Dollhouse - what went wrong?

Richard Dower

They say history repeats itself, and for Joss Wheadon this seems to be the harsh reality for his new Sc-Fi show on Fox. There was quite an early buzz about this show but during the latter part of 2008 rumours of problems with Fox and show producers spread online, later it was revealed the original pilot was scrapped and re-shoots ordered....never a good sign.

Initially Dollhouse was planned to launch during the latter part of the fall season but was then pushed back to February and with the news it was being assigned a place in the so-called "Friday night `death slot`" things seemed bleak from the very start.

With low ratings and mixed critical reaction it seems Dollhouse has gone the way of Firefly and set to be canned after just 12 episodes.

So where do you think the problem lay?, what factors contributed to it's downfall?...was the shows concept just too high brow and complex for the average viewer?

Opinions welcome.

Mr E

1) Fox changing the first few episodes.
2) Not a strong enough premiere (it was crap)
3) Friday night
4) Some awful filler episodes
5) Dushku

Where did it all go wrong? Well that's an easy one,setting the show up at Fox.

Just look at how they treated Whedon's buddy Tim Minear. Drive, The Inside, Wonderalls, K-Ville, Standoff all cancelled before they even got a chance. If Whedon really was serious about making a great show that had a chance he would has sought out a different network. I really hope that Dollhouse gets a second season.

Syferus

Well, from just about all sources the production itself ended up being nothing special - that failure isn't even mostly Fox's fault.

I've not watched any of it yet and am waiting for it to start on Sci Fi HD here in a couple of weeks, and if anything - remember this is me personally, not a slight on the show - the fact I only have to invest the time for twelve episodes is more conductive to viewing since I'm going in knowing what the score is.

Orion

Just watched ep12 and from the look of it there's no hope of any more. It's left open of course, but the current storyline was closed. Pity really - it is bubblegum tv but it was getting interesting. Maybe another network will pick it up. But nobody else picked up Firefly so I'm not hopeful. At the very least maybe Whedon will tell Fox to go an collectively **** themselves and never sign a contract with them again.

lostexpectation

fox

tvnutz

I know there were production problems etc but in this case it can only be Fox that is to blame. I watched every episode and it was okay,nothing amazing but you cannot dump a new show on a friday night and expect anything to happen. Friday night is where shows that are doing crap are dumped so they can just burn off the remaining episodes and be cancelled. You cannot put a new show there. The show was never given a chance. End of story.

Richard Dower

I also feel the issues in a large part stem from Fox, but moreso the interference that took place in the first 5 episodes. If anyone remembers we were all bitching and saying...ooh god it's gonna be a show about "mission of the week" with Echo, and that was true because it seem that this is what Fox wanted to push, to have Dushku kicking ass or dressed sexy each week.

But as we all know she is dire at character acting, she's not Victor/Enver...the first 11 episodes prove she can't adopt different characters to save her life. In addition as the show went on it was much more interesting when the show revolved around the Dollhouse itself or showcasing the other dolls.

I feel Fox wanted The Dushku Show, the hottie on the mission of the week...but Wheadon had a much better concept and it worked, from ep. 6 onward the show was great. But the damage had been done, the audience didn't like it nor tune in....we'll never know how things would have been different if Fox had not insisted on changes in the early part. But i can understand in part why a wider audience may not have liked it.

The nature of the Dollhouse is quite disgusting on many levels, the morality of it cannot be justified....rape and slavery have been brought up many times, a soul and religion also...what is the essence of a human being?, is it just the some of his/her memories...wiping a mind at will and the body being used for god knows what?

In many respects the Dollhouse was a high end whorehouse....one issue is that the Dollhouse's TRUE intent, the science, the bigger picture...maybe that aspect of the story could have been introduced earlier...as it stands we'll only see that if a series 2 comes about, if not we'll never see it.

Wheadon had a plan but it was i suspect a multi season plan, sadly all things point to it being cancelled...as someone pointed out Fox is not a Joss Wheadon charity...just because Firefly got a raw deal people shouldn't expect them to just OK more seasons.

I think most people feel that it's how Fox reach their decisions that is in question and how the schedule a show, dumping Dollhouse to Friday at 10pm almost guaranteed it would fail, they never promoted the show either. It's a pity as while i'm NOT a fan of Wheadon nor did i watch his other shows such as Buffy/Angel i gave Dollhouse a shot.

It kept me interested, i embraced the concept and really got into the show and supported it...as such i guess now i can understand why fans of Firefly are so pissed, and why Fox sucks!

