Recession - We can make a difference!

MB74

Is everyone else sick an tired of reading recession, recession, recession. It's not a recession it's a prelude to the next boom period!

But how long before we get to the next boom period? I don't know about the rest of you but I don't want to wait any longer.

It recently struck me we can make the difference, the possibility is in our own hands. But in order for it to happen we need to look beyond today or tomorrow. Start looking at the companies we deal with, all our B2B dealings. This is great place to start, then we can role the concept out in our personal shopping. Lets start seeking out wholly owned Irish company and keeping our money on our economy.

My company operate in the insurance and financial sectors, and we recently started to analyse where can we show a difference with the larger multi nationals, we offer just as good a service, definitely more personal, and have access to just as many products, so how could we highlight a difference? The penny dropped when I saw something I hadn't seen for a long time, an ad for Guaranteed Irish on the tv. Money spent on insurance with my company will spend longer in the Irish economy than money spent with a multi national, surely this has to be good particularly in the current economic climate. So I started analysing my outgoings, telecoms, recruitment, stationery, accounting services, I started to look at it all to see where I can make a small difference.

Now I'm not suggestion for one moment to spend more than before, because we all have to be careful than before. But if you can find no reason not to change or can find no difference between both products/services then let the difference be Irish. This is what I believe to be the true meaning of 'to buy our way out of recession'.

Now to get carried away with myself, when you've had a good honest look within why not try convince your neighbour to do the same.

And one final last idea (something I also need to do myself), why not start telling people about your 'Irishness', carry it on your website, on your correspondence letters, emails etc, shout it from the roof tops, this company is a 100% wholly owned Irish company!!!

PS If I only manage to convince one of you to change then this mail will have been worth the time, but my aim is higher. I would be interested to hear peoples responses and actions. Roll on the next Celtic Tiger.

niceirishfella

MB74 wrote: »

And one final last idea (something I also need to do myself), why not start telling people about your 'Irishness', carry it on your website, on your correspondence letters, emails etc, shout it from the roof tops, this company is a 100% wholly owned Irish company!!!

Fine, but who cares?
Like Duness stores current strapline in their tv and radio marketing is "The difference is,we're Irish".
But like who cares because the recessional consumer does'nt - thats why LIDL and ALDI are booming and then there the queues into Newry at the weekend.
Be Bullish all you like about it,but I doubt it'll get you more sales.

sm.org

niceirishfella wrote: »

Fine, but who cares?
Like Duness stores current strapline in their tv and radio marketing is "The difference is,we're Irish".
But like who cares because the recessional consumer does'nt - thats why LIDL and ALDI are booming and then there the queues into Newry at the weekend.
Be Bullish all you like about it,but I doubt it'll get you more sales.

Actually I care and wont shop in Tescos anymore after their recent threatment of staff and plans to effectively take all Irish products off the selves.

I've started to split my shop between LIDL,Dunnes and my local farmers market my bill has gone down by about 30% and I've generated 8 new customers from talking to store managers and local traders.

I buy from them and they'll buy from me, simples .

niceirishfella

sm.org wrote: »

Actually I care

Your 1 person so your custom ain't going to make a whole lot of difference. My point is that any new marketing push has to have real credible MASS appeal.

mikemac

niceirishfella wrote: »

Like Duness stores current strapline in their tv and radio marketing is "The difference is,we're Irish".

Not me either.
Tesco is a plc and I could buy shares on Monday if I wanted.
Better to see small shareholders make money then the Dunnes and Heffernans.

I would try to buy EU products from a shelf if possible, not necessarily Irish though that's good too.

You are talking about protectionism OP. Of course there are differing opinions on whether it is better then the free trade model, but any economist will tell you free trades benefits outweigh protectionist theory.
Buying only Irish produce may benefit Irish business but it does not benefit the Irish consumer. They end up paying a higher price for products that are not say a core competence of the irish economy, or produced at a price in ireland that is reasonable and sustainable.
You have a backlash from other economies also, this is why Obama did his best to fight against protectionism. It might be the gut reaction in bad times, but what happens then if one major country starts?, all the countries do the same thing and suddenly you have no exports. Ireland has had huge trade surplus in the last 15 years, one of the best in the EU - so if we suddenly decide we arent going to import from whatever other countries in europe, they will decide the same thing and you have a viscous circle whereby if you export more then you import your economy could get drastically worse because nobody is buying from you anymore.
End result is in fact more Irish companies go out of business.

sm.org

niceirishfella wrote: »

Your 1 person so your custom ain't going to make a whole lot of difference. My point is that any new marketing push has to have real credible MASS appeal.

