Electrical stores refusing to lower prices and losing sales

WarrenB

I just had to post here what happened to me yesterday when I went on the hunt for a LCD TV (46"+). Judging by the amount of Sales around and the lack of people in the shops, I was under the impression stores would be biting your hand off for a cash sale.

First stop. DID Electrical. Seem a 46" Philips with Ambilight for 1999 euro with a free TV stand (worth 200 euro). After telling the senior sales guy that i was very interested but I didnt need the stand so could he do me a deal without the stand, he said 1850 was the lowest. I then pointed out that the stand was worth almost 200 euro so the max I would pay right now was 1825 euro. He refused. I then explained that he was close to losing the sale over 25 euro. Again he refused. I turned and walked out and he lost the whole sale over 25 euro !!! I was gobsmaked.

Next stop, Sony Centre. Seen a Sony 52" on Power City website for 1649 euro so I called the Sony centre and was told price for same TV was 1999 euro plus a free Blu Ray player. Arrived at Sony, only to be told there was actually no free Blu ray and the guy (the owner) had made a mistake. Explained that I can buy the same TV in Power City for 1649 euro. Owners face turned white when I then began to rattle off and pojnt out 500 euro differences between the TVs in his store and the deals on the Power city website. Off he went to look up the website.

After a lot of whispering amoung his colleagues, he came back with a price of 1899 for the Sony 52" TV and said he cant do it any cheaper. I was utterly amazed at the behaviour and refusal to do any deals whatsoever. I said ill head up to power city and again walked out.

Arrived at Power City, only to find a Philips 47" TV with Full HD for 949 euro. Bought it straight away. Also inquired about the Sony 52" TV and was told they would be delivered from Sony this week and were priced at 1649 euro.

Conclusions: I was utterly amazed at both the arrogance and the refusal to lower prices. I was ever more amazed at the loss of a sale because of 25 euro !!

Do these stores really think consumers are thick and dont check prices online ?

monkeytronics

You did the right thing. Both DID and Sony store know they've lost your business to another store. The more people who behave like you do, the sooner more shops begin to have flexibility towards their customers. Sadly, though, not everyone behaves like you.

Huge price difference between Power City and Sony there.

rubadub

WarrenB wrote: »

TV stand (worth 200 euro). he lost the whole sale over 25 euro !!! I was gobsmaked.

The stand was not worth 200, its just a marketing scam, so you cannot use that logic to say it was over €25. I know a guy works in a well known store, a mate wanted a TV and there was one for 900, with his staff discount he could only get a further €9 off it, which was apparently cost. He is a salesman and gets commission based on the profit of a sale. i.e. if he sold the TV he would only get a small % of that €9 profit. He goes mental with all the big sales on.

Now he and I know the shop are making more profit than they let on, which allows them to give him a smaller %. But these sales guys really can only let stuff go to a certain price. In fact my mate has sold things at a loss to customers, they would be buying several things so overall he is up commission.

I have always considered the sony centres to be simply showrooms for sony, very overpriced. Powercity are particularly cheap these days.

I was utterly amazed at both the arrogance and the refusal to lower prices.

They might have to sell at a loss to go to the prices you wanted.

Cabaal

How is this a consumer issue....alot more suited to rip-off Ireland

WarrenB

Cabaal wrote: »

How is this a consumer issue....alot more suited to rip-off Ireland

Its not that its a rip off. Its just some observations that consumers should be more price savvy to whats going on in stores like this.

Cabaal

WarrenB wrote: »

Its not that its a rip off. Its just some observations that consumers should be more price savvy to whats going on in stores like this.

I'd agree, The Nation Consumer Agency has been saying this for years they even ran billboard ads about it

But if a consumer is foolish enough to not shop around and use their own common sense then no amount of threads here or on any other site will change that.

Jip

Maybe it depends on the salesperson ? I was looking at a stero system last year and Powercity had it for about €30 cheaper than the Sony Store. Only problem was that the only 1 Powercity had it in stock at the time as was the opposite side of the city. However there was a Sony Store close to the office, went in there, told them the price Powercity had it for and they had no problem matching it for me and had it the next day.

