Crash boxin'

Mycroft H

The thread about manuals vs autos got me thinking. Those that have a manual, do you ever not use the clutch when changing gears.

I know a fellow who dosnt use the clutch (up and down) between 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. He says he learnt to do it when he had a beetle with no clutch, and he could not afford to replace it. So no clutch for a year and a half.

I tried this a few times between 4 and 5th and it sort of worked. I dont do it that often as i'm not that good....

Anyone else mastered it?

Mr Benevolent

Keep your credit card in the car if you do it on a regular basis

Anan1

I used to do it years ago, I can hardly imagine it's good for the synchromesh..

Mitch Connor

Never tried and don't see a real need to either. I reckon I am fast enough on the cluch/gear change that it would not make much sense to not use it. split seconds in the difference I reckon and as I am not racing I don't need that time.

peasant

The only way you can shift gears without the clutch and without doing damage is to shift when the speed of the driveshaft and that of the gearbox are in perfect alignment. In that case the gear will just slide in without probs.

But in the flow of traffic it is almost impossible to find that spot for shiftig ...so you'll end up forcing it in and you'll have a toothless gearbox in no time at all.

Zube

I had to drive the OHs car home after the clutch cable snapped one time, and it's doable all right, but must be hard on the box if you're not just perfect.

deckie27

As peasant said its all about timing the speed and RPM. I do it quiet alot.
but to the OP
How did your friend start of from lights?

Anan1

deckie27 wrote: »

As peasant said its all about timing the speed and RPM. I do it quiet alot.
but to the OP
How did your friend start of from lights?

The key to driving a car with no clutch is don't ever stop.;) Rule two is always park on a hill.

deckie27

Anan1 wrote: »

The key to driving a car with no clutch is don't ever stop.;) Rule two is always park on a hill.

. I know thats why i asked the question

gofaster_s13

deckie27 wrote: »

As peasant said its all about timing the speed and RPM. I do it quiet alot.
but to the OP
How did your friend start of from lights?

If your clutch is gone your car won't drive, if your cable/hydraulic clutch system goes you have to start the car in gear and from there on change without the clutch by rev matching, if done right its very smooth with no lurch when changing gears.

hobochris

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

If your clutch is gone your car won't drive, if your cable/hydraulic clutch system goes you have to start the car in gear and from there on change without the clutch by rev matching, if done right its very smooth with no lurch when changing gears.

I had to do this on the OH's car when the clutch cable snapped.

hill start was a bitch.. handbrake off while turning the engine over and pump the accelerator lightly all at the once so the car starts off but doesn't shoot off...

ianobrien

I learnt to do it in a hire car....

The main problem is that it's quicker to change gear with the clutch.

For downchanges, I'd pull the car out of gear (eg 4th) and put a bit of pressure on the gearlever when it's heading for the other gear (3rd). I'd never put enough pressure to force it in. While the lever is against the 3rd gear, I'd blip the throttle to get the revs up. There will be a point in which the road speed & engine speed match for that gear and the gear lever ( and associated gears) will slide in.

For upchanges, the same principle applies, but if you don't get the change done in time, you'll be after slowing down so much that you'll have to go back into the original gear, or maybe down a gear.

After practice, it'll be a smooth gearchange but I never do it in a car that has a functioning clutch or my own cars. I feel that it's easier on the gears in the 'box

ianobrien, that's not a good way to do it. The key is to match the revs with gear on neutral before even touching the gear lever. Your way is only good on rental cars :-)

Mycroft H

deckie27 wrote: »

As peasant said its all about timing the speed and RPM. I do it quiet alot.
but to the OP
How did your friend start of from lights?

This was twenty or more years ago and in leitrim, so no traffic lights. To start he would either push it and get a bit of momentum or a friend would. He also had two bags of cement in the front as it was understeering in the wet. How times have changed.....

*Kol*

I managed to drive 50 miles before with no clutch just to get home. Miraculously I didn't have to stop on the way!!!

sogood

I would respectfully suggest that the clutch is fitted to the car to facilitate gearchanging, in the most effective and efficient way possible, ie; it's there for a reason. Would you buy a car with no keys on the basis that you "know how to hotwire"? Or maybe no back seats cos you never use them? Maybe dispense with the boot lid and back doors for that matter?