Actually I'm a schizophrepic.

sm.org

Deleted User wrote: »

.[/whereby if you export more then you import your economy could get drastically worse because nobody is buying from you anymore.
quote]

?? You sure about that.

gerry87

Deleted User wrote: »

You are talking about protectionism OP. Of course there are differing opinions on whether it is better then the free trade model, but any economist will tell you free trades benefits outweigh protectionist theory.
Buying only Irish produce may benefit Irish business but it does not benefit the Irish consumer. They end up paying a higher price for products that are not say a core competence of the irish economy, or produced at a price in ireland that is reasonable and sustainable.
You have a backlash from other economies also, this is why Obama did his best to fight against protectionism. It might be the gut reaction in bad times, but what happens then if one major country starts?, all the countries do the same thing and suddenly you have no exports. Ireland has had huge trade surplus in the last 15 years, one of the best in the EU - so if we suddenly decide we arent going to import from whatever other countries in europe, they will decide the same thing and you have a viscous circle whereby if you export more then you import your economy could get drastically worse because nobody is buying from you anymore.
End result is in fact more Irish companies go out of business.

Whoahhh, slow down there. OP never suggested protectionist regulations. They merely suggested that Irish people re-evaluate their spending and take whether or not a company is Irish into account.

If you can source an identical service at an identical price from an Irish company, then OP is saying swapping to the Irish service might help. This would stretch further if the person felt more strongly about it and was willing to even pay more for an Irish service.

If it was introduced as an advertising campaign on a large scale and managed to become something consumers take into account, then it could give Irish companies a competitive advantage with Irish people.

Although since the large multinationals wouldn't be able to counter-compete on the 'kiss me i'm irish' level, their only choice is in lowering prices. So net result would likely be the same % of customers with each company as is now, but the irish companies able to sustain their current prices above multinationals for a while, and if people start to lose their new found Irish pride then you could have just started a roundabout price war you can't win.

It's an interesting idea, even if it did play out like that after a certain amount of time it could have sheltered Irish companies long enough to weather the storm.

It's similar to eco/fair trade/organic products - people are willing to pay a lot more for sometimes poorer quality things. I personally never thought/cared about what chemicals were on my food, but with the amount of organic labels being plastered everywhere, there's that little niggling thing at the back of my head that makes me buy free-range organic eggs...

But it's extremely difficult to consciously alter consumer behaviour through anything other than prices/quality, especially on something as broad as this. If it was managed, it would be a great advertising achievement! Maybe some advertising agency would take it on as a patriotic little pro-bono project - make a nice little logo, a catchy campaign name, some radio jingles... ya never know!

DubTony

My mother handed me a pack of chocolate digestives I'd never seen before. I ate one and said, "What's this, McVities in a different wrapper?" Turns out they're Aldi's biscuits. She showed me the receipt - 78c. The McVities equivalent in any store is about €2. The tea I was drinking cost €1.80 for 80 teabags against almost €3 for Lyons or Barrys - and I didn't know until she showed me. Then she showed me the rest of the Aldi stuff. Top quality raspberry jam at 60% of the price of Chivers. Thick cut rashers at almost half the price. Top quality cold meats at 70% of the price of Denny stuff. I could go on all night.

Yup, I know it's unusual to hear a c-store retailer saying stuff like this, but my point is, most people don't care how Irish you are. They won't ignore real value when they see it.

gerry87

DubTony wrote: »

My mother handed me a pack of chocolate digestives I'd never seen before. I ate one and said, "What's this, McVities in a different wrapper?" Turns out they're Aldi's biscuits. She showed me the receipt - 78c. The McVities equivalent in any store is about €2. The tea I was drinking cost €1.80 for 80 teabags against almost €3 for Lyons or Barrys - and I didn't know until she showed me. Then she showed me the rest of the Aldi stuff. Top quality raspberry jam at 60% of the price of Chivers. Thick cut rashers at almost half the price. Top quality cold meats at 70% of the price of Denny stuff. I could go on all night.

Yup, I know it's unusual to hear a c-store retailer saying stuff like this, but my point is, most people don't care how Irish you are. They won't ignore real value when they see it.

Yea, irishness can't make up for a 60% price difference, but with aldi you're just taking an extreme, you can't generalise from this. If Aldi biscuits were 78c and an irish brand's were 79c, then would you consider the Irish over aldi? If irishness of the company is worth something to a consumer then they will pay for it, it just depends how much it's worth to them.

tombull82

DubTony wrote: »

They won't ignore real value when they see it.