Sherifu

Mr E wrote: »

1) Fox changing the first few episodes.
2) Not a strong enough premiere (it was crap)
3) Friday night
4) Some awful filler episodes
5) Dushku

I'd say the really weak premiere(part of Fox's meddling?) and relying on Dushku's acting range were the two biggest mistakes. About the Friday night factor; didn't someone say in the dollhouse thread that fox would be counting numbers from things like hulu too? And fillers I can live with, they were still mostly entertaining.

I hope it gets brought back but if not it was wrapped up better most shows, there isn't too much we're left wondering for now.

Biggins

Partly the problem is that it is Fox TV it was hosted on. They don't give anything a chance. Firefly, Drive, Dollhouse, there are so, so many...
Why writers and directors still stick with this network is beyond me!

Over all Dusku's acting sucked so she did not help the show.

Another aspect is that anything now that actually requires brain cells in order to follow detailed plots and sub-plots, clearly is too much for the American viewer. They are too busy texting on their phones, playing and worrying about their highest scores on their playstations while at the same rough time flicking in between dumb reality shows and seeing what the likes of Paris Hilton,Britney and Lohan are up to lately!
Thats the new dumb-down America for you...

Of course the show was about morals and where is the line to be drawn. Thats what the smoldering under-current plot was all about! It was not just about sexual exploitation (although that was a part of it) but also about how far man is willing or be allowed to go in todays society to gain what they want, should they be stopped and where should the line be drawn.
A the end of the day, clearly too intelligent questions to be asked or even put to an American audience who are too busy with more brainless things, to put their brains cells into any further higher gear.

Did I mention that Fox sucks anyway? I've given up on tuning into their shows - they are going to get canceled anyway by the dumb schmucks running the network anyway.

P.S. I have met the cast of Buffy, Firefly/Serenity, Angel, Drive, Dollhouse and they feel exactly the same way.
Nathan Fillion alone has a spitting hatred for the reality shows and outrightly refuses to have anything to do with them contract-wise, in any shape or form be it taking part, helping to advertise them or promote them by association.
His words "They are putting decent actors off our screens and killing great plots for cheap rubbish".
I know the rest of the Joss related crew all share the same ethos and feeling.

Have you not noticed lately that some are starting to move to the British/European networks for on screen TV work?

is_that_so

I think they undercooked the whole story of what the Dollhouse was supposed to be about. It did largely come across as a high class escort agency, certainly in the six I managed to watch and it was an excuse to parade the extremely limited talents of the half-dressed Dushku.

As mentioned Dushku was a big problem, probably the biggest and Fox are part responsible for that in pushing Dollhouse as Dushku. I think the scene setting, storylines and scripts in the first 5 was abysmal and did not go any way towards expanding beyond the "escort". That kind of thing would do nicely on cable where you could throw in some soft-core but then that just sounds like The Red Shoe Diaries.

TBH when half of an original run is so poor that viewers were deserting it in droves its goose was cooked. Fox can be blamed for scheduling and even meddling but you still have to deliver something enough people will watch. Whedon has some responsibility in this as well. You have to give people a reason for watching and not just the indulgences of Minear's or Whedon's imagination. I don't deny that Firefly was hard-done by but you have to put some meat on the table. I found it bizarre that Dushku and Whedon were telling people to wade through the first 5 to get to the "really good stuff". This was 5/12 or 40% of its run.

I disagree on the dumb-down as a reason, although it is a feature of TV in all parts of the world. Fringe has been renewed by Fox and that requires a good degree of attention. But what Fringe offers over Dollhouse is good scripts, a "clearish" storyline and a very fine ensemble cast.

Biggins

The dumb-down reason has been commented on by a good deal of mains-stream TV critics on both sides of the water and they are all virtually of the same concensus. American lifestyles (and sadly growing European for we are copying/creating our own similar lifestyles) are now too irractic to have as much intelligent brain fodder for them,
Of course there will always be the occasional fiction show that is intelligent and entertaining. Each network wants these on their own stations if only not to come across as a network just for the lightheaded, wandering in and out of the room viewer.

People should try a little test.
Look up tv schedules for any one station on any one day. Count the number of actual "intelligent brain required" shows that are on and then compare their numbers to the other rubbish that is on.
Then look up the same station, same time period in the day 10/20 years back.
The ratio in relation to intelligent, plot and sub-plot shows now compared to then is an indicator of how shows are losing their more substantial content on a daily basis.