Lollipops23

while i agree that everyone should shop around and vote with their feet, i also know that i am a lot less inclined to give discounts to customers who act really smug and lord their power over the sales assistant. if a customer is really genuine and simply looking for a discount then i will do everything i can do do them a good deal. however, if they're just rubbing it in my face that they're a customer with lots of power and i am merely a lowly assistant who's job is on the line i would rather see them walk away. no sale is worth your dignity.

Now i'm not saying you're that customer, perhaps you were lovely and genuine to the assistant. But i'm just proposing one of the reasons an assistant may clam up when making a deal.

WarrenB

Lollipops23 wrote: »

while i agree that everyone should shop around and vote with their feet, i also know that i am a lot less inclined to give discounts to customers who act really smug and lord their power over the sales assistant. if a customer is really genuine and simply looking for a discount then i will do everything i can do do them a good deal. however, if they're just rubbing it in my face that they're a customer with lots of power and i am merely a lowly assistant who's job is on the line i would rather see them walk away. no sale is worth your dignity.

Now i'm not saying you're that customer, perhaps you were lovely and genuine to the assistant. But i'm just proposing one of the reasons an assistant may clam up when making a deal.

I can understand this point, however in this case I merely pointed out to the sales assistants the cheaper deals on offer (as they were substantial) and I would have genuinely bought from them, had they made a reasonable effort. From my point of view it is clear these stores are in denial about the current recession.

I think in Ireland there is a sense of embarrassment about asking for a discount and a willingness to accept the in-store price (me included a few years back). Times have now changed, and I am way past that stage. I will haggle and if i dont get a deal, ill walk. Unfortunately these stores will end up closing down before they realize what they need to do.

Lollipops23

WarrenB wrote: »

I think in Ireland there is a sense of embarrassment about asking for a discount and a willingness to accept the in-store price (me included a few years back). Times have now changed, and I am way past that stage. I will haggle and if i dont get a deal, ill walk. Unfortunately these stores will end up closing down before they realize what they need to do.

haggling in many stores(like dept stores or chains) just won't work. in smaller shops/boutiques i'd say go for it. but i know myself that i just can't give out discounts willy nilly.the sales assistant probably didn't have the authority to discount it for no reason.

WarrenB

Lollipops23 wrote: »

haggling in many stores(like dept stores or chains) just won't work. in smaller shops/boutiques i'd say go for it. but i know myself that i just can't give out discounts willy nilly.the sales assistant probably didn't have the authority to discount it for no reason.

Yeah i agree, major stores and chains would not work. However I dont agree that there was no reason to discount, there was, it was cheaper elsewhere!

Also the sales assistant did have the authority to discount as in the case of DID, he went down to 1850 but would not budge and lost the sale for 25 euro below.

In the case of Sony, it was the owner i dealt with who absolutely refused to match anywhere near power city prices.

It just pi**s me off with the whole buy irish thing and the "poor" stores that are going out of business. If they got real and played ball, people would be more willing to do business with them. Their stubbornness will be there downfall and the reason people will have no pity.

rubadub

WarrenB wrote: »

However I dont agree that there was no reason to discount, there was, it was cheaper elsewhere!

If it is cheaper elsewhere then buy it there, sure -let them know and try and match it, but do not expect it. I think you are making the same assumption that so many make in the "ripoff" threads, you seem to presume that every shop is paying the exact same wholesale price and make the exact same profit on it. This is certainly not true with the UK and Ireland, though many wrongly calculate "overpricing" as though it was. But also in the same country retailers will have differing wholesale prices.

As I said the sony shops are like showrooms, they tend to be more spacious etc, probably higher overheads. They might not get the same prices as powercity.

The company I am in sells direct but also supplies catalogue companies with the exact same machines, the catalogues can get 40% off, and so can sell for cheaper than our own sales people can. People ring us and will say "I can get it for €20 less from the catalogue shop", and we just say "OK, we cannot match that, so you better go with them", we make a sale either way.

There was a thread a while ago with a lad asking some shop to match the UK price of a games console, the UK RRP could well be less than the irish wholesale price.

WarrenB wrote: »

Also the sales assistant did have the authority to discount as in the case of DID, he went down to 1850 but would not budge and lost the sale for 25 euro below.

They could have just broke even at that price, like I mentioned my mate where the profit was only €9 on a 42" plasma. Now I think the profit was more but as a salesman he could not reduce more than €9 or it comes out of his own pocket.

