Final Ref

curts82

I see Nigel Owens was named the ref for the final!! Last year he ref'd Munster to the final from last group game and now ref'd Leinster from 1/4's to the final!
Good omen?

Stealdo

I don't have anything hugely positive or negative to say about Owens. He generally refs in a way that leaves a game flowing and open which will suit neither team particularly positively or negatively. My main issue with him is that he seems to occasionally ignore things in order to let the game flow, particularly forward passes and knock-ons, but this will be the same for both teams.

If I were a Leicester supporter I wouldn't be happy at all that Leinster have the same ref for the third HEC game running. From a Leinster point of view if they come out on the wrong side of the penalty count again with him they surely can only blame themselves. If you haven't figured a referee out after 2 full games there's something wrong.

bleg

george clancy got the ECC. fair play to him.

Tim Robbins

Stealdo wrote: »

If you haven't figured a referee out after 2 full games there's something wrong.

3 penalities in the semi's were nothing to do whatsoever with trying to figure out a ref.
1. Healy's late hit
2. Jennings late hite
3. Elsom's pull back.

Several were a natural consequence of Munster being in the red zone for long periods of time.

Owens is a class act.

Delighted he's doing the final.

Just got my tickets today. Wahoo!

Paulw

Owens is a very good ref. He likes a flowing game, and is good at talking to the teams.

Can't see any major factor effecting either side, so it'll be the same for them both. Should make for a good and fair game.

Noopti

Very good ref. There is a reason he is picked to ref the big games.

However, I wouldn't read it as some sort of omen. Just common sense.

Stealdo

Tim Robbins wrote: »

3 penalities in the semi's were nothing to do whatsoever with trying to figure out a ref.
1. Healy's late hit
2. Jennings late hite
3. Elsom's pull back.

Several were a natural consequence of Munster being in the red zone for long periods of time.

Owens is a class act.

Delighted he's doing the final.

Just got my tickets today. Wahoo!

I know you're not one for believing in ref's having differing 'interpretations' of areas of the game, but that's really what I meant. If there is such a thing, then having had the same ref for several big games on the trot you've in theory a slight edge. There can be no complaints in my opinion if they are getting unnecessarily pinged.
(I didn't really mean that if the pen count is 4-3 to Leicester - there's no accounting for player's stupidity or cynicism at times)

wixfjord

bleg wrote: »

george clancy got the ECC. fair play to him.

Happy owens got the final from a leinster point of view, but I dislike clancey a lot.

Marshy

He was the only real choice I think, not to take anything away from him, he's an excellent ref.

Berdos was probably the only other possibility but he seems to be out of favour with the ERC, not getting a match since the pool stages.

I think it should give Leinster a slight advantage but then again I thought him reffing would help Munster in the semi.

Tim Robbins

wixfjord wrote: »

Happy owens got the final from a leinster point of view, but I dislike clancey a lot.

Clancy is also quality. He had a few problems in a VI nations match with the scrums kept being reset. But he has potential to go all the way.

A really top quality ref e.g. Owens, that never happens to.

Derby games can really messy at times. There have been a few Leinster / Munster matches which got very messy with either non stop pinging or non stop niggling and basically a lack of rugby.

wixfjord

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Clancy is also quality. He had a few problems in a VI nations match with the scrums kept being reset. But he has potential to go all the way.

A really top quality ref e.g. Owens, that never happens to.

Derby games can really messy at times. There have been a few Leinster / Munster matches which got very messy with either non stop pinging or non stop niggling and basically a lack of rugby.

I understand your a ref Tim, are there any refs that you dont rate?
Ive watched a lot of magners this year and have lost count of the amount of times Ive thought a ref has had a bad game, forward passes, wrong decisions, random calls at the ruck and scrum etc

Tim Robbins

wixfjord wrote: »

I understand your a ref Tim, are there any refs that you dont rate?
Ive watched a lot of magners this year and have lost count of the amount of times Ive thought a ref has had a bad game, forward passes, wrong decisions, random calls at the ruck and scrum etc

It would just be stupid me critising refs that have proven they can ref games at a much higher level than me.