As regards it being just about "a high class escort agency", part of the sub-plot was about who exactly was using who on three levels alone. Who was actually manipulating who? Was Echo being used or was she using herself as a means to an end, Was a "user" being the one in control or was he/she being the one being subsequently (or in the future) being/to be controlled? Was the backers/owners of the Dollhouse controlling just the dolls or were they actually furthering a more powerful long term agenda? Plots and sub-plots...

is_that_so

As I said I think they undercooked it. The question is whether they did enough to convince people of the importance of these subplots. I don't think they did and they overly focussed on Dushku. With Dushku at the head they were really onto a loser. I actually found I didn't really care about any subplots by the time I got to the "excellent" 6th episode and I am sure I am not alone in that. All round I think they got it wrong, Whedon, Minear and Fox. I was looking forward to this but when it eventually showed up it turned out to be a premise that was pretty easy to reject.

Richard Dower

But it's been established that Fox pretty much ordered that changes be made and that the first 5 episodes be standalone eps., "mission of the week"/look at Dushku half naked episodes.....which would explain why Wheadon gave interviews and said....wait till ep. 6 when i take over and we get the show going.

It's like Fox were trying out one type of shows in the first 5 and when that didn't work they said...OK Joss, you take over and see what happens. It's as if Fox wrote into the contract they had power over the first 5.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, americans are too retarded to appreciate great TV. This is why I'm proud of such fantastic european tv shows like the wire, battlestar galactica, the west wing, babylon 5, star trek, arrested development, south park, the sopranos, boston legal, etc..

Europe ftw.

S.M.B.

Well I gave up on it after 4 episodes cause I was bitterly disappointed with the standard of the show. And as much as people feel like blaming FOX, Joss has to take some of the responsibility too.

I might give it a second chance now that the season has wrapped up (and there's not going to be anything else to watch over the next few months.).

nix

Ah im really enjoying this show, and i think yer all a bit harsh on dushku :P

I think the show is very exciting and im only 4-5 episodes in, the show has ALOT of potential. Anybody else think the fight scenes are kickass? Realistic and gritty

Heroes is dead to me, Nothing left for me to watch if they cancel this show

Mr E

Second half of the season is much better than the first.

FYI it starts on the sci-fi channel on Tuesday week (19th).

Richard Dower

S.M.B. wrote: »

Well I gave up on it after 4 episodes cause I was bitterly disappointed with the standard of the show. And as much as people feel like blaming FOX, Joss has to take some of the responsibility too.

I might give it a second chance now that the season has wrapped up (and there's not going to be anything else to watch over the next few months.).

Trust me...episode 6 onwards is excellent, give it another shot.

Biggins

Captain Mords Spiced Bum wrote: »

yeah, americans are too retarded to appreciate great TV. This is why I'm proud of such fantastic european tv shows like the wire, battlestar galactica, the west wing, babylon 5, star trek, arrested development, south park, the sopranos, boston legal, etc..

Europe ftw.

You make a good (ironic) point.

A lot of the makers of those shows (most of which are now gone) admit right now that to attempt to set out and even suggest the format for these shows to networks, the same networks will more than likely turn them down given their complexity compared to what audiences had time for even as early as five years ago.

What we are getting more of instead is shows consisting of:

Reality documentary-style
Reality elimination/Game show
Reality self-improvement/makeover
Reality renovation
Reality social experiment
Reality dating shows
Reality talk shows
Reality hidden cameras
Reality supernatural garbage
...and so on...

The most popular reality television show yet has been CBS’s “Survivor,” which marooned participants on a desert island and promised the last person left $1 million. Over 15 million people watched the first “Survivor” that figure rose to 18 million the second week.

Currently, networks are trying to get their hands on and produce as many of these programs as audiences can gobble up. Currently airing or in production are a few of the following: “Temptation Island” (Fox), “The Mole” (ABC), “Survivor 2” (CBS), “The 1900 House” (PBS), “Making the Band” (ABC), “Big Diet” (ABC), “Boot Camp” (Fox) Laguna Beach: The Real Orange County, The Amazing Race, Project Runway, America's Next Top Model and “Chains of Love” and so blommin' on and on...

Quality shows like listed previously, have become the occasional rather than the norm' on tv and thats just sad.

Basq

Mr E wrote: »

1) Fox changing the first few episodes.
2) Not a strong enough premiere (it was crap)
3) Friday night
4) Some awful filler episodes
5) Dushku

Spot on sir.. spot on!

Dollhouse never had strong ratings to begin with... but it really pissed away any viewers it had with that opening half of the season.

I stopped watching after that dreary "backup singer" episode and only started watching again after learning it improved. Don't get me wrong.. the first half of the season was pretty damn woeful but the second half really raised the bar.

