Why not more Irish Drama Series?

Sleazus

I have to admit, this has been bothering me quite a while.

How come RTE can't produce a single high-quality multi-seasonal drama? I know they aren't the Beeb, but the only drama they've produced in the past few years to get a second season was Raw, which seems patronisingly pitched towards the twirty-somethings ("it's hip, it's hot, it's the life of young professionals in the city!"). Why can't we have a show that runs once a year and has a more broad-based appeal?

Is just that there's never any submitted during the annual commissioning period, or is it a conscious decision by the State broadcaster. Surely the money's there - we can import enough American shows. I love Lost and my family loves Desperate Housewives, but we can get both of them elsewhere. The only place we'd find original Irish drama would be our national broadcaster (or TV3, but RTE is the one getting government money).

Elmo

RTÉ will state that it is far to expensive to produce quality drama hence the lack of Drama on RTÉ.

TV programmes from the US cost from 2,000 - 3,000 euro per hour while one episode of RAW or the Clinic can cost from 300,000 to 500,000 euro, you can see why they buy in US Drama's.

As for TV3 people have to get it out of their head that they don't get the Licence fee it doesn't remove the fact that they are a successful TV channel that could produce Drama. The are planning one based on an Oscar Wilde play based in Modren day Ireland, however this is co-funded by the Sound and Vision Fund which is supported by the License Fee. School Run was also co-funded by the License Fee.

In saying that changes do need to be made. In particular their needs to much more of an enphasis placed on writing, RTÉ should fund writers to develop their ideas. RAW was average because it lacked development.

RAW and The Clinic will return to RTÉ in the autumn. TV3 will have their drama. while TG4 will continue to produce Seacht and some other mini serials. All of which get money from the license fee.

As for TV3 again they should at least produce a Soap Opera which would fit in well with their ITV soaps.

4Xcut

I reckon it's the same reason that RTE can't do anything that they can't do.

Anyone who is from Ireland and has talent will eventually leave, sooner or later. There are very few who stay. Why? They can get paid more money and have a greater choice of things to work on in Britain or America. Moving to England is not the big move it used to be, hell, you cna live here and work there if you have to money to fly over and back every week.

There isn't the incentivee to stay here. That's why Dara O'Briain left, that's why a lot of talent leaves Ireland. It's also the same reason our TV talent shows are rubbish, most people with actual talent leave and go on one of the English ones as they know that there's a large enough audiance to make it worth it.

Having said that, RTE should still attempt to make one. Hell, all they need is one great show and they can fecking sell it. Not even for much at first, but if it becomes popular abroad, then there is a reason for talented people to be in it as they will get a wide audiance.

Elmo

4Xcut wrote: »

Having said that, RTE should still attempt to make one. Hell, all they need is one great show and they can fecking sell it. Not even for much at first, but if it becomes popular abroad, then there is a reason for talented people to be in it as they will get a wide audiance.

The Clinic is sold around the world. In 1980 RTÉ had success with Strumpet City, a period drama about the 1913 lock out.

Yes people can move to England but will they be as successful? There are only a handful of successful Irish people in England (they all have some connection with Irish TV). Talented people need a starting point weather that be RTÉ, TV3 or TG4.

One success isn't enough, you need full programme schedule a few bad ones, a few good ones and at least one successful one.

Sleazus

RAW and The Clinic will return to RTÉ in the autumn.

I'm not sure I'd consider The Clinic a drama series proper. It's more Casualty than ER or even Chicago Hope.

As for TV3 people have to get it out of their head that they don't get the Licence fee it doesn't remove the fact that they are a successful TV channel that could produce Drama.

I'm not saying that it can't come from TV3 - I can just understand why they are less likely to be adventurous, being a solely commercial entity. RTE is also driven by revenue to an extent, but it is a public broadcaster and - I realise maybe I'm being too naive and idealistic here - is mandated to broadcast in the public interest. That means more than a truly top-notch current affairs department.

In 1980 RTÉ had success with Strumpet City, a period drama about the 1913 lock out.

Yep, it was incredible and hugely influential, but that was 1980. I don't think we've produced anything of similar quality since (though, in fairness one-off drama and mini-series have tried with mixed results). The fact that we can sell The Clinic abroad surely indicates Irish drama might warrant a bit of development?

Elmo

Sleazus wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd consider The Clinic a drama series proper. It's more Casualty than ER or even Chicago Hope.

I would give it more credit than Casualty, I would put it between Casualty and ER. Certainly well above Grey's.......

Sleazus

Certainly well above Grey's.......

Ah, but Grey's isn't what it used to be...

... or so I hear...

Elmo

Sleazus wrote: »

Ah, but Grey's isn't what it used to be...

... or so I hear...

Neither is the clinic :eek:

Elmo

Sleazus wrote: »

I'm not saying that it can't come from TV3 - I can just understand why they are less likely to be adventurous, being a solely commercial entity. RTE is also driven by revenue to an extent, but it is a public broadcaster and - I realise maybe I'm being too naive and idealistic here - is mandated to broadcast in the public interest. That means more than a truly top-notch current affairs department.

But TV3 have to compete with RTÉ with all types of programmes. RTÉ have had it easy with TV3 and TV3 have had it easy with their audience. If TV3 produced a soap of the quality of Ros Na Run, you would see Fair City's quality improve. This why TV3 have been set up, to compete with RTÉ. I would rather see TV3 produce 30% of their programming in prime time rather then anytime.

4Xcut

Elmo wrote: »

The Clinic is sold around the world. In 1980 RTÉ had success with Strumpet City, a period drama about the 1913 lock out.