TheDriver

I got my stuff off richersounds and sams yer man in north, much cheaper than here and much better knowedlge and help about what i was buying

jackofalltrades

OP for a start the thread title is misleading. There are willing to lower their prices just not to a level your prepared to pay.

I've worked in IT sales and sold the odd flat screen TV. The margin on them is very low so the discounts you got of the stores you mentioned were probably quite reasonable.

WarrenB wrote:

I was ever more amazed at the loss of a sale because of 25 euro !!

25 Euro could mean the difference between making something/breaking even and making a loss on the deal.

I was always less likely to discount on sales where customers "rattled off", mainly in the hope that they went somewhere else and also for the fact that difficult pre-sales customers usually turned into nightmare after sales customers.

WarrenB

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I was always less likely to discount on sales where customers "rattled off", mainly in the hope that they went somewhere else and also for the fact that difficult pre-sales customers usually turned into nightmare after sales customers.

This quote sums up why with that mentality retailers are doomed to fail.

MOH

WarrenB wrote: »

This quote sums up why with that mentality retailers are doomed to fail.

Why? If someone's experience is that customers that are difficult pre-sale are even more so afterwards, then it makes sense not to want their custom. You're going to end up spending far more time dealing with that one person, when you could be dealing with other customers and making more sales. It might be worth it in the long run losing the sale to the difficult customer.

projectmayhem

Some of the problem from a consumer point of view is there is no transparency on what the shop can do in terms of discount. Most stores will try to match prices, but remember, Sony centre and power city probably buy the same product in different amounts from different locations, i.e. at different prices. So Power City might have more margin to play with simply because they bought at a lower price whereas Sony Centre could have bought it more expensive, thus selling a TV to you would loose them money.

Kensington

Powercity orders stock in bulk - sometimes thousands of units of just one particular model of television. They therefore are able to get a better deal on the bulk order from suppliers, which they can pass onto the consumer. The likes of Sony Centre's don't have the luxury of this bulk buying power, so don't get to avail of the types of bulk order discounts powercity do. Hence, it costs them more to source TVs than it does for powercity. Higher cost to buy from supplier = higher selling price to consumer to retain margins.

Also, Sony Centre's are only a franchise, IIRC. AFAIK Peats in Parnell Square operate two of the stores in Dublin.

who what when

Had a similar problem recently when i was looking for a new lens for my camera.

The particular lens was available for 165 sterling over the internet, but being the patriot that i am i was reluctant to buy from and english company. The problem however was that the cheapest i could get the particular lens in ireland was €300.

I then decided to make enquiries at a few different camera shops, explain the situation and see if they could do me a deal.
The result was that 2 shops refused to budge and 1 shop offered €20 reduction. In each case i said its ok i'l get the one on the net. And they all seemed happy to let me walk out money in pocket.

Its like they didnt want to sell it to me!!!

Welease

who what when wrote: »

Had a similar problem recently when i was looking for a new lens for my camera.

The particular lens was available for 165 sterling over the internet, but being the patriot that i am i was reluctant to buy from and english company. The problem however was that the cheapest i could get the particular lens in ireland was €300.

I then decided to make enquiries at a few different camera shops, explain the situation and see if they could do me a deal.
The result was that 2 shops refused to budge and 1 shop offered €20 reduction. In each case i said its ok i'l get the one on the net. And they all seemed happy to let me walk out money in pocket.

Its like they didnt want to sell it to me!!!

Maybe its a case that they can't afford to sell it at that price?

It's not fair to make judgements on one retailer vs. another until you have an understanding of their wage costs, bulk purchasing power, rents and outgoings, vat etc etc etc..

There are probably very good reasons why the Dublin shop can't match the price, and in some cases all they can offer in way of compensation is better service (you can test/look at items in advance, you don;'t have to ship internationally if there are issues etc).. as they will never be able to be competitive with warehouse bulk buying operations on price alone.

who what when

Welease - I understand that they will never be able to be competitive with warehouse bulk buying operations on price alone.
However when you put this situation to them they should make some sort of reasonable offer!

I know that if it was my shop i would more than likely offer the product at cost price in hope of future sales, rather than let a customer walk out in the knowledge they are going to buy somewhere else!!!