Come back to me after I've worked up a few more levels :-)

That said, I'd love to see how Nigel Owens or any international ref (with no touch judges) would deal with some of the insane crazyness you get in the J4 Leagues!!!!!!!!!!! Or mental parents running onto a pitch at a U16 game!

anonymous_joe

I said after the game I wasn;'t necessarily happy with his performance but that I was horrendously biased.

Watched the game again the other day and was very impressed with him tbh. He's a good ref.

mikedragon32

Some of the worst decisions I've witnessed at J3/J4 level were by refs from higher levels.

I had considered moving on to reffing as I've just played my last season, but I can do without the headaches! It's a life on the sidelines causing the headaches for me now!

Tim Robbins

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Some of the worst decisions I've witnessed at J3/J4 level were by refs from higher levels.

I had considered moving on to reffing as I've just played my last season, but I can do without the headaches! It's a life on the sidelines causing the headaches for me now!

Ha!

Would you consider coaching? The branch are running some courses over the summer. Why did you give up? Would you not just drop a level rather than giving up completly.

J4 reffing is just mental. You'd need to be thick skinned.

wixfjord

You should try reffing a Junior B hurling game in Wexford!

Tim Robbins

wixfjord wrote: »

You should try reffing a Junior B hurling game in Wexford!

Ha any good stories?

phog

Tim Robbins wrote: »

3 penalities in the semi's were nothing to do whatsoever with trying to figure out a ref.
1. Healy's late hit
2. Jennings late hite
3. Elsom's pull back.

Several were a natural consequence of Munster being in the red zone for long periods of time.

Owens is a class act.

Delighted he's doing the final.

Just got my tickets today. Wahoo!

Should that YC not have gone to BOD for the high tackle?

phog

phog wrote: »

Should that YC not have gone to BOD for the high tackle?

Does it matter?

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

Does it matter?

No, as the game is over and that's why I didn't bring it up on the match thread but why discuss anything here so as most things that are discussed we have very little control over so in a sense it doesn't matter.

I was asking a guy that is a ref did he think the yc should have been awarded to BOD instead of Cian Healy, a fairly reasonable question in my mind, if it annoys you then ignore my post.

Tim Robbins

Penalty: Yes. Definetely.
The YC depends on the temperant / standard / situation / time of the game.

I think one YC was enough and Owens had a better view of Healy's infringement. YC for high tackles are usually when they are only clear cut.

Sometimes a tackle can be accidentally high, in that a tackler may genuinely mistime it or a ball carrier may duck a bit.

If there's any doubt, I usually always use the yellow say if it's a J4 / J3. Whereas if it's an under 14 game, played in good spirit, a strict telling off and penalty can be more appropriate.

Stealdo

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It would just be stupid me critising refs that have proven they can ref games at a much higher level than me.

Why not sure the rest of us spend out time criticising players who are playing at countless levels higher than we ever reached (and I'm sure there's some here regularly criticise players who've never played)

phog wrote: »

Should that YC not have gone to BOD for the high tackle?

Just took a look back there - Not at all. There's only one decent angle to see it from, the others look bad. From one of the replay angles you can see that BOD's arm isn't above shoulder height until Healy has already hit Dowling. Then BOD really only clips him as he's half pulling out. Incidentally it was BOD's loose kick that gave Dowling the ball, he covered about 40m to get there.

curts82

try to understand giving a pen wit a minute to go when up by a point and they decide to kick at goal and they kick it wide and other team go the to the other end of the pitch and score!! one minute brilliant ref two mins later a disgrace!!
Rugby ref'n doen't bring heart ache! Majority of the time its quite fun! Don't know it till you try mike.
George is a good ref! Like's his style.
And Tim we can criticise ref's. We're human after all!
But Terriotory speaking Owens is the best ref out there!

