HSE send Bully Debt Collector to my Door

aboutjo1

I received a very unwelcome door knock on Friday last. It was from a Debt collection agency working on behalf the HSE.

He claimed I owe the HSE 50 euros for an A & E visit I have absolutely no recollection of.

Apparantly I have two weeks to pay up for else he "will be back, not alone and wont be leaving without the money"

Has anyone else any experience of this? Im considering reporting this matter to the Gardai.

Has anyone any advice on this?

raptorman

He probably doesn't work for the HSE at all. I was in A&E a two months ago and it as 100 or 120 Euro standard fee as far as I can remember.

Call the Guards would be my advice.

Nody

Let me get this straight, you're complaining that a DEBT COLLECTOR is not nice to you and ask you to pay an outstanding amount? What did you expect a debt collector did, come over with flowers, parfume and do your garden while kindly asking you to please consider to pay of 1c a year on the debt?

Ask for the back up of the debt, if it is correct then pay it, end of.

aboutjo1

Sorry I should have said he was only working on behalf of HSE. He claimed to work for an agency called Cash Flow Services.

Think I'll make a phone call to my local Gardai. Just a little frightened in case I do have an outstanding debt.

raptorman

I'd be a little more worried if couldn't remember being to A&E to be honest!

aboutjo1

Nody wrote: »

Let me get this straight, you're complaining that a DEBT COLLECTOR is not nice to you and ask you to pay an outstanding amount? What did you expect a debt collector did, come over with flowers, parfume and do your garden while kindly asking you to please consider to pay of 1c a year on the debt?

Ask for the back up of the debt, if it is correct then pay it, end of.

Let me get this straight. I have no recollection of ever been to the A & E department of the hospital in years. Are you suggesting that I hand over money to anybody that calls to my door threatening to beat me?

Sleipnir

Have you contacted the HSE about it? Asked for a copy of the bill and why you've never received one?

jor el

Did he have your name right, and did he have any official letters or bills form the HSE? Did you receive any bills from the HSE in the last few months?

It hasn't been 50 euro for A&E admission in years, it was 70 up until last year, and it's now 100.

Don't pay anything until you have an actual bill (that you can confirm) from the HSE. You should contact them yourself, and see if there's anything to it.

eden_my_ass

aboutjo1 wrote: »

Sorry I should have said he was only working on behalf of HSE. He claimed to work for an agency called Cash Flow Services.

Think I'll make a phone call to my local Gardai. Just a little frightened in case I do have an outstanding debt.

If you're concerned about the potential debt, shouldn't you call the HSE first and enquire as to where this debt arose from?

engrish?

aboutjo1 wrote: »

Let me get this straight. I have no recollection of ever been to the A & E department of the hospital in years. Are you suggesting that I hand over money to anybody that calls to my door threatening to beat me?

Its ok, people on the internet are quick to blame, throw their hands in the air and scream about how idiotic you are. Ignore them and take the good advice.

Normally you would get an invoice in the post, followed by several other invoices. If you have no recollection of this then I would think this could b e mistaken identity or a scam. I would call the Gardai and if they come back, ask for ID and a copy of the invoice, you will then need time to tell if its legit.

Cabaal

eden_my_ass wrote: »

If you're concerned about the potential debt, shouldn't you call the HSE first and enquire as to where this debt arose from?

I'd agree, please don't waste Gardai time on something that they will not assist you with anyway

aboutjo1

Sleipnir wrote: »

Have you contacted the HSE about it? Asked for a copy of the bill and why you've never received one?

I have contacted them. The HSE have said they have multiple debt collection agencys. I am awaiting a phone call from someone who is investigating the matter.

delly

aboutjo1 wrote: »

threatening to beat me?

Wait, did he actually say he would physically assault you, or are you making a giant leap of an assumption?

aboutjo1

Yes in words I would rather not repeat. He suggested the next time he called he would beat me.

seamus

You are not under any obligation to answer your door to debt collectors nor to hand over any cash to them, regardless of how much they kick and scream.

I would report the matter to the Gardai as he was clearly threatening you, regardless of whether or not the debt exists.

eden_my_ass

aboutjo1 wrote: »

Yes in words I would rather not repeat. He suggested the next time he called he would beat me.

Ok, thats a whole seperate issue, and yes you should report that to the Gardai

ejmaztec

If the meat-head is genuine, I wonder if you get free medical treatment were he to beat you to a pulp on your doorstep?

tallaght01

Nody wrote: »

Let me get this straight, you're complaining that a DEBT COLLECTOR is not nice to you and ask you to pay an outstanding amount? What did you expect a debt collector did, come over with flowers, parfume and do your garden while kindly asking you to please consider to pay of 1c a year on the debt?

Ask for the back up of the debt, if it is correct then pay it, end of.

Hang on. Lots of people can't afford to pay for their healthcare. Whether they're pensioners, addicts or people who've just fallen on hard times...it's a sad day when we send round thugs to people who are struggling to pay a bill for their health!

I know the OP doesn't think the bill is legit, but I'm just saying.

Mena

aboutjo1 wrote: »

Yes in words I would rather not repeat. He suggested the next time he called he would beat me.