I agree

A lot of people CAN'T afford to ignore these price's nowadays with soo many of them now unemployed/out of work and they need to get as much as possible for what little money they have regardless of where it has come from.
they can't afford the choice anymore.

So it looks like it's up to the Irish manufacturers to start to compete viciously if they want to "ride out the storm".

sm.org

sm.org wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

.[/whereby if you export more then you import your economy could get drastically worse because nobody is buying from you anymore.
quote]

?? You sure about that.

Yes see link
http://www.blonnet.com/2009/02/27/stories/2009022750190900.htm

If it was introduced as an advertising campaign on a large scale and managed to become something consumers take into account, then it could give Irish companies a competitive advantage with Irish people.

Gerry -You need to check your history my friend what you are saying has already been done and banned! The OP didnt mention protectionist regulations, but what he has mentioned is essentially the logic that starts protectionism thinking and leads to further measures like import taxes etc. The Guaranteed Irish and Buy Irish Campaigns were made illegal by the EU in the 80's because they went against the Treaty of Rome and for the reasons I mentioned above
The actual court decision over the campaign in favour of the EU:

1 . DECLARES THAT BY ORGANIZING A CAMPAIGN TO PROMOTE THE SALE AND PURCHASE OF IRISH PRODUCTS WITHIN ITS TERRITORY IRELAND HAS FAILED TO FULFIL ITS OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE TREATY ;
2.ORDERS THE DEFENDANT TO PAY THE COSTS .
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:61981J0249:EN:NOT

musicmonky

MB74 wrote: »

Is everyone else sick an tired of reading recession, recession, recession. It's not a recession it's a prelude to the next boom period!

well done. you are the next susan boyle. fantastic. congrats.

gerry87

Deleted User wrote: »

sm.org wrote: »

Yes see link
http://www.blonnet.com/2009/02/27/stories/2009022750190900.htm



Gerry -You need to check your history my friend what you are saying has already been done and banned! The OP didnt mention protectionist regulations, but what he has mentioned is essentially the logic that starts protectionism thinking and leads to further measures like import taxes etc. The Guaranteed Irish and Buy Irish Campaigns were made illegal by the EU in the 80's because they went against the Treaty of Rome and for the reasons I mentioned above
The actual court decision over the campaign in favour of the EU:

1 . DECLARES THAT BY ORGANIZING A CAMPAIGN TO PROMOTE THE SALE AND PURCHASE OF IRISH PRODUCTS WITHIN ITS TERRITORY IRELAND HAS FAILED TO FULFIL ITS OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE TREATY ;
2.ORDERS THE DEFENDANT TO PAY THE COSTS .
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:61981J0249:EN:NOT

I won't pretend I knew anything about that, I thought the guaranteed irish thing was still going.

But reading through the link you posted, the problem seemed to be that it was a government organised campeign, even if it was under the guise of a limited company. If I went out and ran ads saying buy Irish then I can't be said to be imposing protectionist measures, can I? What if no campaign was formally organised and companies just did it?

Only other point from the link is that it states the campaign had no impact, which I'd say is pretty likely.

If I went out and ran ads saying buy Irish then I can't be said to be imposing protectionist measures, can I? What if no campaign was formally organised and companies just did it?

Cant answer that for sure, I think it would depend on the scope of your advertising. I think in general Irish companies if they are dealing with Irish customers will emphasize their Irishness anyway face to face, I know I always have.
You could probably get away with it at an SME level, but for example a company like Yoplait or Jacobs would probably have the government or some regulatory body intervene if they did a buy Irish campaign as ultimately the government is responsible for implementing EU competition laws

mikemac

Yopliat isn't Irish.
Sure look at the name, it was started in France. Possibly owned by General Mills now, not sure

Glenlisk are Irish though

You are correct you can't have a blatant buy Irish campaign.

But you can have guaranteed Irish, you probably recognize the symbol
http://www.guaranteedirish.ie/

Saruman

Either is Jacobs Irish. In fact I can not think of an Irish biscuit brand (apart from small scale), I doubt even the Irish owned stores own brands are Irish.
I mean that in the same way the Guinness is no longer Irish.

Bellies

I agree with tombull82, times are tough, the money isn't there anymore, if it is I don't think they're willing to spend it on Irish products in Irish stores!

Interestingly enough, the majority of the meat in Aldi are source from Kerry Group!! Yup!!

