BMW Oil Consumtion

Tom1974

Hi all,

I bought a 2002 bmw from a Bmw main dealer back in November 2007. It was part of their approved used car range. I got a one year warranty with it.

However last year I discovered that the car was using a litre of oil every 600 miles. I mentioned this to the salesman and he informed me to leave it in to him to check. To cut a long story short the car has been back in with them on 5 occassions and the problem still persists.

It has had its cyclone valve changed, a new head on the engine and also a new engine block, however the low level oil light has come on again after only 350 miles!!

I have in the past asked for a replacement car and I was told they would not replace it but try and repair it. My question is, how many times do I need to keep sending it in for repair? Really annoyed at this stage and any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks..

Johnboy Mac

I'd say enough is enough and make an appointment with your solicitor based on your post. An independent inspection would be wise also.

Fishtits

Any car using a Litre of oil every 600 miles is a dud in my book. Absolutely unacceptable. Stand your ground. Serious problem there.

PS, I drive a donkeys year old BMW that has never required a top up between its services.

200K miles on, I'd expect no less.

PPS VW came out with some rubbish about their small petrol engines being oil thirsty and normal... again rubbish, an engine shouldn't burn oil, end of IMHO.

Tails142

In fairness to the dealer if they have done that work that is mega bucks

New cylinder head? A new head alone costs 2500, getting the fauty one skimmed only costs about 150, but there is about 8 hours work in stripping and fitting the new head.

Not sure what you mean by new engine block but also sounds expensive

If the dealer has indeed done this work (can you verify?) then it sounds like he is making reasonable efforts, not much consolation to you but you can probably be assured that your car being brought in under warranty 5 times is as much as a headache for him as it is for you!

air

If they replaced both the block and the head already it doesnt leave too many options as to where the oil is going (one can only assume a new block meant new rings, bearings etc). Has the car got a turbo? Could be the source of the consumption perhaps.

Anan1

A new block & a new head is basically a new engine. Short of a turbo problem, I can't imagine where the oil is going?

kona

Anan1 wrote: »

A new block & a new head is basically a new engine. Short of a turbo problem, I can't imagine where the oil is going?

probably didnt bother changing the piston rings.odd to change the head and the block and not the other bits, surely cheaper to buy a new engine when labour is considerd OP get a compression test done.

kona

Fishtits wrote: »

PPS VW came out with some rubbish about their small petrol engines being oil thirsty and normal... again rubbish, an engine shouldn't burn oil, end of IMHO.

Rubbish, all cars lose some oil, just depends on how to drive them, A car uses more oil at high RPM than if its driven sedately.

Although your right about the VW bollix, german cars are ****e.

Anan1

kona wrote: »

probably didnt bother changing the piston rings.odd to change the head and the block and not the other bits, surely cheaper to buy a new engine when labour is considerd OP get a compression test done.

AFAIK, when replacing the block, a BMW authorised service centre would also replace the pistons, conrods, and even crankshaft - a 'short' engine, basically. I'm not sure on this, though.

kona

Anan1 wrote: »

AFAIK, when replacing the block, a BMW authorised service centre would also replace the pistons, conrods, and even crankshaft - a 'short' engine, basically. I'm not sure on this, though.

youd expect bearings and seals, rings, etc. but the cost of this and labour...They would just put in a new engine. Either the OP isnt sure whta work they did or the Garage is full of ****e and did a poor job. I can see some garages re-using rings.judging by the repairs, the garage doesnt have a clue.


id stick a thicker oil in and see, 1L per 600 miles is rediculous amount of oil, if it was the rings id expect blue smoke.

OP take out your spark plugs and see if they are have a bluey oily residue on them. Check around the exhaust for a film of oil(dirt sticks to it real easy so itl be filthy)

Anan1

kona wrote: »

youd expect bearings and sals, rings, etc. but the cost of this and labour...They would just put in a new engine. Either the OP isnt sure whta work they did or the Garage is full of ****e and did a poor job. I can see some garages re-using rings.

The way I think it would work is that they would just order in a 'short' engine and would then refit the head and ancillaries to that.

kona

Anan1 wrote: »

The way I think it would work is that they would just order in a 'short' engine and would then refit the head and ancillaries to that.

yes, id say thats what they would do, if thats the case, there isnt much that can go wrong, unless the OP thrashed the engine when it was bedding in.

bushy...

Fishtits wrote: »

Any car using a Litre of oil every 600 miles is a dud in my book. Absolutely unacceptable. Stand your ground. Serious problem there.

PS, I drive a donkeys year old BMW that has never required a top up between its services.

200K miles on, I'd expect no less.

PPS VW came out with some rubbish about their small petrol engines being oil thirsty and normal... again rubbish, an engine shouldn't burn oil, end of IMHO.

Spot on IMHO , some engines will use a relatively tiny amount of oil though.