Get onto the Gardai immediately. Wether or not you owe the money is now of secondary concern.

Under Section 11 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 it is an offence to demand payment of a debt in a way designed to alarm, distress or humiliate. This also covers both blackmail and extortion. (Extortion means using intimidation or the threat of violence to obtain money, information or anything else of value from another person).
If someone is charged with this offence and it is tried as a summary offence (that is, in a District Court by a judge only) the maximum penalty is €1,270 and or 12 months imprisonment. If someone is charged with this offence and it is tried as an indictable offence (that is, in the Circuit Criminal Court or Central Criminal Court before a judge and jury) the maximum penalty is a fine and or 14 years imprisonment.

More info here.

aboutjo1

ejmaztec wrote: »

If the meat-head is genuine, I wonder if you get free medical treatment were he to beat you to a pulp on your doorstep?

Nice to see someone got amusement out of it. I wonder if the same person would see the funny side of it if put in the same situation.

Received a phone call from the HSE and the debt collection agency is in fact legit. They deny any threatening behaviour however.

I do in fact have an outstanding debt on their record and they are going to let me know what it is for. I am however certain I do not owe any money.

O'Coonassa

aboutjo1 wrote: »

Yes in words I would rather not repeat. He suggested the next time he called he would beat me.

You should have sent him to A+E lol

jor el

aboutjo1 wrote: »

Received a phone call from the HSE and the debt collection agency is in fact legit. They deny any threatening behaviour however.

If you're talking to the HSE again, tell them you have referred the actions of their agent to the Gardai, and you will be naming the HSE as co-defendant in the civil suit you're taking against the debt collection agent, for the stress you suffered due to their bully-boy tactics and threats of physical violence leveled against you. See what they say to that.

If you do decide to take further action, Gardai or civil action, have no further contact with them until you consult a solicitor.

joey54

Also write down every dongle piece of information that you can remember in relation to him calling to your door and any phone calls you have made or received from the HSE. Try to get the names of the people you are talking to as well.

It might seem silly but could become very important if things get messy.

calex71

HSE have a bloody cheek in regards charging people for treatment, what the hell are we paying taxes for :mad:

Cabaal

calex71 wrote: »

HSE have a bloody cheek in regards charging people for treatment, what the hell are we paying taxes for :mad:

So you expect all health care for free?
You may want it this way but this is not reality, if you go to an ER and are charged for it its only right you pay

calex71

Cabaal wrote: »

So you expect all health care for free?
You may want it this way but this is not reality, if you go to an ER and are charged for it its only right you pay

It a public service NOT a private one and as such is funded by the tax payer so yes I do feel I have a right to free basic health care, If i went to a private hospital then yes i would expect pay vhi / fees etc.

In the UK even a gp visit is free and the most you will pay for nhs scheme drugs is £7, the reality here is this isnt even remotely possible here due to the extent the government and hse have squandered health funding

Cabaal

calex71 wrote: »

It a public service NOT a private one and as such is funded by the tax payer so yes I do feel I have a right to free basic health care, If i went to a private hospital then yes i would expect pay vhi / fees etc.

In the UK even a gp visit is free and the most you will pay for nhs scheme drugs is £7, the reality here is this isnt even remotely possible here due to the extent the government and hse have squandered health funding

NHS is a different system to that of Ireland so you can't compare it when its nothing alike.

Bottom line is if you receive chargable services from the HSE you myust pay for them, why should I and everyone else in the country pay for them and you get them for free?

So while I understand where your coming from it doesn't change reality that a charge is still valid and accordingly must be paid, the HSE is doing nothing illegal by referring a unpaid bill to a debt collections agency.

Of course iof the Debt Collection Agency is not handling it very well thats a separate issue altogether.

jhegarty

Cabaal wrote: »

So you expect all health care for free?
You may want it this way but this is not reality, if you go to an ER and are charged for it its only right you pay

Well as the OP didn't get any health care I would hope it would be free.

Cabaal

jhegarty wrote: »

Well as the OP didn't get any health care I would hope it would be free.

Has the OP even confirmed 100% that they didn't receive healthcare?

Sizzler

I'm amazed the thread has got this far without anybody suggesting you contact the employer of the guy that called to the door ?

http://www.cashflowservices.com/contactus/contactus.asp

Tell them what your position is and indeed confirm if this goon is even working for them, its not beyond the realms of possibility that he was chancing his arm and hoping a little old lady answered the door and simply handed over the €50 for fear of him calling back....

ScouseMouse

calex71 wrote: »

It a public service NOT a private one and as such is funded by the tax payer so yes I do feel I have a right to free basic health care, If i went to a private hospital then yes i would expect pay vhi / fees etc.

In the UK even a gp visit is free and the most you will pay for nhs scheme drugs is £7, the reality here is this isnt even remotely possible here due to the extent the government and hse have squandered health funding

Hey Cabaal, he does have a good point !!

adrem

Contact the guards re the threat - it's illegal

Contact the debt collection agency that the man allegedly works for - they will not tolerate their staff threatening people - it's illegal

Very odd that you would receive your first notification in this way. Also the HSE will not accept this type of behaviour from someone working on their behalf because (as you may have gathered) it's illegal

irishgrover

Cabaal wrote: »

Has the OP even confirmed 100% that they didn't receive healthcare?

