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So if God...........

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  • 08-05-2009 8:20pm
    #1
    tolteq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭


    created the world. then who created god?


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    #2
    Joe1919
    Registered Users Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    According to Eriugena, God created himself.

    http://books.google.ie/books?id=hUOGlDTtqroC&pg=PA403&lpg=PA403&dq=eriugena+god+self+created&source=bl&ots=cgik10MZSv&sig=W5qF0xOKzCPPcii-1AIHGth9YH8&hl=en&ei=eoYESvbsL9XOjAeDsriVCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9


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    #3
    Joycey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭Joycey


    tolteq wrote: »
    created the world. then who created god?

    I did


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    #4
    O'Coonassa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    tolteq wrote: »
    created the world. then who created god?

    It is Unbegotten, the Primal Ground, The Source.

    Respect what It has done. Marvellous work :D


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    #5
    nobodythere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭nobodythere


    ............what the hell is god?


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    #6
    O'Coonassa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭O'Coonassa


    grasshopa wrote: »
    ............what the hell is god?

    It is.


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    #7
    the roo
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭the roo


    so if god .....CARED


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    #8
    moviesrme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭moviesrme


    Peole retorting with one liners because it's of course unanswerable.

    Its an intriguing thought you effectively pose though viz. no matter how intelligent you are etc Einstein or whatever you might eventually describe evenything from the big bang or equivalent newer theory of hte start of the universe but you will always be stuck with what created that and so on. And I think this applies no matter how sophisticated the argument ie. It must have come from nothing eventually.
    Religion as you allude is no answer either as as you say "who created God?"

    I have mused before to myself that theer is no (very little) true undersanding in the world; it;s all just observation leading to fundamental rules described leading to manipulation and the use by humans for their benefit. But what actually causes A to lead to B remains a mystery.
    Creationists say God created man QED Dawkins goes to great pains to argue evolution describes ow man arises from that which existed after the big bang so you might say a mechanical system produces man from the basic of basic matter according to Dawkins therefore that original matter is as wonderful as man but he has nothing to say re were that original matter came form. He does of course know this and says its an emergent situation and science will prevail eventually and that's fine.

    The whole thing is so unsatisfyinh though.

    Actually I just had another thought. My paragraph above states there is no understanding just observation the implication being we have to dig deeper; steup up to the plate ; max the envelope to get the real deal but there can be no real deal???! No matter how fundamentally you describe anything there will always be "What causes that?" Jesus maybe this is why scientists cant find the fundamental units of matter they just get smaller things; quarks, bosons etc. I gotta call CERN and tell them to quit!


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    #9
    8kvscdpglqnyr4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 413 ✭✭8kvscdpglqnyr4


    Turtles all the way down ... :D
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down


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    #10
    AlkalineAcid
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭AlkalineAcid


    If God was created by something then what created that which created God?


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    #11
    IrishSerf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭IrishSerf


    Probably one of the turtles...but who created the turtles?


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    #12
    AlkalineAcid
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭AlkalineAcid


    IrishSerf wrote: »
    Probably one of the turtles...but who created the turtles?

    An infinite number of turtles!


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    #13
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    God or Yahweh had a father named El, before El there was only El. He also has a brother named Baal, but in the struggle for power Baal lost.

    Serious example which sums up my thoughts on this, I believe the universe may have been created through a self generating loop type thing. For example when Skynet sends a terminator back into the past it causes its own existence in the future.


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    #14
    garrincha62
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭garrincha62


    nyarlothothep wrote: »
    God or Yahweh had a father named El, before El there was only El. He also has a brother named Baal, but in the struggle for power Baal lost.

    Serious example which sums up my thoughts on this, I believe the universe may have been created through a self generating loop type thing. For example when Skynet sends a terminator back into the past it causes its own existence in the future.


    Have we learned nothing? It was Bill Cosby's great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great Grandfather's mate Cliff.


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    #15
    TiwstaSista
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭TiwstaSista


    If someone created GOD then there will be a greater GOD. Nobody created him
    because he is the only creator and GOD and that is why we use the word "GOD" not "GODS". :D


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    #16
    nobodythere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭nobodythere


    TiwstaSista wrote: »
    If someone created GOD then there will be a greater GOD. Nobody created him
    because he is the only creator and GOD and that is why we use the word "GOD" not "GODS". :D

    Elohim is plural ;)


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    #17
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    God must be the first cause or else he is not God.


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    #18
    thebouldwhacker
    Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭thebouldwhacker


    tolteq wrote: »
    so if god created the world. then who created god?


    'god'= physics ->physics created the world (lets not be local here) and everything else ->Man created god as man didnt know about physics-> physics = god.


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    #19
    stevej
    Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭stevej


    God is the only necessary being - we are all contingent. We are contingent on our parents having created us etc., just as they are on their parents etc........

    You can keep going back but not to an infinite regress......it must start somewhere.

    If we see a ball rolling down the road, something had to start that - it can't happen by itself, and it's the same with creation. Nothing can appear from nothing. Something must have started the chain, and that something has to be a necessary being that can't have been created itself.

    As someone already said, if we say a big bang started everything, then where did the big bang come from? What caused that? Everything must have a cause in order to realise an effect.