Few things I can think of during assembly that may have caused it :

Broke rings , or threw a few away!! ( yip have seen it !! )
Damaged oil rings
Rings in upside down
Ring gaps
Didn't do valve seals
Damaged new valve seals
Valve guides wrecked , made a mess of fitting new ones
Wrecked turbo ( if it has one )
(Depends on engine ) Cracked block
Deep scratch on head / block between oil passageway and something.
Crankcase ventilation system connected up wrong way
Crack in head
Bad running in procedure ( too gentle can polish bores n rings )
Bad bore/honing job on cylinders
Cylinder vs piston&ring size mismatched
Internal "core plug" left out of engine

bushy...

kona wrote: »

yes, id say thats what they would do, if thats the case, there isnt much that can go wrong, unless the OP thrashed the engine when it was bedding in.

Depends on what you call thrashing and how early you do it ,entirely the opposite really as far as making rings seal - too gentle treatment for too long will make it use oil.

kona

bushy... wrote: »

Depends on what you call thrashing and how early you do it ,entirely the opposite really as far as making rings seal - too gentle treatment for too long will make it use oil.

From reading manufacturers handbooks, they usually say dont put the engine under excessive load or rev above X RPM(usually 3k AFAIK) for X Miles(2k i do believe)

What id call thrashing, revving over 54-5k on a regular basis, reving up in 1st gear, wheel spins, towing weight etc.

Didnt know about being too gentle polishing the bores, Thats my somthing New Learned!

Tom1974

Cheers, thanks for the replies. This car has only had one previous owner from new and the salesman said it could have been driven too hard in the breaking-in period.

I have a letter from the bmw garage confirming that the had replaced the block due to piston bore wear. Before the car had the block replaced I was getting roughly aroun 600 miles per litre. Now I'm getting 350 miles.

The warranty on the car expired last december, however the problem still existed. I was informed that the total cost of putting in a new engine block was €7000, and BMW wanted me to pay for half. I refused as the original fault diagnosed under warranty was not repaired. After a few weeks they backed down and confirmed that they would cover the full cost.

I understand that the garage has been fair in their dealings with me, but how many times do I need to keep sending the car back for repair? I paid a premium price for this car and feel let down by the whole experience.

What do you think my next step should be?

Anan1

What do the garage propose doing next? I'm a bit wary of going legal, as they do seem to want this problem resolved as much as you do.

Tom1974

Apparently they have to consult BMW Ireland to see what the next step is. If it is another repair, I have no confidence that it will fix the problem as I have been in this position so many times with this car.

Stevie Dakota

I would be pushing for a like for like replacement at this stage, given that (despite their best efforts) they have been unable to solve the problem.

cianclarke

Although that's some crazy oil consumption, I'm amazed that they've spent so much on the car! They really have plowed money into it, and I'd hate to think of the position you'd be left in if you had purchased privately...

Tom1974

Yep. They have spent a lot on the car, and that was my point when I asked for a replacement car. They told me they would not replace the car. The present position I am in is that I have a car I can't sell and also cannot trade in!:(

At the time I paid €18,500 for the car. The dealer currently has an
04 Audi A3 for sale at €12,850 and I would take this as a replacement. Do you think I should chance my arm and ask??

Idbatterim

what model and how old is the car?

Tom1974

My car is a 2002 316i. I bought it in November 2007.

kona

Tom1974 wrote: »

Cheers, thanks for the replies. This car has only had one previous owner from new and the salesman said it could have been driven too hard in the breaking-in period.

I have a letter from the bmw garage confirming that the had replaced the block due to piston bore wear. Before the car had the block replaced I was getting roughly aroun 600 miles per litre. Now I'm getting 350 miles.

The warranty on the car expired last december, however the problem still existed. I was informed that the total cost of putting in a new engine block was €7000, and BMW wanted me to pay for half. I refused as the original fault diagnosed under warranty was not repaired. After a few weeks they backed down and confirmed that they would cover the full cost.

I understand that the garage has been fair in their dealings with me, but how many times do I need to keep sending the car back for repair? I paid a premium price for this car and feel let down by the whole experience.

What do you think my next step should be?

I wonder if they bored it out and fitted sleeves and didnt fit matching pistons, or just bored it out and refitted the pistons. 7k sounds a bit pricey for a short engine TBH

Stevie Dakota

I can't see them wanting the car back as they will only have trouble down the line when they sell it. Unless they let it go to trade. I suspect you may have to get solicitors involved.

The bottom line is the car still has a major problem, is not fit for purpose and they have not fixed it.

EPM

Tom1974 wrote: »

At the time I paid €18,500 for the car. The dealer currently has an 04 Audi A3 for sale at €12,850 and I would take this as a replacement. Do you think I should chance my arm and ask??

Think maybe a bit overpriced then for yours and its not worth as much as the Audi - they might do you a good price to swap though

Tom1974

Yeah it was expensive at the time. It was part of the BMW premium selection used cars. I thought I was doing the right thing at the time of buying:(

kona

Tom1974 wrote: »

Yeah it was expensive at the time. It was part of the BMW premium selection used cars. I thought I was doing the right thing at the time of buying:(

Lesson learned, I wont be buying a BMW....ever.

cianclarke

kona wrote: »

Lesson learned, I wont be buying a BMW....ever.