Personally there is no difference between the quality of the products in Aldi, Dunnes, and Tesco

Are dunnes allowed advertise "Because we're Irish" at the end of the adverts?

Wasn't there a take over bid a few months back proposed by ASDA, who are owned by Walmart.

Here: http://blog.lookandtaste.com/asda-to-take-over-dunnes-stores/

Let the price wars get worse!!

Saruman

Saruman wrote: »

Either is Jacobs Irish. .

Yopliat isn't Irish.

I used to drive by the factory in wicklow/wexford when I was kid always thought it was irish!....and jacobs! how can that not be irish!...right then time for some protectionist measures...:D

antoinolachtnai

If I remember correctly, the Jacobs brand in Ireland is owned by a separate company from the Jacobs brand in the UK. They both have access to the secret knowledge, I believe.

Irish companies can say what they like. The problem is if the government (through its various appendages) starts promoting Irish goods over and above the goods of other EU states.

Mr.Boots

Like previous posters said.....people arnt thinking that far ahead....they need food on the table now and at the right price...thats why they are going up north.
I think its up to our goverment (and for us to tell them what we want) to give the country some leadership on this matter.
The Guaranteed Irish logo did work in its day....lets bring it back in force.
Cross border shopping has to be slashed by reducing costs down south (vat and duty)
The goverment need to stop focussing on big multinationals coming to ireland.....Irelands biggest employer is small buisness, the ones who are hurting most now.
The govermant arnt going to pull us out if this recession so stop waiting round for something to happen....we have to do it ourselves, elections coming up....let them know what we want.
I see irelands future in tourisim, small business and highly specialit homegrown industries.
At the moment their is no real incentive for an irish person to start their own business.
I could go on and on and on....and on.....

antoinolachtnai

There is no difference in VAT and duty between Ireland and Northern Ireland on food items.

To be competitive in tourism, prices (and ultimately wages) will need to come way down.

byrne0f56789

Ultimately the marketplace will decide. It all comes down to value for money. Right now, Northern Ireland offers much better value. You have to factor the FX on GBP which is quite good for us right now. However, if GBP goes up in the future we may see Northern shoppers coming here like we did in the late 90s early 2000s.

I think the VAT rate is another factor that we just can't get around. A lot of people are buying electrical goods in the North while doing their weekly shop. This all adds to the total cost savings for a trip accorss the border. The reality is that Southern retailers are playing catch up.

For instance, Newry is a retail town. Businesses there seem to be a step above their Southern counterparts on most levels. They never experienced the "Celtic Tiger" so they needed to become very good at managing their businesses, particularly at the customer service level. Now that the town is booming they are reaping the rewards. Fair play to them.

It's up to Southern businesses to up their game and the recent evidence suggests that they are doing that. We have to remember that the real winner is the consumer.

MB74

Wow!!

Good to see my original post provoked a debate. Although some people were surprisingly negative.

A couple of thoughts seem to have gone astray along the way. Firstly and most definitely I did not suggest protectionism, obviously El Rifle things read differently in Xanadu! I was really looking at the business sector firstly but the fact that the debate is looking at the comsumer end is no harm.

What I simply suggested was that if there is no difference in the products or services then let the fact that is might be Irish be the difference.

I work in the insurance broking sector which has a large multinational presence, the top three players are foreign companies, all repatriating profits made up of our money. In 95% of the policies they provide there is no apparent difference in price, service or product provided. So why go to them. If this repatriated profits was kept in our economy then it would lead to more jobs for your brother, sister, parent, neighbour, someone you know. I'm sure the same could be said for other industries, maybe the legal industry, estate agents, stationery, recruitment. Would love to hear something similar from another industry, a reason for us all to review that part of our budgets.

This is nothing more than a call to action for the civic minded individuals who want to give something back to the economy. Our dependence on others to run our business has been a major factor in how badly we have felt the effects of the recession.

For those of you who have negative feels about what I have said, you entitled to your opinions but why try discourage someone else from reviewing their outgoings when there is always a chance that spend might end up in your pocket! I really hope you are not depending on it.