Seriously, you wouldnt buy a manual with a non existent clutch would you? Would you be swayed by some Arthur Daly shpiel along the lines of
" you dont really need a clutch, just extra unnecessary weight.....etc etc"

Do yourself and your car a favour, use your clutch, pleeeeaassssseeee.

Dartz

If you do it right, it'll do no harm, sure.

If you do it wrong, you'll destroy the synchro's, the dogs, or the gear teeth.

But unless you've no problems with your clutch, why? It's a ****ing bitch to do.

Buffman

Shhh, lads, keep it quite or revenue might try to charge extra VRT on our clutches as 'optional extras'!:D

alias no.9

It's perfectly possible to do smooth gearchanges while moving without using a clutch.
To disengage a gear you need to feather the throttle a little bit, then while lifting off gently push the gear lever into neutral.
For an up change, push the gear lever gently towards the gear you want to engage, as the revs fall and the engine speed matches the gearbox speed, it will engage, with practice, you can do this in one smooth motion.
For a down change, you need to rev the engine while moving through neutral then lift off, again you push the gear lever gently towards the gear you want to engage, as the revs fall and the engine speed matches the gearbox speed, it will engage.
If you miss the point where the engine speed matches the gearbox speed, just rev again, lift off and try again.

irisheddie85

is this not the same method as double declutching? So if you do it while changing gears with the clutch you get smoother changes and even less wear on cluth/gearbox?

Hermy

Just seen this thread and yeah, I use the clutch as little as possible.
It's a challenge to get the revs just right.

ianobrien

The thing is, no manual box fitted in cars now are designed for a clutch-less change. If they were, they would be dog 'boxes, which are a disaster for easy driving (but fun when the car's flat out....)

Slidey

Having driven several lorries with full crash boxes I find doing this rather easy.

Just get the revs right and a small bit of patience when going for the gear and it will just slot in.

The older mid nineties Transits were a doddle to do this in, plus the clutch ratchets used to give bother.

pburns

Re-reading a biography of Ayrton Senna atm. In the chapter covering his early years it tell how how his father caught him sneaking a drive in an off-roader on the family ranch when he was just eight years old. He scolded him but was then then amazed to notice he was changing gears smoothly despite the fact his feet couldn't reach the pedals.

The little blighter had figured out the whole syncromesh/engine note thing on his own...

At 8 years old!!

Orange69

pburns wrote: »

Re-reading a biography of Ayrton Senna atm. In the chapter covering his early years it tell how how his father caught him sneaking a drive in an off-roader on the family ranch when he was just eight years old. He scolded him but was then then amazed to notice he was changing gears smoothly despite the fact his feet couldn't reach the pedals.

The little blighter had figured out the whole syncromesh/engine note thing on his own...

At 8 years old!!

So how did they explain him using the brake and the gas pedal..? Am in missing something here?

Biro

Orange69 wrote: »

So how did they explain him using the brake and the gas pedal..? Am in missing something here?

I'm wondering that too! Changing gear clutchless will only get you so far without a throttle!

pburns

Orange69 wrote: »

So how did they explain him using the brake and the gas pedal..? Am in missing something here?

Biro wrote: »

I'm wondering that too! Changing gear clutchless will only get you so far without a throttle!

Well a clutch is pretty heavy and hard to depress all the way to the floor at that age in comparison to an accelerator or brake - I remember struggling with it myself at a young age.

Biro

pburns wrote: »

Well a clutch is pretty heavy and hard to depress all the way to the floor at that age in comparison to an accelerator or brake - I remember struggling with it myself at a young age.

On the tractor I overcame that by standing up on it!

galwaytt

Biro wrote: »

On the tractor I overcame that by standing up on it!

..that's what hand throttle's are for ! 8 yr olds !!

Terrontress

I learnt to do it the same way as Ian O'Brien described in my 97 Astra diesel.

If you try it enough and your car has a nice momentum it slips in and out of gear easily.

Getting out of gear is a lot more easy than selecting another. But once you learn the ways of the car it all comes easy.