Yes people can move to England but will they be as successful? There are only a handful of successful Irish people in England (they all have some connection with Irish TV). Talented people need a starting point weather that be RTÉ, TV3 or TG4.

One success isn't enough, you need full programme schedule a few bad ones, a few good ones and at least one successful one.

Didn't know about the clinic being sold around the world. Why can't we do it more often though?

mike65

RTE is put to the pin of its collar right now with the ad revenue collapse, you can forget any new drama (bar the odd short hand held video stuff that pops up on RTE 2).

Elmo

4Xcut wrote: »

Didn't know about the clinic being sold around the world. Why can't we do it more often though?

As already pointed out The Clinic is a very average drama and like US TV it lack any really culturally specific characters or stories hence it can travel. I think it is sold into about 10 countries.

RAW is the same I expect RTÉ expect to sell it abroad, but you need more episodes other TV stations want to fill a 20 week block rather then a 10 or 6 week block. Breakthrough was only made with the clinic after season 2.

Unlike other Irish Drama's which are very culturally specific e.g. Batchelor's Walk (season 1 was co-funded by BBC for BBC Choice) and Pure Mule is very Irish, very good but unlikely to sell abroad.

Sleazus

RTE is put to the pin of its collar right now with the ad revenue collapse, you can forget any new drama (bar the odd short hand held video stuff that pops up on RTE 2).

That's probably true, unfortunately, but it doesn't justify anything. A solid drama can be produced stateside from $1m an episode, so that's €715,000 here, give or take. A standard British season is 13 episodes, that's under €10m for a year. And, yes, it does sound like huge money, particularly now, but it would generate employment in sectors suffering at the moment, while fulfilling RTE's mandate to broadcast Irish programming.

Elmo

Sleazus wrote: »

That's probably true, unfortunately, but it doesn't justify anything. A solid drama can be produced stateside from $1m an episode, so that's €715,000 here, give or take. A standard British season is 13 episodes, that's under €10m for a year. And, yes, it does sound like huge money, particularly now, but it would generate employment in sectors suffering at the moment, while fulfilling RTE's mandate to broadcast Irish programming.

As pointed out RTÉ have to have a full slate of programming, News and Current Affairs, Chat Shows, Feature Programming, Documentary and sports which all employ people. All are cheaper to produce but all require money and are required as PSB

If they did produce a few dramas for International consumption they would get revenues from sales rather then worrying about Ad revenue. Ditto TV3 and TG4 (yes TG4 can produce a show as gealige with subtitles in what ever other language, Ros Na Run is sold to PBS in Philidephia and they are looking to sell africi international, their cartoons such as Skunk Fu have also seen some success.)

AnonoBoy

Elmo wrote: »

RAW is the same I expect RTÉ expect to sell it abroad, but you need more episodes other TV stations want to fill a 20 week block rather then a 10 or 6 week block. Breakthrough was only made with the clinic after season 2.

Raw was already a show that was made (in Scotland I believe) so I don't think it's theirs to sell on.

ScumLord

They don't try though. There's no need to spend half a million on a episode, there's no need to try and be like every other drama coming into the country.

They spend so much money trying to be like everyone else and play it safe they overlook all the talent in the country that's picked up in other countrys for being uniquely Irish.

Sleazus

I would agree that they don't try, but I do think that realistically it'd need to have some sort of tangible budget - it seems like a lot, but insurance and materials cut into a large portion of that budget. Add state-of-the-art equipment to it.

Talent should hopefully be cheap as we've got so much raw talent (actors, writers, directors with college/advertising experience) but very little high quality television drama talent (we don't have any real name TV actors, nor drama producers). I still think it'd need a big budget so as not to look like VHS quality Doctor Who. Even run-of-the-mill, real-world set shows have high price tag.

But it would so be worth it.

The figure of $1m/hour comes from The Wire, which I figure would be a close fit for any Irish drama. An hour long, no frills when it comes to technical specifications (no HD or widescreen), no big acting names (all solid talent though), very little set-based shooting. I figure, at the moment at least, any Irish drama would really have to build from that.

ScumLord

Sleazus wrote: »

I still think it'd need a big budget so as not to look like VHS quality Doctor Who. Even run-of-the-mill, real-world set shows have high price tag.

But there's no need for them to jump in at the deep end like that. They really do need to start at the foundations and work their way up. We'[ve had some great low budget comedy like paths to freedom and now there's Hardy bucks on the way up showing that if you get the fundamentals right budget is only an after thought.

I wouldn't give RTE the money for big dramas until they prove they can make good ones and get the most out of the money.

Elmo

ScumLord wrote: »

But there's no need for them to jump in at the deep end like that. They really do need to start at the foundations and work their way up. We'[ve had some great low budget comedy like paths to freedom and now there's Hardy bucks on the way up showing that if you get the fundamentals right budget is only an after thought.

I wouldn't give RTE the money for big dramas until they prove they can make good ones and get the most out of the money.

Problem is RTÉ have proved themselves on several occasions. As stated Strumpet City and many of their home grown dramas bar the soaps.

But the most important thing is writing talent, lets face it their is alot of badly acted well written productions coming from the US and the UK and they still work.

Currently anyone producing a Drama (for RTÉ, TV3 or TG4) need to have the backup of good writters willing to develop their shows.

Sleazus

Elmo wrote: »

But the most important thing is writing talent, lets face it their is alot of badly acted well written productions coming from the US and the UK and they still work.

I agree with that. Once you have a good story, decent pacing and reasonable dialogue, you've got a watchable show. If you add good acting, then you've got a great show.

I find it hard to believe that we can't produce a single great writing staff as an island of saints and scholars. That's what irks me, that we don't seem to have a pool of serialised television writers, even though we've been around decades.