Four-Percent

curts82 wrote: »

try to understand giving a pen wit a minute to go when up by a point and they decide to kick at goal and they kick it wide and other team go the to the other end of the pitch and score!! one minute brilliant ref two mins later a disgrace!!

Eh?What game are you referring to?

Ror73

curts82 wrote: »

try to understand giving a pen wit a minute to go when up by a point and they decide to kick at goal and they kick it wide and other team go the to the other end of the pitch and score!! one minute brilliant ref two mins later a disgrace!!
Rugby ref'n doen't bring heart ache! Majority of the time its quite fun! Don't know it till you try mike.
George is a good ref! Like's his style.
And Tim we can criticise ref's. We're human after all!
But Terriotory speaking Owens is the best ref out there!

I agree Owens is one of the best. When he came on the scene a few years ago he had white boots and a better version of spiked hair. The commentators were wondering if he was Ronaldo. His reffing is good because he talks a lot. refs who talk the game along are usually better than ones who don't

phog

Ror73 wrote: »

I agree Owens is one of the best. When he came on the scene a few years ago he had white boots and a better version of spiked hair. The commentators were wondering if he was Ronaldo. His reffing is good because he talks a lot. refs who talk the game along are usually better than ones who don't

Tony Spreadbury ????????

Ror73

phog wrote: »

Tony Spreadbury ????????

Tony Spreadbury what? Yes he is crap. What I said is that refs who talk are generally better than those who don't. Spreadbury talks a lot but is inconsistent and has retired having being dropped after Fra v NZ 2007 RWC.

Pick out a referee who says nothing and tell me he is better than one who does.

Marshy

Ror73 wrote: »

Pick out a referee who says nothing and tell me he is better than one who does.

Well I would've thought it's a fundamental of refereeing that they do communicate with the players.

But I do agree Owens is one of the best in that regard.

Ror73

It IS a fundamental of refereeing. Not only communicating with players but also with the spectators. It is prescribed in IRB regulations. That's why there are so many hand signals for referees.

For example there are around 60 infringements that can happen in a lineout resulting in either free kicks, penalties or scrums. It is imperative that the referee communicates with the players.

The ones who don't communicate usually wind up the players, fail to get the game freeflowing and have a high level of inconsistency.

crisco10

Ireland - France
Leinster - Wasps
Harlequins - Leinster
Munster - Leinster

All games that Nigel Owens has reffed, all games my team has one. I'm happy with that. That and Owens does seem to like the Irish teams.

Much better than merde-os!

phog

crisco10 wrote: »

Ireland - France
Leinster - Wasps
Harlequins - Leinster
Munster - Leinster

All games that Nigel Owens has reffed, all games my team has one. I'm happy with that. That and Owens does seem to like the Irish teams.

Much better than merde-os!

Not wanting to rain on your party but most games that Owens reffed for my team (Munster & Ireland) we won too except that faithful one in Croke Park, hope your run doesnt end in Edinburgh

crisco10

phog wrote: »

Not wanting to rain on your party but most games that Owens reffed for my team (Munster & Ireland) we won too except that faithful one in Croke Park, hope your run doesnt end in Edinburgh

Well, you had a nice run with him last year in the HC. QF, SF and final IIRC.

thomond2006

Nigels Owens is the ref....hmmm.

At least we'll be able to hear the ref no problem!! :D

mikedragon32

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Ha!

Would you consider coaching? The branch are running some courses over the summer. Why did you give up? Would you not just drop a level rather than giving up completly.

J4 reffing is just mental. You'd need to be thick skinned.

I'm 37 now. Haven't really played a whole lot in the last two seasons either, thanks in part to the stupid uncontested scrums at J4. No point having a fat slow fecker like me on the pitch if I'm not needed for half of what a prop is on the field for.

I'll have a think over the coming weeks about my options.