Unfortunately, it was beyond saving.

It won't get a season 2.. it's inevitable with those viewing figures. Will I miss it? Nah, not really. It's still not a patch on Whedon's other work. But I'll miss what might have came had Whedon been given a 2nd season.

Richard Dower

But isin't the reality tv trend more about money?...it's cheap tv, but being dumbed down does seem to go hand-in-hand with cheap tv. From what i have read on forums/blogs and sites the average Dollhouse viewer seems very intelligent:

http://io9.com/5247111/creating-a-mind+monster-is-harder-than-it-looks#viewcomments

Biggins

Richard Dower wrote: »

...it's cheap tv, but being dumbed down does seem to go hand-in-hand with cheap tv. From what i have read on forums/blogs and sites the average Dollhouse viewer seems very intelligent.

Can't disagree with you there. Cheap rubbish to fill the time slot gaps of once quality programmes.
Sad and depressing.

tvnutz

Captain Mords Spiced Bum wrote: »

yeah, americans are too retarded to appreciate great TV. This is why I'm proud of such fantastic european tv shows like the wire, battlestar galactica, the west wing, babylon 5, star trek, arrested development, south park, the sopranos, boston legal, etc..

Europe ftw.

You also need to look at how many people watched those shows though. The Wire got an average of 2-3million a season,as did BSG.The Sopranos got about 10million,Arrested Development got less than 5million and was cancelled. Now look at the ratings for most reality shows,the most notable being American Idol which gets about 23million viewers a week.

America might make some great shows but very few people watch them.Hence why some really good ones like Arrested Development get cancelled.

digital pimp

Dollhouse, what went wrong?

he cast Eliza Dushku.

she's an awfull actress

Basq

digital pimp wrote: »

he cast Eliza Dushku.

she's an awfull actress

Agreed.. but she is "teh sex!"

Handsome Bob

It's Whedon's fault for putting his trust in Fox again. I seem to remember Whedon saying upon Firefly's cancellation that he would never work with Fox again. What happened to make him change his mind? I guess the mighty dollar was the deciding factor for Whedon this time around.

I actually commend Fox for giving Dollhouse a second season, they have shown some new found restraint in their approach to renewing/cancelling shows.

fiveyears

Anyone know will the sci fi channel show the 13th episode. Or do I have to wait for the DVD

Dollhouse kicks ass.

Basq

fiveyears wrote: »

Anyone know will the sci fi channel show the 13th episode. Or do I have to wait for the DVD

Yep, Sci-Fi will air it..

The Mad Hatter

digital pimp wrote: »

Dollhouse, what went wrong?

he cast Eliza Dushku.

she's an awfull actress

Dushku is named as producer. Means she funded the show. It wouldn't have been made without her.

Richard Dower

basquille wrote: »

Yep, Sci-Fi will air it..

Woot!

Brian

I half hoped that Dollhouse would be cancelled so my dreams of Firefly II might somehow be reignited. "Unfortunately", both Dollhouse and Castle have been renewed, and by the time they wrap up then Summer Glau will probably have already gotten tied up with something else again.

Ah, it'll take a real miracle.

ziedth

Baza210 wrote: »

I half hoped that Dollhouse would be cancelled so my dreams of Firefly II might somehow be reignited. "Unfortunately", both Dollhouse and Castle have been renewed, and by the time they wrap up then Summer Glau will probably have already gotten tied up with something else again.

Ah, it'll take a real miracle.

Ya i know what you mean, it would be hard for a second series with the deaths in serenity, i'd say the best we'll do is a sequel to it but i really doubt it somehow.

On the plus side, castle is very good show.

DeWitt

Dollhouse is coming along nicely now. Hopefully season two will progress more along the lines of the latter half of season one. The show was just finding it's footing, not it needs to firmly establish what it is.

The no.1 watched show in the Friday night death slot.

Basq

DeWitt wrote: »

The no.1 watched show in the Friday night death slot.

Where are you getting that fact from?

thorbarry

Ok lets just forget about the fact that the show was aired on Fridays in America. This doesn't change how we view the show? SO far it has not been a quality show, the storys were not interesting, this has nothing to do with the fact that it was aired on Friday night. Maybe fox seen the pilot, seen some other episodes, then decided to put it on Friday because the quality simply was not there. Buffy, Angel, Serenity all good shows..... 3 out of 4 aint bad

DeWitt

basquille wrote: »

Where are you getting that fact from?

I can't find the article link right now, it was released a few months ago, but the la-dollhouse.org has it as their banner, and a quote from said article