I think that is almost a moot point (albeit a strange an interesting one ). If the agent of a state body (or anyone else for that matter) is threatening violence in any capacity whilst attempting to collect a debt then imho it becomes an immediate matter for the Gardai.

Furious_Daz

It might be worth reporting that guy to the collection company aswell. This is from their own website:

http://www.cashflowservices.com/codeofpractice/codeofpractice.asp

"Appointees will be instructed to avoid acrimony, contention and undue harassment and to act within the law at all times. Failure to comply with these instructions will result in their services being terminated."

I'm sure threating to beat the money out of you is considered against the law, they might take action against their own employee, (probably not but couldn't hurt to report him anyway!).

calex71

Cabaal wrote: »

NHS is a different system to that of Ireland so you can't compare it when its nothing alike.

Bottom line is if you receive chargable services from the HSE you myust pay for them, why should I and everyone else in the country pay for them and you get them for free?

So while I understand where your coming from it doesn't change reality that a charge is still valid and accordingly must be paid, the HSE is doing nothing illegal by referring a unpaid bill to a debt collections agency.

Of course if the Debt Collection Agency is not handling it very well thats a separate issue altogether.

Didn't mean to infer that the OP should not pay or indeed either you or i shouldn't pay if we went to hospital.

My point is why should they have the right to charge us for what our own tax euros already pay for.

Agreed the HSE is nothing like the NHS unfortunately even though that has its own issues too.

I know, i know, there will be no such thing as free health care for all in my life time

irishgrover

+ if the OP wanted to get on the radio this is classic Joe Duffy material

Lollipops23

i wouldn't put it past the HSE to have sent him to the wrong house. My stepdad got a letter telling him he needed tests on his heart(nearly gave him heart failure anyway as he hadn't even asked for tests!) turns out that it was sent the wrong person, with a totally different name!

seriously, if that's the case then i'd be even more angry!!getting threatened by a thug when it's not even the right person!ring the HSE or the debt collecion agency and tell them you're considering legal action for threats of GBH.

Guy:Incognito

tallaght01 wrote: »

Hang on. Lots of people can't afford to pay for their healthcare. Whether they're pensioners, addicts or people who've just fallen on hard times...it's a sad day when we send round thugs to people who are struggling to pay a bill for their health!

I know the OP doesn't think the bill is legit, but I'm just saying.

But f we just assume anyone who doesnt pay on the spot doesnt have it and let them off, why should any of us pay for anything?

dudara

Posters, please stick to the topic at hand. No divergent discussions on the government or public healthcare

OP, contact Cash Flow Services, and register a complaint about the behaviour of their agent.

Ask for all documentation that they have pertaining to your case.

dotsman

OP, not sure what the actual collection agents are like, but the girls working in the office are lovely!

You need to do 2 things here.

1. Firstly, contact Cashflow and ask them about the outstanding debt. Ask them why have you not received any letters or phone calls from them in relation to this debt (typically, the heavies are only called in after letters or phone calls go unanswered). There may be a case of mistaken identity?
2. Secondly, while contacting them, also notify them of their collectors behaviour. It is against their code of practice, and they do try to find that thin line between being polite and courteous while at the same time ensuring that the debtor doesn't think of them as a pushover. It is important that you are honest in your description of events and do not exaggerate as only make them take a defensive stance.

Elessar

The only people in the state legally able to forceably claim money from you are Sheriffs (public servants), and only with a court order.

Anyone calling to your door claiming to be a debt collector threatening you to pay has no right to be there. Tell them to get off your property, make a report about the threatening behaviour to the Guards and deal with the HSE directly if you do owe money.

dxhound2005

jor el wrote: »

Did he have your name right, and did he have any official letters or bills form the HSE? Did you receive any bills from the HSE in the last few months?

It hasn't been 50 euro for A&E admission in years, it was 70 up until last year, and it's now 100.

Don't pay anything until you have an actual bill (that you can confirm) from the HSE. You should contact them yourself, and see if there's anything to it.

It was never €50, it went from €45 to €55 in 2005. If the OP has a GP he/she might have some record of the hospital visit (if there was one) and it could be quicker to get it from them than the HSE. BTW if a GP refers a patient to A & E the charge does not apply, it's only for people who go directly to the hospital.

Just wonder if this debt (if it exists) is say 4 or 5 years old what is the legal position if the debtor was never asked for it before.

pred racer

dudara wrote: »

Posters, please stick to the topic at hand. No divergent discussions on the government or public healthcare

OP, contact Cash Flow Services, and register a complaint about the behaviour of their agent.

Ask for all documentation that they have pertaining to your case.

+1
I have gas alot of dealings with cashflow services before(unfortunately:o), and have found them to be easy to approach and to to deal with. I would go with the advice above.

Bob Z

if you did get get a beating from a debt collector that the HSE sent out and you ended up in hospitable would you then get a visit from another debt collector looking for you to pay your second hospitable bill?

Just wondering