Gone Fishin

Hi there,
I was looking at buying a Playstation 3 and in Dublin its €399 for the basic console, thats from Argos, DID, Smyths, Currys etc. The cost of buying it in Argos in the UK is £293stg or €326 euro. I emailed Argos asking them about it and they said it was down to currency and the price at the time of catalogue printing. That's total crap! They have one centralised buying unit in the UK, so they are bought at the one price and they cut and drop prices all the time in their stores. Its a difference of over 22%. You could drive to the North, buy it and still have change left over after filling your car with fuel. None of the above mentioned stores are willing to negotiate on price. Is there a case of profiteering with these guys? Or are they seriously taking us for mugs??

Deerspotter

A salesman once told me that the best deal he does in a day is the one he walks away from.
If there's nothing but trouble, rudeness, hardship and no profit, what's the point?
If you know where the cheap stuff is, go get it there.
If you want a larger range, better opening times, higher quality go there.
If you want it all, go to the USA!!!

rubadub

who what when wrote: »

The result was that 2 shops refused to budge and 1 shop offered €20 reduction. In each case i said its ok i'l get the one on the net. And they all seemed happy to let me walk out money in pocket.

Its like they didnt want to sell it to me!!!

No, its like they wanted to make a profit. They are happy to see you walk out since they were not missing out on much. If it was worth their while they would do it.

who what when wrote: »

I know that if it was my shop i would more than likely offer the product at cost price in hope of future sales, rather than let a customer walk out in the knowledge they are going to buy somewhere else!!!

Selling at cost price means the shop loses money, admin costs and accounting, stock taking etc all costs money. In my company I heard the accounts dept saying it costs on average €25 to process a sale of certain items, this will obviously differ from company to company. If a customer came in harping on about online sales I would not expect much future business I would just accept that I CANNOT compete.

Gone Fishin wrote: »

They have one centralised buying unit in the UK, so they are bought at the one price and they cut and drop prices all the time in their stores.

Argos told you all that? or are you just presuming all this, like so many do. Many manufacturers force businesses to buy products from that countries distributors, levis would not knowingly supply an Irish jeans shop at US wholesale prices. Many would stop dealing with companies who did buy in one country to sell in one of their shops in another country.

dudara

You are entitled to make an offer.

The shop is entitled to reject that offer.

I would suggest that if they rejected the offer, then it isn't economically viable for them to accept, or whoever was in store on the day didn't have the authority to accept.

Don't get in a huff about it. Take your money and spend it where you will get the value that you want. Remember that value is subjective - i.e. what represents value to you need not neccessarily represent value to someone else.

knighted_1

Kensington wrote: »

Powercity orders stock in bulk - sometimes thousands of units of just one particular model of television. They therefore are able to get a better deal on the bulk order from suppliers, which they can pass onto the consumer. The likes of Sony Centre's don't have the luxury of this bulk buying power, so don't get to avail of the types of bulk order discounts powercity do. Hence, it costs them more to source TVs than it does for powercity. Higher cost to buy from supplier = higher selling price to consumer to retain margins.

Also, Sony Centre's are only a franchise, IIRC. AFAIK Peats in Parnell Square operate two of the stores in Dublin.

rubbish -in retailing in recent years profits are achevied by way of rebate -very low margins but a percentage (electrical roughly 6%) rebated when certain number of units sold in an agreed time period (usually 3 month cycles )
no real bulk discounts on selling price ,same price open to all retailers but not all can sell enuff to claim rebates -best time to try to get the best price is at the end of the retailers cycle when they might have to shift units to hit a target to claim rebate ,but good luck trying to find out when that is -only winner is the distributor ,

jimmycrackcorm

dudara wrote: »

You are entitled to make an offer.

The shop is entitled to reject that offer.

I would suggest that if they rejected the offer, then it isn't economically viable for them to accept, or whoever was in store on the day didn't have the authority to accept.

Don't get in a huff about it. Take your money and spend it where you will get the value that you want. Remember that value is subjective - i.e. what represents value to you need not neccessarily represent value to someone else.

I'll add to that by observing that the shop could sell the same item to someone who hasn't shopped around for a lower price therefore they are effectively choosing their customer for profitability instead. If no-one paid the prices asked they wouldn't last.