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    #20
    5318008!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭5318008!


    IrishSerf wrote: »
    Probably one of the turtles...but who created the turtles?

    I thought they were created in some sort of nuclear accident in the new york sewers?


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    #21
    Ruskie4Rent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Ruskie4Rent


    tolteq wrote: »
    ....then who created god?

    We did!


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    #22
    marabhfuil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭marabhfuil


    I saw god once. He was driving a Mercedez and he was crying


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    #23
    marabhfuil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46 ✭marabhfuil


    Man... God is there alright. He's just getting too much diversion out of us to interviene. In fact we are teaching him. We explain to him what things are. For example he can't feel sorrow so he experiences it through us-though he never actually feels sorry. Its all a big game of his divise. really it doesn't matter to him what you do. your actions only affect each other. If ye get me.

    Whats that?... Okay... He says to stop thinking about him coz your confusing him... okay... He says just get on with it and have more fun... okay...he likes that he says...:rolleyes:


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    #24
    X AcT X EviL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭X AcT X EviL


    thebouldwhacker wrote: »
    'god'= physics ->physics created the world (lets not be local here) and everything else ->Man created god as man didnt know about physics-> physics = god.

    I couldn't put it better myself. No seriously, I couldn't.


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    #25
    tech77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭tech77


    AlkalineAcid wrote: »
    If God was created by something then what created that which created God?

    Hold on, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
    Let's do this thing one step at a time:

    So anyone got an answer to the OP yet.
    Anyone??

    Then we'll do yours.
    OK?


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    #26
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    tolteq wrote: »
    created the world. then who created god?

    Well first of all, what "god" are you talking about here?


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    #27
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    stevej wrote: »
    God is the only necessary being - we are all contingent. We are contingent on our parents having created us etc., just as they are on their parents etc........

    You can keep going back but not to an infinite regress......it must start somewhere.

    If we see a ball rolling down the road, something had to start that - it can't happen by itself, and it's the same with creation. Nothing can appear from nothing. Something must have started the chain, and that something has to be a necessary being that can't have been created itself.

    As someone already said, if we say a big bang started everything, then where did the big bang come from? What caused that? Everything must have a cause in order to realise an effect.

    Everything requires a cause.

    Except one thing.

    Brilliant.

    And what is the something that can't have been created made of?


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    #28
    IrelandSpirit
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    X AcT X EviL wrote: »
    I couldn't put it better myself. No seriously, I couldn't.

    Nor I! That's it in a nutshell. Have ya looked into Nassim Haramein's work? Physicist. He's working on a unified field theory based on a fractalized universe, i.e. on the old alchemical principle of 'the part contains the whole' or 'as Above so Bellow.'


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    #29
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    stevej wrote: »
    God is the only necessary being - we are all contingent. We are contingent on our parents having created us etc., just as they are on their parents etc........

    You can keep going back but not to an infinite regress......it must start somewhere.

    If we see a ball rolling down the road, something had to start that - it can't happen by itself, and it's the same with creation. Nothing can appear from nothing. Something must have started the chain, and that something has to be a necessary being that can't have been created itself.

    As someone already said, if we say a big bang started everything, then where did the big bang come from? What caused that? Everything must have a cause in order to realise an effect.

    Why does it have to start somewhere, our minds may tell us that things must have beginnings but what if somethings have no beginings?
    What if it they just always there? (Seems more plausible than something from nothing)


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    #30
    IrelandSpirit
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    Malty_T wrote: »
    Why does it have to start somewhere, our minds may tell us that things must have beginnings but what if somethings have no beginings?
    What if it they just always there? (Seems more plausible than something from nothing)


    Yep, hard to put into words why, but that's the way I see it too. The universe is ever-expanding into infinity and ever-contracting into infinity - everything always was. Our minds, locked within a binary paradigm, will never completely accept this.
    Beyond the binary paradigm though, we do, all of us - comprehension is total without the need for 'beginnings' or 'endings' - and that direct experience of our totality, is that which we call 'God.'

    God is not an old bearded fella sitting on a cloud... I duno what Micheal Angelo was smoking when he painted that!

    But the direct experience of God, of our totality and interconnectedness with all things, with creation itself, that is God - and that which we all, deep down, yearn to return to, I think...

    Does that make sense?


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    #31
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    IrelandSpirit wrote: »
    Yep, hard to put into words why, but that's the way I see it too.
    Beyond the binary paradigm though, we do, all of us - comprehension is total without the need for 'beginnings' or 'endings' - and that direct experience of our totality, is that which we call 'God.'

    God is not an old bearded fella sitting on a cloud... I duno what Micheal Angelo was smoking when he painted that!

    But the direct experience of God, of our totality and interconnectedness with all things, with creation itself, that is God - and that which we all, deep down, yearn to return to, I think...

    Does that make sense?
    The universe is ever-expanding into infinity and ever-contracting into infinity - everything always was. Our minds, locked within a binary paradigm, will never completely accept this.

    Put in words better than I could anyway, now let's try layman terms ;)

    Not sure about the whole return to thing though; I love life for what it is - energy sounds plain old boring.


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