master and automatically assumed it must be decent

These are some other cards I came across in the stores and on the website

Tagan 500 watt TG500-U37- 1,850

Thermal Take 450 Watt - 1,950

Enermax Tomahawk 405 watt - 1,790 / 450 watt - 2,290 baht

CM Extreme - 1,790

Asus Power Supply 450W - 1,800

DELUX Power Supply 500W DLP-34A PSU 1,050

FRD Power Supply 450W PSU 380

RAIDMAX Power Supply 430W PSU 950

RAIDMAX Power Supply 530W PSU 1,500

Tsunami Power Supply 520W PSU 700

PC Power & Cooling Power Supply 420W PSU 2,100

Nothing is finalised yet and i won't be buying it for a little while so still time left for changes. Could I cheap out on the case / PSU to improve the GFX or RAM or would that be a stupid move? What would be the better choice for the PSU?

I did come across the HD 4770 but only in one place and it was at 4,090 baht.

uberpixie

crybaby wrote: »

Could I cheap out on the case / PSU to improve the GFX or RAM or would that be a stupid move?

Case is a huge factor regarding how well the parts inside your PC are cooled and how much noise you can hear the internal parts make. Get a good case, don't get anything too cheap as your PC will be loud and run hot.



PSU: do you really want to skimp on a critical part that provide power to all of your expensive parts. NEVER skimp on the psu it always ends in tears....

crybaby

Forget that comment Solitaire and terrorformer have already informed me of the importance of a good PSU and case, i think i was suffering from a case of early morning stupidity or just some sorta craving to get the 4770

in terms of the PSU will the Coolermaster do a good job or what else should i go for?

Solitaire

I wouldn't worry too much - CoolerMaster do make some very nice budget cases and coincidentally (not like we badgered you into it ) you've selected one. Win.

The PSU is, oddly, both very hard and very easy to get right on such a tight budget. Its hard to get a really good model for such small amounts of money, but given the budget your part choices just won't really tax most PSUs anyway so you have a lot more latitude in your choices than a more demanding build. The Tomahawks aren't uber and can't touch the quality of a "real" (made by Enermax) Enermax but its still a perfectly viable low-end unit. Same goes for the AcBel - its pretty mediocre, but by hitting ~80% efficiency ever its clearly made of sterner stuff than any truly, genuinely crap PSU. Given that low, low pricetag I'd say its probably the cheapest unit that you could buy without reservation.

Oh, off-topic but I did note you mentioned RaidMax in that list up there. Here's Corsair's tribute to them.

I think the word you're looking for is "owned"