Kensington

knighted_1 wrote: »

rubbish -in retailing in recent years profits are achevied by way of rebate -very low margins but a percentage (electrical roughly 6%) rebated when certain number of units sold in an agreed time period (usually 3 month cycles )
no real bulk discounts on selling price ,same price open to all retailers but not all can sell enuff to claim rebates -best time to try to get the best price is at the end of the retailers cycle when they might have to shift units to hit a target to claim rebate ,but good luck trying to find out when that is -only winner is the distributor ,

Certainly the case in SOME cases for small items like kettles and toasters but it is not the case for the majority of large items like TVs, Home Cinema, large white goods etc.. So it is not, as you state, rubbish :rolleyes:

knighted_1

Kensington wrote: »

Certainly the case in SOME cases for small items like kettles and toasters but it is not the case for the majority of large items like TVs, Home Cinema, large white goods etc.. So it is not, as you state, rubbish :rolleyes:

please dont post if you are going to speculate ,the large items is where the money is in rebates ,cut off targets can be 300k in 3 months or less time if youre a bigger retailer with the ability to recoup bigger rebate so it will take you a long time to flog 300k of kettles - -who do you buy for ?

Neilw

franklyDublin wrote: »

It is unbelievable, we priced DID and a few others and no one would move on the ticket prices so we Googled 'Electrical Retailer Newry/Northern Ireland' and found Dalzell's of Markethill - www.armaghelectrical.com saved us 700 euros over three appliances.

Willing to deal, know their stuff and delivered for Free. They even had the stock and delivered next day. We're heading back up in a few weeks to get a new telly, worth the trip.:cool:

Another recommendation for Dalzels, 599euro for a bosch dish washer here, 389 sterling delivered from Dalzels. Also saved about 60 euro's on a drier.

Another example was the 40" panasonic G10 plasma was 1199stg in currys in Newry and 999stg in Dalzels

Kashkai

I haven't bought any major electrical appliance in this country for years. Much cheaper to go north or better yet, buy online from the likes of Richersounds in Belfast. Excellent customer service before, during and after the deal is done, unlike down here in de South where some sales reps treat you with contempt if you dare to ask a question about the specs of a tv, never mind ask for a discount (hello DID salesmen in Newbridge and Lucan - haven't seen you in years!).

If companies in this country already have their prices stripped to the bone, then they should have another look at their business model to find out where they are going wrong. I've spent about €5k on tvs, av amps, satellite equipment etc in the north but it was still a hell of a lot cheaper than buying them down here. One example was my Samsung Series 6 that I bought from Richersounds in Belfast last July. At that time, this tv was priced at €2,000 in both Power City and DID (there's competition for ya :rolleyes:) but I bought it for €1,200 in Richersounds, and that was with free delivery to my house in Kildare. €800 is a hell of a price difference, so the typical bullsh1t that retailers spout here about the higher cost of business in this country still can't explain away a price difference of €800.

I made a thread over in the Louth forum about a D.I.D sale that was on and how I went about (trying to) get stores to beat one another on price.

Just thought i'd link to it here as it may be of some use to people reading this thread.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055582594

I may be wrong but isn't there a rule that sony (and other similar retailers) can't sell their own products lower than the RRP? Maybe €1899 was the RRP? just a thought.

You were dead right to shop around though OP.

catch88

Not sure if them not lowering prices has anything to do with this but i worked in a department store and the reason why our staff discountt was comparitively low on electrical goods (7%) compared to say clothing (20%) was because the mark up on eletrical is alot lower than other goods.

punchdrunk

who what when wrote: »

Had a similar problem recently when i was looking for a new lens for my camera.

The particular lens was available for 165 sterling over the internet, but being the patriot that i am i was reluctant to buy from and english company. The problem however was that the cheapest i could get the particular lens in ireland was €300.

I then decided to make enquiries at a few different camera shops, explain the situation and see if they could do me a deal.
The result was that 2 shops refused to budge and 1 shop offered €20 reduction. In each case i said its ok i'l get the one on the net. And they all seemed happy to let me walk out money in pocket.

Its like they didnt want to sell it to me!!!

what lens was it? where did you buy the camera?