VO

Deleted User wrote: »

sm.org wrote: »

Yes see link
http://www.blonnet.com/2009/02/27/stories/2009022750190900.htm



Gerry -You need to check your history my friend what you are saying has already been done and banned! The OP didnt mention protectionist regulations, but what he has mentioned is essentially the logic that starts protectionism thinking and leads to further measures like import taxes etc. The Guaranteed Irish and Buy Irish Campaigns were made illegal by the EU in the 80's because they went against the Treaty of Rome and for the reasons I mentioned above
The actual court decision over the campaign in favour of the EU:

1 . DECLARES THAT BY ORGANIZING A CAMPAIGN TO PROMOTE THE SALE AND PURCHASE OF IRISH PRODUCTS WITHIN ITS TERRITORY IRELAND HAS FAILED TO FULFIL ITS OBLIGATIONS UNDER THE TREATY ;
2.ORDERS THE DEFENDANT TO PAY THE COSTS .
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:61981J0249:EN:NOT

When the above ruling was made Guaranteed Irish was funded by the Irish Government. Following this ruling, Guaranteed Irish became a not for profit Limited company and has been trading as such for more than 20 years and continues to do so. It is now funded solely by its members and remains a very strong marketing tool.

In relation to Irish Products , the more Irish Products you buy the more jobs are kept in Ireland. If we switch to imported products more and more people become unemployed. It is a vicious circle. The new campaign by guaranteed irish is a great camaign - lets keep as many jobs a spossibel at home - we certianly need them.

DubTony

gerry87 wrote: »

Yea, irishness can't make up for a 60% price difference, but with aldi you're just taking an extreme, you can't generalise from this. If Aldi biscuits were 78c and an irish brand's were 79c, then would you consider the Irish over aldi? If irishness of the company is worth something to a consumer then they will pay for it, it just depends how much it's worth to them.

Over the last 10 to 15 years nobody most people didn't give a sh*te whether the stuff they bought came from Ireland, China or Outer flippin' Mongolia. I don't think that'll change much. The young guy shopping in the supermarket in 1996 for his new wife and new kid is in his mid 30's now and all he's known is spend, spend, spend and brand, brand, brand. Today he may well be trying to provide for a couple of growing teenagers, pay a mortgage that more than likely isn't his first, and service a couple of car loans. He's shelving the social life and focusing on saving money just in case he's next onto the dole heap (not quite a scrap heap yet ).

It has taken a major shift in peoples thinking but they've decided that value is what's important now. You get this in the discounters, and nobody really gives a rats arse where the goods come from. The fact that about 40% of the stuff is Irish doesn't matter. What does matter is price.

As to whether or not the biscuits are Irish, it helps, but imo price is where it's at these days, Personally, I go for quality so if the discounted stuff is good, I won't knock it (irrespective of where it comes from).

If Kerry Foods can put rashers on the shelf and see them sold at 40% less than their branded stuff, good enough for them. Maybe others can do the same. I'm sure the discounters would be delighted to have 100% of their goods sourced in Ireland if it meant they could sell them at the right price and get their margin. It's up to companies to get their goods to market at the best price possible and drive the business on. I think we got "Tiger Happy" here and more than a little bit complacent.

gwhiz

In short, lone-parent, three kids, lost my job three months ago, cant get another for love nor money...... BUY IRISH my ass..... I have to buy the cheapest food I can get be it Lidl, Aldi, Dunnes etc etc.... dont give a **** if its manufactured in fooking china once it cheap..... END OF

MB74

gwhiz wrote: »

In short, lone-parent, three kids, lost my job three months ago, cant get another for love nor money...... BUY IRISH my ass..... I have to buy the cheapest food I can get be it Lidl, Aldi, Dunnes etc etc.... dont give a **** if its manufactured in fooking china once it cheap..... END OF

Sorry to hear about your predicament gwhiz, I wouldn't suggest you do anything different in your situation. I know several post since may have suggested otherwise but in my original post I never suggested pay extra to buy Irish. What I did say was that if the price is the same and the product or service is the same then why not buy Irish?

gwhiz

MB74 wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your predicament gwhiz, I wouldn't suggest you do anything different in your situation. I know several post since may have suggested otherwise but in my original post I never suggested pay extra to buy Irish. What I did say was that if the price is the same and the product or service is the same then why not buy Irish?

Sorry wasnt getting at you.... Your post was excellent and you made some very valid points, I would much prefer to buy Irish and I do whenever possible. For eg. much prefer to buy Irish meat products but usually only get these when they are near the sell by date and are half price!!! also, my one indulgence is my Kerrygold butter, it cant be beaten. I do buy this but I hide it in the bottom of the fridge and let the kids use the cheap spread. They dont know the difference (ha ha). Give me reasonably good quality cheap Irish products and i will fill my trolley with them. Whatever happened to the "Guaranteed Irish" logo they used to display on the food packaging... ???? do they still put this on Irish products????