I'm still surprised that on a used 2002 car they've pumped this much money into it in the first place.
I don't think this one example of a BMW is representative of the entire model range - either of their premium used, or private used car market. If you're willing to rule out such a quality marquee because of the experiences of one boardsie, eh, your loss tbh...

kona

cianclarke wrote: »

I'm still surprised that on a used 2002 car they've pumped this much money into it in the first place.
I don't think this one example of a BMW is representative of the entire model range - either of their premium used, or private used car market. If you're willing to rule out such a quality marquee because of the experiences of one boardsie, eh, your loss tbh...

Ha Ive ruled anything "premium" and german out as from looking at boards, and talking to people who own them, they are heaps of ****e, just expensive trouble.
Im not suprised they pumped the money in, clearly it was a **** repair TBH, they should just drop in a new engine and be done with it.
The reason they are spending the money is because they dont want a BMW driving around with blue smoke everywhere...not a good advert. Neither do they want it broke down at the side of the road.

Any mercs or BMW from late 90s on seem to be heaps. Not sure on Audi, but since they are VAG i wouldnt touch them either.

Stevie Dakota

cianclarke wrote: »

I'm still surprised that on a used 2002 car they've pumped this much money into it in the first place.
I don't think this one example of a BMW is representative of the entire model range - either of their premium used, or private used car market. If you're willing to rule out such a quality marquee because of the experiences of one boardsie, eh, your loss tbh...

I would agree with Kona, this is not one owner or one car, BMW's have problems throughout the range, well documented and repeated over the years. I was a lifelong fan and owner but would not go near one now.

Tom1974

I'm thinking of writing to the managing director of the dealership and also to BMW Ireland explaining that at this stage it's gone beyond a joke and that they should either refund me or offer a replacement. I'm a bit reluctant to go down the legal route as this could take years:(

Anan1

I think a more reasonable approach might be to demand a brand new engine?

Darragh29

Does your car have a turbo??? Is the exhaust excessively smoky???

It's a 316i so no turbo. This is really mind boggling as it sounds like pretty much all the engine is new now. Do the Beemers have a front mounted oil cooler?

Stevie Dakota

Darragh29 wrote: »

Does your car have a turbo??? Is the exhaust excessively smoky???

OP said it was a 316i. Unlike the 2.2 the four pots have no reputation for using oil.

Anan1

Darragh29 wrote: »

Does your car have a turbo??? Is the exhaust excessively smoky???

I'd be amazed if they replaced the head, then fitted a short engine, and all the time kept refitting a worn turbo? Could they have?

reverandkenjami

What sort of mileage is on the car? 316's don't have Turbo's so we can rule that one out!

Tom1974

The current mileage is 72000.

Johnboy Mac

Tom1974 wrote: »

I'm thinking of writing to the managing director of the dealership and also to BMW Ireland explaining that at this stage it's gone beyond a joke and that they should either refund me or offer a replacement. I'm a bit reluctant to go down the legal route as this could take years:(

Well if you do as I originally advised and go to you solicitor, a solicitors letter will generate a response in writing and then you'll have some idea of where you stand and what action is going to be taken or not by your dealer (good chance they are hoping you are just going to get feed up and disappear). What have you got to lose? Your car is unsaleable strickly speaking. I suspect BMW Ireland would forward your letter to the selling/repairing dealer and very understandably.

Anan1

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

Well if you do as I originally advised and go to you solicitor, a solicitors letter will generate a response in writing and then you'll have some idea of where you stand and what action is going to be taken or not by your dealer (good chance they are hoping you are just going to get feed up and disappear). What have you got to lose? Your car is unsaleable strickly speaking. I suspect BMW Ireland would forward your letter to the selling/repairing dealer and very understandably.

A solicitors letter is a double-edged sword, IMO - it may give the garage a push, but all goodwill will be lost. Given their investment so far in putting the car right, I suspect they want to get the job done as much as the OP. The legal route can be very good against unwillingless, far less so in the face of well-intentioned ineptitude. Just my 2c.

Johnboy Mac

Anan1 wrote: »

A solicitors letter is a double-edged sword, IMO - it may give the garage a push, but all goodwill will be lost. Given their investment so far in putting the car right, I suspect they want to get the job done as much as the OP. The legal route can be very good against unwillingless, far less so in the face of well-intentioned ineptitude. Just my 2c.

You've a point, sure. But this is going on for 2 years........................and a reasonably straight forward fault like excessive oil consumption can't be cured and the problem is getting worse and to compound this problem the dealer states that a replacement head and block (short motor, I presume) was fitted, very strange indeed. Love to see the original head and block.
Each to their own I suppose, some people have more faith and trust that others.